The biggest draw...EVER

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

The title says it all, time to decide THE biggest ICON ever to grace an American wrestling ring. Vote away...

 

Illusion

[Guest gwf0704]

Though Rock and Austin were great, Hogan popularized wrestling in the 80's for the masses and has always been a ratings winner, including his newest incarnation. Prima Donna, yes, but cannot ignore the drawing power......

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Vince could have chosen anyone (ex. Snuka) for the Hulk Hogan role in 1983, and never missed a beat. But without Austin, the WWF goes bankrupt in 1997. He was the only reason fans watched the WWF for the better part of three years from 1997-1999, until the rise of the Rock and the vast improvement in quality after Russo left. The AOL merger would have killed WCW regardless, and we would be stuck with the Big Zero right now if it wasn't with Austin.

 

As for Rock, he surpassed Austin in popularity in late 1999 when Austin had problems with bad booking and injuries, but he never came close to reaching the heights that Austin did in 1998. Plus, Rocky has gotten booed several times on TV. That never happened to Austin as a face.

 

1. Austin

2. Hogan

3. Rock

[Guest BifEverchad]

I was never a huge fan of Hogan's. But you do have to give the devil his dues.

Without Hogan in the 80's, there probably wouldn't have been a Stone Cold or Rock we have in the 90's and the present..

 

*ps*

Anyone else miss Austin?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Austin wins.

 

Not only did he (to quote Meltzer) "draw more than any man in the history of wrestling over a 5 year peiod"

 

but he did it in the face of actual competition.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Kahran's list is the same as mine. While Hogan was a huge draw in the 80's, he never had the competition that Austin had nor was the company fixing to die, so Austin gets my vote.

[Guest razazteca]

Austin wins my vote

 

Hogan got tired fast in WCW as his gimmick changed every 2 months until nWo was formed then that got tired after a year.

 

I'll put the Rock in the middle but his catch phases need new verbalism The Rock is a better worker than Hogan but thats another story as he had credible rivals which drew the crowd into the matches that made good feuds.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

In 1999: One Austin shirt sold every 10 seconds.

 

In 1987: One Hogan shirt sold every 10 mins. Austin wins.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Austin wins.

 

Not only did he (to quote Meltzer) "draw more than any man in the history of wrestling over a 5 year peiod"

 

but he did it in the face of actual competition.

Thats an exceptionally good point. But i have to disagree with Kahran Ramsus on the fact ANYONE could do what Hogan did...I don't think anyone at the time held the same look and charisma Hogan possessed, with the exception of possibly Macho Man Randy Savage...i personally think no-one else even comes close...and without Hogan, there'd be no 'Attitude' for Austin to make 'cool'.

 

Illusion

[Guest converge241]

i had to go Hogan

 

a longer time drawing money as a top position in 3 different time periods, maybe 4

 

Huge AWA house show business

WWF 1985 - 1990/1991

WCW 1996 - 1998

maybe you could count the significant money his name drew to WMX8

 

Austin drew tons but it was only from 97-02, minus a year maybe more for the time out.

[Guest The Electrifyer]

Plus, Rocky has gotten booed several times on TV. That never happened to Austin as a face.

Hell, that didn't even happen to Austin as heel, so I too have to go with Austin for pretty much all the points already pointed out. The problem with The Rock is that he pretty much occured when Stone Cold occured. If The Rock's era occured after Austin left the WW(F)E, then maybe he could compete with Hogan and Austin as the top draws ever.

[Guest bravesfan]

In 1999: One Austin shirt sold every 10 seconds.

 

In 1987: One Hogan shirt sold every 10 mins. Austin wins.

Merchandising (shirts, hats, etc.) was never a big factor until the late 90's, just because no federation had thought of going overboard with it. Whereas fans of 1996-1998 had Austin, Rock, nWo, Sting, Bret and HBK merchandise littered all over the marketing landscape, Hogan was the only wrestler in 1987 with ANY merchandise. The action figures was where the money was at back then, and even now action figures are multiplied 10x over.

 

 

The whole argument depends on Hogan, Rock and Austin's "era" of drawing/merchandising, etc. While Hogan just went on buyrates and ratings (and a movie deal/ SNL appearance) back in the 80's, Rock/Austin had merchandising, SNL appearances, major motion picture deals, buyrates and ratings to cover. Even then, it's still to decide. The Rocks and Austins would have none of these benefits if Hogan wasn't there in 1984

 

I'll go with Hogan, though, only because I don't see anyone taking his place in 1984 against the Sheik. Barely enough people had the charisma to stay with him (Slaughter, Piper, Backlund) while only Piper had the staying power to get to 1989. Even then, Piper was a character any fan loved to hate, anyway.

