Calling All Christians/Catholics/Religious people.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

We interrupt this thread for a public service announcement.

 

DON'T

FUCKING

DO

THIS!!!

 

grrr.

 

We now return you to the original thread.

could

not

resist

 

Okay, it's out of my system

[Guest Dmann2000]

My opinion, and belief in response to those who ask "why does God allow bad things to happen?"

 

He doesn't

 

However, he does allow people to allow those things to happen. You see it's designed to see whether or not we humans will allow such attrocities to exist in our world and allow a cycle of violence to continue. Or if we'll actually listen to the words of God and messages of love and Jesus and take a stand to say 'no more'.

 

Sadly I think very few people have the courage to turn away from violence. But don't blame God for that blame man. Because if God did finally one day stop something catastrophic from happening, and made his presence tangible and visable to the world, I think people would get lazy and expect God to do everything for them.

 

"Hey God get my cat out of this tree. Fix my car battery. Pick up my kids from school."

 

I think if more people actually read the Bible/Torah/Koran (including those pious moral watchdogs) and applied those teachings to how they act with others, things could be better.

 

Can anyone honestly say to me that there's something wrong with the 10 commandments? Or the Golden Rule?

 

Me, I'm just your average Catholic trying to do his best in this world...

 

...because all this is far from over

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Can anyone honestly say to me that there's something wrong with the 10 commandments?

"There's a town in Alabama that wants to abolish all laws except the Ten Commandments."

"I saw it."

"Well, they're going to have a problem."

"Because the Constitution prohibits religious activity in any form connected to government?"

"Good point. Two problems."

"Sam, I'm busy here."

"I just mean some of those Commandments are pretty hard to enforce. Coveting thy neighbour's wife, for example. How are you going to enforce that one?"

"Sam!"

 

"Leo, did you know there's a town in Alabama that wants to..."

"Yes."

"And what do you think?"

"Coveting thy neighbour's wife is going to cause some problems."

"That's what I said. Plus, if I were arrested for coveting my neighbour's wife, when asked about it, I'd probably bear false witness."

[Guest big Dante Cruz]

Nice touch, Marney.

 

The Ten Commandments are a moral code people are supposed to live by. Breaking them is bad. However, some of them you can't verify. Some you can. But whether or not they can be proved isn't the point. If you follow the Old Testament (which is, for those that have been under a rock for the last couple thousand years) Jews, Christians and Islam. Islam.... thou shalt not kill... hmmm....

[Guest EricMM]

The old testiment also contains Leviticus which is the most often quoted chapter by people who have agendas which are less than good.

 

I just tend to ignore that whole book (of the bible)

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Well, if God did this to promote peace and religon it backfired. More people died in the retaliation in Afghanistan than in the 9/11 attacks. There is a GREATER level of distrust between Americans and our relationships with our allies (Save the Good Ole' UK.) have been stressed to the breaking point.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Somewhat more seriously.

 

he does allow people to allow those things to happen

This is morally the same as allowing it to happen Himself, which is morally the same as doing it Himself.

 

You see it's designed to see whether or not we humans will allow such attrocities to exist in our world and allow a cycle of violence to continue.  Or if we'll actually listen to the words of God and messages of love and Jesus and take a stand to say 'no more'.

So the world is God's sandbox and pain and torture and death are just experiments? Whatfuckingever. If He can prevent evil, He has a responsibility to do so. Granting people free will doesn't absolve him of responsibility. It's like dumping a bunch of children in a big box with flamethrowers and broken glass, and when they get hurt, saying, "Hey, I didn't do it. They made their own choices."

Fuck you. You set it up. You are responsible.

 

But don't blame God for that blame man... if God did finally one day stop something catastrophic from happening... people would get lazy and expect God to do everything for them.

Wouldn't it have been easier not to create such a fucked-up world in the first place? If He's such a bum that He can't be bothered to care for His creation, He shouldn't have started it.

 

No. I reject this degenerate and cowardly nonsense in toto. When I die, God's going to damn well explain Himself to me, and He'd better have a damn good excuse.

[Guest danielisthor]

The old testiment also contains Leviticus which is the most often quoted chapter by people who have agendas which are less than good.

 

I just tend to ignore that whole book (of the bible)

Correct me if i am wrong ( i could go look this up myself, if i had that much time here at work) but doesn't a good part of the book of Leviticus have to do with sacrifices to God?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Somewhat more seriously.

 

he does allow people to allow those things to happen

This is morally the same as allowing it to happen Himself, which is morally the same as doing it Himself.

