Celebration of Terror

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Today's WSJ carries a typically excellent column by Mr. Farrukh Dhondy, a London-based writer. It also appears online here, in the City Journal.

 

"An obscene spectacle took place in North London on Wednesday. A thousand Muslims gathered at the Finsbury Park mosque to celebrate the bombing of the World Trade Center. The Metropolitan Police deployed a force 500 strong to protect the meeting, called "A Towering Day in History," from disruption...

The celebration began promptly at 1 p.m., so that the participants could applaud the action of the WTC bombers at exactly 1:46 p.m. London time - the exact hour, a year earlier, when the first plane hit its target in New York."

 

Tell me again why these filthy animals should be protected by the police even as they call for their deaths.

 

Tell me again why they're allowed to enter our society, bringing their poisonous ideologies with them.

 

Tell me again that this is a religion of peace.

 

Tell me.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Another column by Mr Dhondy appears here. If you think John Walker Lindh was an isolated case, you need to read it.

 

"When liberal Muslims declare that Sept. 11 was an atrocity contrary to the Koran, the majority of Muslims around the world don't believe them... the officials of the U.S. and Britain... need to redirect the energy that they have poured into race relations and multiculturalism into a defense of the values of freedom and democracy. Their future depends on it."

[Guest DrTom]

As a rule, I don't support mosque bombings, or the bombing of any house of worship of any kind. There's an exception to every rule, though, and this would have been one of them. It's appalling that these wretched scum were protected by the police while they celebrated evil, murder, and death, and called for the destruction of western civilization.

 

Bah. Let's get started in Iraq now. Maybe then we can have the rest of the Middle East taken care of in time for Xmas.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Because they have the freedom in democracies to make their opinions expressed...

 

Of course we have the freedom to put our fist in their face, too...

[Guest Cancer Marney]

That's precisely it. We don't. We protect these pieces of shit even as they're calling for the destruction of the country and celebrating the deaths of thousands.

I think the government should have the same right to self-defence that individuals do. Freedom of speech is protected by the Constitution; death threats are felony assault. We need to start locking these bastards away and stop being so squeamish about charging people with treason. I'd like to put at least 95% of MAYA and CAIR behind bars for a start.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Ermm, "Majority of Muslims" do NOT wish the destruction of america. When you see a video of 500 - 1000 arabs celebrating like fools, how does that translate into, "The majority of muslims" ?

[Guest Invader3k]

Just deport them back to the Middle East if they think Islam and the culture it perpetuates is so great. If I lived in the area, I would be seriously tempted to at _least_ throw a brick through one of the windows on their building.

[Guest danielisthor]

Ermm, "Majority of Muslims" do NOT wish the destruction of america. When you see a video of 500 - 1000 arabs celebrating like fools, how does that translate into, "The majority of muslims" ?

when i watch news reports from the middle east involving Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Jordan, Palistine, Iraq, Iran, etc. etc. and sizeable crowds are yelling anti-american rhetoric, burning American flags, burning pictures of our presidents, i would say a good portion of the male Islamic population hates America.

 

Here's a kick in the pants, if a 1000 Americans go out and celebrate the destruction of lets say Mecca at a local church, we'd probably be called racist and be vilified in the media and throughout the world.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Ermm, "Majority of Muslims"  do NOT wish the destruction of america.  When you see a video of 500 - 1000 arabs celebrating like fools, how does that translate into, "The majority of muslims" ?

When the overwhelming majority of Moslems fail to unequivocally denounce the most hideous single act of terrorism in history, that speaks adequately of their desire, their intent, and the direction of their sympathies.

 

If I had seen one video, photograph, or account of 500-1000 Moslems celebrating in the streets, burning the American flag, and chanting "Death to America," I would not conclude that most Moslems hate America. If I had seen two, I would reserve judgement. Three, I would start to have doubts. Four, I would be ambivalent. Five. Twenty-five. Fifty. Five hundred...

 

These incidents are no longer even remarkable. No one is shocked that Moslems celebrate the loss of innocent life. It's almost expected of them. No one is angry that mosques around the world praise the hijackers and call for fresh jihads against America. It's what we've come to expect. No one is surprised that $100 million can be raised in a couple of weeks for the families of evil murdering filth, or that Yasser Arafat funds terrorists. It's what we expect. It's what we always expect.

 

It's what we always fucking expect.

 

I have no doubts left. I haven't had any for a long time. And anyone who claims he still does is willfully blind.

[Guest DeputyHawk]

it's because we do live in a free society which promotes the right to free speech and the right to protest.