[Guest TheHulkster]

Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon are responsible for turning the WWF from a regional Northeastern territory into a global juggernaut, like it or not. What have Austin or The Rock done that could compare with that? Starred in a few movies? Sold a few T-shirts? Sold out a few arenas? Starred on Saturday night live? Hogan has done all of that and more over a span of almost 20 years. Hogan, Bischoff, Hall, and Nash were responsible for taking a company that had never seen a profit in it's entire existance up to that point, and made it the #1 drawing wrestling company in the world. I'd put Austin the the #2 spot for sure though, but he wasn't really drawing huge numbers and houses untill he got into that program with HBK and Tyson.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

Hogan was an over draw. but he could have been like RVD, way over but not pushed to the top. He would have been forgotten too. Because JYD was just as big of a draw. Piper was a WAY over face in wrestling, Debiase was both and good at it, Savage was great, Dynamite kid, Chico, and lets not forget, McMahon could have easily raided NWA for top talent instead of AWA. So add Flair, Dusty, Magnum TA, and Steamboat to the list. So to say hogan is the reason is laughable. WWF was going national no matter what, it wasn't them going national that made them big it was the Rock n' Wrestling angle, which to my knowlege, Hogan WASN"T apart of.

 

BTW: WCW in 1992 had a profit with the Dangerous Alliance.

 

WCW started with a profit in 1994 with Flair at the books, but HOGAN was the reason the rating tanked.

[Guest TheHulkster]

Hogan was an over draw. but he could have been like RVD, way over but not pushed to the top. He would have been forgotten too. Because JYD was just as big of a draw. Piper was a WAY over face in wrestling, Debiase was both and good at it, Savage was great, Dynamite kid, Chico, and lets not forget, McMahon could have easily raided NWA for top talent instead of AWA. So add Flair, Dusty, Magnum TA, and Steamboat to the list. So to say hogan is the reason is laughable. WWF was going national no matter what, it wasn't them going national that made them big it was the Rock n' Wrestling angle, which to my knowlege, Hogan WASN"T apart of.

 

BTW: WCW in 1992 had a profit with the Dangerous Alliance.

 

WCW started with a profit in 1994 with Flair at the books, but HOGAN was the reason the rating tanked.

"BTW: WCW in 1992 had a profit with the Dangerous Alliance.

 

WCW started with a profit in 1994 with Flair at the books, but HOGAN was the reason the rating tanked."

 

lol Huh?

 

Wcw was in the red every year untill 97. Thats a fact. Bash at the Beach 94 was the first good buyrate for WCW (1.02) since 1991. The buyrates during the Dangerous Alliance Era in 1992 were: .96 for Superbrawl (which was coming off of a strong year for pay per view numbers in 1991), .61 for Wrestlewar (some profit the DA are bringing in there, huh?), .40 for beach blast (look at the profit rise!), and .40 for the great american bash (still very low). About this mythical Flair booking period where he drew so much money, lets look to the buyrates for the truth. Superbrawl 94 drew a whopping .50 rating, Spring Stampede drew an amazing .53, and his last PPV behind the book, Slamboree, drew a .48. The number for the next PPV with Hogan's debut drew more than DOUBLE what the previous PPV drew. You read too many Scott Keith rants. Try to know what you're talking about before you argue the facts next time.

 

"Hogan was an over draw. but he could have been like RVD, way over but not pushed to the top. He would have been forgotten too."

 

Were you alive during 1984? I'm not going to hate on RVD, but to compare how over he is to how over Hogan was in his prime is a joke. I like RVD, but he doesn't really affect ratings, crowd attendance, buyrates, or merchandising a whole lot.

 

"Because JYD was just as big of a draw. Piper was a WAY over face in wrestling, Debiase was both and good at it, Savage was great, Dynamite kid, Chico, and lets not forget, McMahon could have easily raided NWA for top talent instead of AWA. So add Flair, Dusty, Magnum TA, and Steamboat to the list. "

 

I'm in awe. JYD was just as big of a draw as Hogan. The Dynamite Kid, Tito Santana, Dibiase, Steamboat, Savage, Magnum, Dusty, Flair, etc. could've taken Hogan's role as the top dog of the WWF and been on the cover of sports illustrated, star on SNL, pack 70,000+ fans into the silver dome, sell out every arena they went to and draw millions of dollars for the company. What the hell were promoters thinking not grabbing these guys who could draw millions upon millions of dollars? How did they not draw so much money for McMahon or Crockett when they were there if their drawing power was so ridiculous? I mean, they all could've easily drawn as much as Hogan right? How could you say any of that with a straight face? Hogan DID draw all that money and all those ratings, and if the fans wanted to see any of those guys as much as Hogan, the ratings would've risen when they were on TV as much as they did when Hogan was on, the house shows with them as the main eventers would sold out each and every time, and their merchandise would've sold by the bucket loads. Some of them had a good deal of success, don't get me wrong, but they didn't even come close to drawing what Hogan did at any time during their careers, and to say they suddenly could for no reason at all is pretty ridiculous. I said it before and i'll say it again, you read too many of Scott Keith's rants and don't really look at the cold hard facts.