 

You see it's designed to see whether or not we humans will allow such attrocities to exist in our world and allow a cycle of violence to continue.  Or if we'll actually listen to the words of God and messages of love and Jesus and take a stand to say 'no more'.

So the world is God's sandbox and pain and torture and death are just experiments? Whatfuckingever. If He can prevent evil, He has a responsibility to do so. Granting people free will doesn't absolve him of responsibility. It's like dumping a bunch of children in a big box with flamethrowers and broken glass, and when they get hurt, saying, "Hey, I didn't do it. They made their own choices."

Fuck you. You set it up. You are responsible.

 

But don't blame God for that blame man... if God did finally one day stop something catastrophic from happening... people would get lazy and expect God to do everything for them.

Wouldn't it have been easier not to create such a fucked-up world in the first place? If He's such a bum that He can't be bothered to care for His creation, He shouldn't have started it.

 

No. I reject this degenerate and cowardly nonsense in toto. When I die, God's going to damn well explain Himself to me, and He'd better have a damn good excuse.

You do realize, that if there is a God, then you realistically can't tell him what his responsibilities are since you don't know them, him, or his plan yet.

 

 

I think it's a TAD arrogent of you to tell the creator of the universe (or universes) what to do since all you seem to be is an attractive lesbian who enjoys starting arguments.

 

Not that that's a bad thing, mind you.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Levitcus involves how the Jews were supposed to live, while in the desert. It covers EVERYTHING although we, as a civilization have outgrown many of the laws.

[Guest danielisthor]

Levitcus involves how the Jews were supposed to live, while in the desert. It covers EVERYTHING although we, as a civilization have outgrown many of the laws.

thank your very much, when i get home i shall investigate further.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Daniel I have a question:

 

You mark out for all that Miami stuff...

 

and not for Miami Vice?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

You do realize, that if there is a God, then you realistically can't tell him what his responsibilities are since you don't know them, him, or his plan yet.

I'm giving Him the benefit of the doubt, which is more than He deserves. He has harboured, succoured, and aided terrorists and murderers for millenia, and as my President said, we shall not distinguish between terrorists and those who harbour them.

God is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient. It is clearly within His power to prevent suffering and the loss of innocent life, and for reasons unknown He has refused to do so. For these crimes, He will answer to me.

I can't see why He would do any of these things, but I can't arrest Him either. I can't hear Him and I don't know if He can hear me. That's why I'm willing to wait before passing judgement on Him.

 

I think it's a TAD arrogent of you to tell the creator of the universe (or universes) what to do since all you seem to be is an attractive lesbian who enjoys starting arguments.

I'm an American. That means my leaders are accountable to me.

That includes God.

[Guest danielisthor]

Daniel I have a question:

 

You mark out for all that Miami stuff...

 

and not for Miami Vice?

Crockett and Tubbs were the bomb man. Fast cars, hot chicks, Edward James Olmos as Lt. Castillo. Watched every Friday night.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

You do realize, that if there is a God, then you realistically can't tell him what his responsibilities are since you don't know them, him, or his plan yet.

I'm giving Him the benefit of the doubt, which is more than He deserves. He has harboured, succoured, and aided terrorists and murderers for millenia, and as my President said, we shall not distinguish between terrorists and those who harbour them.

God is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient. It is clearly within His power to prevent suffering and the loss of innocent life, and for reasons unknown He has refused to do so. For these crimes, He will answer to me.

I can't see why He would do any of these things, but I can't arrest Him either. I can't hear Him and I don't know if He can hear me. That's why I'm willing to wait before passing judgement on Him.

 

I think it's a TAD arrogent of you to tell the creator of the universe (or universes) what to do since all you seem to be is an attractive lesbian who enjoys starting arguments.

I'm an American. That means my leaders are accountable to me.

That includes God.

1. Once upon a time there was a sculptor, and he made a great statue. After a while he was upset with cracks he could see in it, so he destroyed it.

 

Doesn't he have the right to? Didn't he make it?

 

 

As for as the terrorists, think of a Jackie Chan Movie. At the end when Jackie is fighting the Big Boss on top of a train and he sees a tunnel coming up and he smiles. Everything that has passed between them is gone, because Jackie knows in a few seconds BB wil be headless.

 

That's just a head wound! What's hell going to be like for these terrorists he's "condoneing." Remeber Marney: You reap what you sow.

 

 

2. This cracked me up.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

1. Once upon a time there was a sculptor, and he made a great statue. After a while he was upset with cracks he could see in it, so he destroyed it.