 

if people openly celebrated an american attack in iraq they would be locked up or killed. not in the u.k, as much as we may disagree with what people have to say we respect their right to say it and to be protected from harm for exercising their rights.

 

you can't preach the virtue of a free state, and then condemn it when it doesn't agree with your particular vision. that is just hypocrisy at its basest level.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

No. Hypocrisy on its basest level consists of demanding asylum and protection from those you're trying to kill.

 

Death threats are not free speech. Death threats are a crime. Saying "Death to America" is not a protest. It is advocacy of violence.

 

you can't preach the virtue of a free state, and then condemn it when it doesn't agree with your particular vision.

Since their particular vision consists of the Union being reduced to smoking rubble, I most certainly can.

[Guest DeputyHawk]

there was no mention in your original post of the protestors chanting 'death to america'. if that was the case, then i think the police should have made arrests, but should still have prevented violent attacks on either them or their religious buildings. we can't have it both ways.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Did you even read the column, or do you just prefer to make things up as you go along?

[Guest DeputyHawk]

sorry, i completely missed the link and scanned through to your text, thought you were just naming the source and summarising. will go back shamefully and read the article in full. i still think the right to free speech has to be respected in all it's unpleasant forms.

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

I think as long as Americans continue to treat normal average Muslims and other funny looking foreigners like todays specatcle, I think that the rest of the World's Muslim population can say whatever they want about America.

 

If the shoe were on the other foot and it was Americans who were being persecuted and singled out in some other country just for being American, we would be doing the same thing.

[Guest EricMM]

Again did you read the article?

 

The people who demand british freedoms be smashed to pieces demand those same freedoms protect them.

 

The liberal in me damands that these people not be prosecuted for their beliefs because good beliefs need to be protected.

 

But damn...

 

Get your subversive bullshit out of western civilization you terrorist fuckers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If you are a terrorist fucker, you need to get the hell out of here. If you are a peacful nice happy moslem person, please, come, enjoy our capitalism. But if you are a terrorist fucker...

*points thumb over shoulder*

screw.

[Guest KoR Fungus]

I have to say, this column really made me think, more than anything I've read in a long time. It is really challenging some of my pretty deeply ingrained beliefs. I always believed that Islam (or any religion) wasn't the problem, and that people's circumstances made them the way they are, and as such I was appalled by this "war against Islam" that some people advocate. I'm definitely less sure of that now. Here you have people growing up in England, with everyone bending over backwards to accomodate them and make sure that they feel like they fit in, and they still turn into total radicals that seek the demise of civilized society. There's no negative circumstances here that are turning these people into radicals, which means that the only thing that could be doing it is Islam itself. That's a really scary thought for me.

 

What's even more scary is that I don't know what we can do about it. Obviously we can and should ban these ridiculous rallies, or at the very least not provide police protection for people who want to see us all killed. But at the same time, there's no way we can stop people from having those beliefs. They are too set in their ways to be converted back to our way of life, and killing them isn't a realistic option either. We're pretty much just stuck with them, which scares me.

 

Great article, although I'm in a worse mood after reading it.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

We'll get you over to the dark side yet. There is a solution... you just have to come a little further in to see it.

[Guest MrRant]

We'll get you over to the dark side yet. There is a solution... you just have to come a little further in to see it.

<inserts Vader Breathing into Marneys sentence>

[Guest DeputyHawk]

went back and read the full article, sorry for missing the link. wow. that really was more than just a gathering of people expressing a controversial opinion. i'm torn on this, yet my inner wishy-washy liberal is still winning out. just. i still think they have a right to act like inhuman pricks as long as they're not physically harming anyone. but then that too is questionable on the bigger board. i'm embarrassed the british government have not handed hamza over to the u.s. for questioning when there are definite links to him syphoning young moslems into terror cells as well as the criminal charges he faces in yemen. do you know what possible reason we are giving for this? the following is particularly nauseating:

 

When the men were captured and tried, they and their families in Britain instantly applied to these same diplomats whose families they had come to murder to represent them—as they were British citizens—and to secure their release from Yemeni justice.

 

that is very much hypocrisy at its basest level, yes. jesus. i still believe the police were right to give protection to the congregation, preventing what could easily have turned into a bloody, emotionally charged massacre, but what would have made the whole affair truly special is if special forces had simply seiged the mosque mid-service and arrested hamza on the spot for terrorist activities, taking that psycho omar bakri with them as well. that would have been a touch of class.