 

"So to say hogan is the reason is laughable. WWF was going national no matter what, it wasn't them going national that made them big it was the Rock n' Wrestling angle, which to my knowlege, Hogan WASN"T apart of."

 

That says it all right there.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

Lets look at some facts:

 

Fact NWA was a NATIONAL FED SINCE 1948!

 

The only people to really think that wrestling before 1984 was in Smokey bars and bingo hall size buildings were Hogan and McMahon.

 

Hogan would be nothing if it wasn't for Billy Graham(who was just as big, if not bigger draw than Hogan).

 

Flair has been a major draw since the mid 70s.

 

Flair's super drawing power tanked because of Dusty's booking.

 

WWF went national in 1983, before Hogan resigned.

 

WWF sold out Shea Stadium in 1981 with a MAJOR show with an hardly over Hogan in the undercard. So it wouldn't have matter who was the main eventer with Rock N Wrestling, because WWF was having major draws its entire existance.

 

Hogan did make a name for himself with Rocky III.

 

Only reason Hogan is the "big star" of 80s is because of the 4 year massive blow job push Vince gave him.

[Guest kebab]

Fact NWA was a NATIONAL FED SINCE 1948!

NWA wasn't even a fed, just a group of promoters. None of the NWA promoters ran national.

 

Hogan would be nothing if it wasn't for Billy Graham(who was just as big, if not bigger draw than Hogan).

That's not true at all. Graham was a big draw in the northeast, Hogan was a draw all over the US, in Europe and Japan.

 

Only reason Hogan is the "big star" of 80s is because of the 4 year massive blow job push Vince gave him.

Yeah, that reason, and that reason alone. Even Duke Droese could have filled that spot, right ? Seriously, get a grip.

 

Wcw was in the red every year untill 97. Thats a fact.

Actually it was 95.

 

Because JYD was just as big of a draw.

JYD was big in Lousianna. Not anywhere else.

 

I'd put Austin the the #2 spot for sure though, but he wasn't really drawing huge numbers and houses untill he got into that program with HBK and Tyson.

So what ? Hogan wasn't really drawing huge numbers until after the Rocky movie. Everyone gotta start somewhere. That was Austin's first program as THE main eventer. Unless you're put in THE top position, you're not gonna draw top money. Austin did when he got the chance.

[Guest bravesfan]

Hogan would be nothing if it wasn't for Billy Graham(who was just as big, if not bigger draw than Hogan).

 

The only thing that Billy Graham could draw was pictures of hypodermic needles. He could never sell arenas out on another continent on the top of the card (with or without his federation's support). Nor could he do that anywhere on the West Coast. Yet, Hogan could. GO FIGURE!

 

Flair has been a major draw since the mid 70s.

 

And by mid 70's, you mean late 80's? C'mon, you honestly think Flair was a PPV success on par with Hogan? Flair never translated to PPV ratings EVER. Compare any buyrate/television rating of a Flair-only show to a Hogan-only show...there is no comparison.

 

Flair's super drawing power tanked because of Dusty's booking.

 

1989-1990 and 1992-1993 was the best chance the NWA-WCW had at surpassing the WWF. Ric Flair was putting on 4-5 star matches with pencils. He was in heated feuds with Sting, Luger, etc. where the World title was firmly around his or his opponent's waist. Flair was always on top of the fed.

 

Yet, WWF buyrates were firmly doubling and tripling them at this point with Hogan on top... GO FIGURE!

 

Hogan was given the World Heavyweight belt upon arrival in the WCW- and subsequently the ratings EXPLODED. Suddenly, there's a head-to head battle with the creation of WCW Nitro. Suddenly, the WCW can finally compete with the WWF. Oh, and that nWo thing...

 

Flair was given the World Heavyweight belt upon a few months arrival in the WWF-along with the NWA-WCW belt he brought along as a a heat machine...and the ratings stayed the same. Curt Henning as his manager, Bobby Heenan as his lackey...nothing severe happened.

 

WWF sold out Shea Stadium in 1981 with a MAJOR show with an hardly over Hogan in the undercard. So it wouldn't have matter who was the main eventer with Rock N Wrestling, because WWF was having major draws its entire existance.