Doesn't he have the right to? Didn't he make it?

Are you seriously comparing an inanimate piece of stone with human life? Your metaphor is disgusting, tawdry, and simplistic. Go tell the families of the 3000 who died on 9/11 that God had the right to take their wives, husbands, sons, and daughters from them, so they shouldn't be upset about it.

Condescending little fuckheaded prick.

 

As for as the terrorists, think of a Jackie Chan Movie. At the end when Jackie is fighting the Big Boss on top of a train and he sees a tunnel coming up and he smiles... Jackie knows in a few seconds BB wil be headless... What's hell going to be like for these terrorists he's "condoneing." ...You reap what you sow.

Oh, very fucking comforting, dipshit. Unfortunately, there's not a scrap of evidence for this, and it still doesn't answer the question of why God allows "the Big Boss" to exist in the first place. He's all-knowing, remember? He should be able to stop evil before it happens. When people have the ability to prevent a crime and refuse to do so, we call them accessories and we throw them in jail. You can hold your God to a lower standard if you like. I demand something better from mine.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

1. Once upon a time there was a sculptor, and he made a great statue. After a while he was upset with cracks he could see in it, so he destroyed it.

Doesn't he have the right to? Didn't he make it?

Are you seriously comparing an inanimate piece of stone with human life? Your metaphor is disgusting, tawdry, and simplistic. Go tell the families of the 3000 who died on 9/11 that God had the right to take their wives, husbands, sons, and daughters from them, so they shouldn't be upset about it.

Condescending little fuckheaded prick.

 

As for as the terrorists, think of a Jackie Chan Movie. At the end when Jackie is fighting the Big Boss on top of a train and he sees a tunnel coming up and he smiles... Jackie knows in a few seconds BB wil be headless... What's hell going to be like for these terrorists he's "condoneing." ...You reap what you sow.

Oh, very fucking comforting, dipshit. Unfortunately, there's not a scrap of evidence for this, and it still doesn't answer the question of why God allows "the Big Boss" to exist in the first place. He's all-knowing, remember? He should be able to stop evil before it happens. When people have the ability to prevent a crime and refuse to do so, we call them accessories and we throw them in jail. You can hold your God to a lower standard if you like. I demand something better from mine.

Well, for one thing, there's no evidence of a God SO WHAT'S YOUR FUCKING POINT? It's called FAITH, if you believe in a higher power then you need it. Sometimes you have to believe in something.

 

 

Oh, I guess a better metaphor would have been an ant farm then. I mean seriously if you've met God, great but if you haven't who's to say what his opinion is of us. We have the prophets, Jesus, and faith leaders to go on.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Marney, do you really want God to intervene everytime something bad happens? That stops us from growing as a race because all we would do is wait for God to do everything for us all the time.

 

I wouldn't want to live like that.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

First of all, kindly don't quote my entire post, especially if it's right above your reply.

 

Second, my "FUCKING POINT" is that from what God's PR department (prophets, Jesus, and faith leaders - which frankly could use a little work) has stated, God exists, and God has the ability to prevent evil but refuses to do so. PR spokesmen have not given an excuse for this that satisfies me.

 

a better metaphor would have been an ant farm

It's a much worse metaphor. If it's accurate, and we really have no more significance to God than ants, why should I worship Him? We don't love the ants. God is supposed to love us.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

do you really want God to intervene everytime something bad happens? That stops us from growing as a race

A slightly better argument on the surface, but then God is willing to countenance suffering and evil for the sake of improvement He could bring about with a wave of His hand.

 

Nope. Doesn't work either. From everything I see, God messed up.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Hey, I believe that God has a plan for us. What that is, I don't know, but i know it's a plan.

 

 

You convieniently ignored answering my question: Would you really want God to just make everything all bright and rosy and cheery and solve all our problems?

 

 

I don't.

 

 

Oh, and God has the "right" to do what he wants. He didn't kill anyone at 9/11. Perhaps something good will come of it that don't yet see. But, let me say this, I think that second guessing the man who GAVE us life in the first place because he doesn't help us everytime we get into a scrape and a few of us die is just plain ungrateful.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

If 9/11 was an act of the Judeo-Christian god, then I'll eat my computer.

 

Oops, I didn't see that this was for people who actually believed in this.

 

Fo sheez,

Kotzenjunge

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

do you really want God to intervene everytime something bad happens? That stops us from growing as a race

A slightly better argument on the surface, but then God is willing to countenance suffering and evil for the sake of improvement He could bring about with a wave of His hand.

 

Nope. Doesn't work either. From everything I see, God messed up.

Sorry, I didn't see this, my fault, .

 

If God messed up why shouldn't he just kill us all, and start over?

 

Oh, I forgot, you don't know God, that's right.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Kotz, we were arguing wether God should have interveined (sp?) I don't think God caused it.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

You convieniently ignored answering my question

I didn't ignore your question. I answered it as soon as I saw it. See the next post.

 

I believe that God has a plan for us. What that is, I don't know, but i know it's a plan.

I hope that's true. Again, that's why I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

He didn't kill anyone at 9/11.

Assuming He could have stopped the hijackers, which is implicit in the definition of God, He is morally culpable.

 

Perhaps something good will come of it that don't yet see.

The ends do not justify the means when the means are deliberate cold-blooded murder.

 

But, let me say this, I think that second guessing the man who GAVE us life in the first place because he doesn't help us everytime we get into a scrape and a few of us die is just plain ungrateful.

This is another reason I give Him the benefit of the doubt. There's a lot of beauty and good in the world. I'm grateful to God for it. Now He has to explain the ugliness and the evil.

 

If God messed up why shouldn't he just kill us all, and start over?

I'd like to believe God isn't that evil.

 

Oh, I forgot, you don't know God, that's right.

And neither do you.

[Guest danielisthor]

I don't blame god for much, but i do blame him for my allergy attacks every spring and fall. He created the plants that produce the pollen that wrecks half my year. bastard.

 

JK

[Guest Retro Rob]

Well, for one thing, there's no evidence of a God SO WHAT'S YOUR FUCKING POINT? It's called FAITH, if you believe in a higher power then you need it. Sometimes you have to believe in something.

 

I think that first sentence there about there not being a God, so what was the point of this debate, also applies to you. As for having to believe in something...the only thing I have ever need to belief in was myself.

 

Oh, I guess a better metaphor would have been an ant farm then. I mean seriously if you've met God, great but if you haven't who's to say what his opinion is of us. We have the prophets, Jesus, and faith leaders to go on.

 

I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything when it comes to Catholicism, but didn't Jesus and the prophets supposedly talk about how God was so great and loving. How he was compassionate and ever forgiving. How he cared for all of us. ETC. So going by those statements about the almighty one, he doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would allow thousands of INNOCENT people to die for his own benefit. Yet, that is pretty much what happened if there really is a god to begin with.

 

Way too many hypotheticals in this argument.

[Guest danielisthor]

I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything when it comes to Catholicism, but didn't Jesus and the prophets supposedly talk about how God was so great and loving. How he was compassionate and ever forgiving. How he cared for all of us. ETC. So going by those statements about the almighty one, he doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would allow thousands of INNOCENT people to die for his own benefit.

Then again, a good portion of the old Testament is about the "WRATH of GOD". maybe he hit a mid life crises or became a grandparent or something. They always seem to treat their grandkids better than their own kids. Jews were his kids and the Christians/Catholics are his grandkids. Thus get the nicer kinder side of God.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

1. Yes, I know. You missed mt post on that. I guess we're even.

 

2. I can't imagine being here just for divine amusement... logically there must be SOME purpose to our existance.

 

3. Ah... but maybe he helped us and we didn't listen. Maybe he sent something to the FBI and they didn't know. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

 

4. I agree with this also. A lot of the evil in this world is our ancestors fault, and God made a promise to the first humans that they would have free will. He's kept his end of the bargain.

 

5. I wasn't serious. I was just saying that if God was omnipotent he would know ahead of time if he screwed up and fixed it. I don't think we have enough info to debate whether he has a plan. I don't think he screwed up.

 

6. Ah.. but YOU seem to think that he should have stopped 9/11, and there was no reason not too. Perhaps this is all part of the plan?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

I can't imagine being here just for divine amusement... logically there must be SOME purpose to our existance.

This is not logic. This is hope.

 

Ah... but maybe he helped us and we didn't listen. Maybe he sent something to the FBI and they didn't know. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

This is the most offensive and stupidest line of crap that emerges from blind Christianity. The Lord works in mysterious ways, so He can't ever fail. If something bad happens, well, He tried to help us but we didn't listen so it's our fault. Bullshit. This is called an unfalsifiable postulate and it is worthless.

 

YOU seem to think that he should have stopped 9/11, and there was no reason not too. Perhaps this is all part of the plan?

Perhaps. It had better be a fucking good plan or I'm going to kick His ass.