 

Do you understand what an ERA is? 1984 was the END OF AN ERA. Let me break it down to you

-Bob Backlund's character was already fading...

-Andre was already physically breaking down...

-Iron Sheik could not carry a backyard federation...

-Muraco, Snuka and JYD were secondary characters AT BEST... none of those 3 aforementioned had any mic skills that could translate into a great push...

 

See WWF 1990 for another example. It's called change. The NWA/WCW didn't attempt this until Hogan came along.

 

The above characters were Vince Senior's lovechilds, nothing in the way of his son's new direction. With quick match pacing, less restholds, more mic work and build-up...none of these 6 could survive long in the WWF.

 

Hogan had "it". The total package...

-Charisma...

-Ability to gather sympathy from the crowd...

-Ability to draw crowd in ANY match...

-Mic Skills...

-Character Believability...

-MARKETING ABILITY...

 

Anything extra (workrate, technical skills, etc.) was a plus for McMahon, but he didn't need it.

[Guest TheHulkster]

I'm sure you're a cool enough guy, but I don't think you know what you're talking about. It seems like you're just looking for reasons to make Hogan look bad. Then you go as far as to make stuff up to support your cause. I don't know what you have against Hogan, but you seem pretty bitter towards him for some reason. Anyway, time for another edition of "Here is where you're wrong":

 

"Lets look at some facts:

 

Fact NWA was a NATIONAL FED SINCE 1948!"

 

lol Right off the bat with the BS. Like the fellow above me pointed out, the NWA was basically a bunch of promoters from various parts of the country that picked the world champion. The NWA was not a NATIONAL FED SINCE 1948!

 

"The only people to really think that wrestling before 1984 was in Smokey bars and bingo hall size buildings were Hogan and McMahon. "

 

I don't recall McMahon or Hogan ever talking about wrestling in bars or bingo hall sized buildings before 1984, but the arenas were pretty smokey.

 

"Hogan would be nothing if it wasn't for Billy Graham(who was just as big, if not bigger draw than Hogan"

 

Wow. Billy Graham was a just as big, if not a bigger, draw than Hulk Hogan? Who the hell told you this? Why are you foolish enough to believe them? Seriously?

 

"Flair has been a major draw since the mid 70s."

 

1981 to be exact, though he hasn't really been a MAJOR draw in quite a while

 

"Flair's super drawing power tanked because of Dusty's booking."

 

Like I said earlier, you read too many of Scott Keith's rants. He's full of shit a lot. Sorry to break your heart. Flair was still a really good draw for Crockett and Turner up untill his departure from WCW in 1991. If his drawing power "tanked" so badly, you would think they would've taken him out of the main events and not given him all those title reigns huh?

 

"WWF went national in 1983, before Hogan resigned."

 

Actually, the WWF didn't really go national untill 1984. Hogan won the belt in 83 though.

 

"WWF sold out Shea Stadium in 1981 with a MAJOR show with an hardly over Hogan in the undercard. So it wouldn't have matter who was the main eventer with Rock N Wrestling, because WWF was having major draws its entire existance."

 

Your logic is a bit flawed here. The W/WWF sold out a lot of shows in the Northeast, especially when Bruno was on the top of the card. Like the guy above me also said, Hogan sold out shows in Puerto Rico, Europe, Canada, St Louis, San Francisco, Japan, etc. over a span of 8 years for the WWF. None of the guys on that stadium show can really claim that many sell outs around the world besides Andre and Inoki. Besides, the particular show you're talking about was in 1980, and they held several big events at Shea prior to that.

 

 

"Only reason Hogan is the "big star" of 80s is because of the 4 year massive blow job push Vince gave him"

 

It couldn't possibly be because the fans really liked him now could it? I mean, his first day back in the WWF, he debuted to a monster pop. His second day back, he won the belt and the fans in the garden exploded. Were you even alive when he won the belt? Do you have any understanding of the wrestling business and the fact that if a guy gets put on top and draws more money than anyone before him and sells out every arena he goes to, then maybe he DESERVES to be the top guy? You have a lot to learn about wrestling history and the wrestling business.

 

 

 

 

"So what ? Hogan wasn't really drawing huge numbers until after the Rocky movie. Everyone gotta start somewhere. That was Austin's first program as THE main eventer. Unless you're put in THE top position, you're not gonna draw top money. Austin did when he got the chance. "

 

I'm not hating on Austin. They gave him the ball, and he ran harder than anyone could've imagined. Just pointing something out. Some people think he started drawing huge buyrates and selling out arenas after his Austin 3:16 speech of his face turn, but he didn't really start to become one of the biggest draws ever untill his program with Tyson.