 

as for the malaise eating away inside kor fungus, i have been feeling the same thing more and more inside myself as of late. the stage is being set and the battle lines are being dug deeper and deeper into the sand. i didn't want this to happen, but if things are truly to be followed through to their ultimate conclusion, sides will have to be taken and i ain't gonna be on the side cheering on 3000 deaths in a mosque. marney often concludes her posts with the legend 'change or die', which enfuriates me. what is now starting to absolutely terrify me is that i can see where the western world's momentum is swinging, and it makes me sick to my stomach that i fear her appraisal of the situation may be correct, and sicker still that i personally can no longer summon up the inner belief to vehemently oppose such ideas. these are troubled days for deputy.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"If I lived in the area, I would be seriously tempted to at _least_ throw a brick through one of the windows on their building."

 

Then you'd be prosecuted for a hate crime, or something of that nature...

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Thing is, we still let the Klan march whenever they want, essentially. They're almost as fucked up as the people mentioned in the article. The way I see it, if we let one march, we've got to let the other. I don't think they should be defended though, hell, let 'em say what they want, then let 'em catch an ass whoopin' or worse, and prosecute who did it for assault and battery. I guarantee any jury aside from a Taliban clerical review of some sort would find the defendant "not guilty on all charges"

[Guest Cancer Marney]

marney often concludes her posts with the legend 'change or die', which enfuriates me. what is now starting to absolutely terrify me is that i can see where the western world's momentum is swinging, and it makes me sick to my stomach that i fear her appraisal of the situation may be correct, and sicker still that i personally can no longer summon up the inner belief to vehemently oppose such ideas. these are troubled days for deputy.

"You... tortured me... oh, you tortured me... oh God, why?"

"Because I love you. Because I want to set you free."

"You say you want to set me free and you put me in a prison..."

"You were already in a prison. You've been in a prison all your life... I didn't put you in a prison, Evey. I just showed you the bars."

"You're wrong! It's just life, that's all! It's how life is! It's what we've got to put up with. It's all we've got. What gives you the right to decide it's not good enough?"

"You're in a prison, Evey. You were born in a prison. You've been in a prison so long, you no longer believe there's a world outside."

"Shut up! You're mad! I don't want to hear it!"

"...because you're afraid, Evey. You're afraid because you can feel freedom closing in upon you. You're afraid because freedom is terrifying..."

"I can't feel anything! There's nothing to feel! Leave me alone!"

"Don't back away from it, Evey. Part of you understands the truth even as part pretends not to... the door of the cage is open, Evey. All that you feel is the wind from outside. Don't be afraid."

[Guest J*ingus]

That quote sounds familiar, where's it from?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

"...and at last I know. I know who V must be."

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Here you have people growing up in England, with everyone bending over backwards to accomodate them and make sure that they feel like they fit in, and they still turn into total radicals that seek the demise of civilized society.

Um, no. The English society is still deeply racist and does not do a thing to make Muslims "feel like they fit in". The treatment asians recieve is often disgusting.

 

Having said that, there are obviously evil, sadistic people who do not require any ill-treatment in order to participate in such demonstrations as that mentioned at the start of this thread. The demonstration should have been stopped.

 

Like several people who have posted in this thread, I find my liberal leanings sorely tested in recent times.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Did you even read the column, or do you just prefer to make things up as you go along?

The “celebration” began promptly at 1 PM, so that participants could applaud the action of the WTC bombers at exactly 1:46 London time—the exact time, a year earlier, when the first plane hit its target in New York. Chairing the meeting was Abu Hamza, an Egyptian-born engineer turned Muslim mullah, who presides over the notorious Finsbury Park mosque, where several of the detainees in Camp Delta, Guantanamo Bay, captured fighting for the Taliban and al-Qaida, received their theological training. Hamza also reportedly recruited to the jihad Richard Reid, the would-be shoe-bomber who failed to blow up an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami on December 22, 2001. The good Imam is implicated as well in the training and instigation of Zacarias Moussaoui, under arrest on suspicion of conspiring with the 19 murderers of September 11.

 

The "celebration" as described here isn't at all related to anyone chanting "death to America". It's not even encouraging any further attacks. They were simply "celebrating" the memory of their jihad comrades who were involved in the suicide bombing and, as usually happens in a suicide bombing, die. Suicide bombing is a vile activity, however to the jihads (I can't remember the proper name for their sect) a "free ticket to heaven". I don't know much about Islam, but I know that's not true for every single other sect. That still doesn't make it right, but, it's interesting how you call for the destruction of all Muslims to stop the "view of all Muslims" that all Americans should be destroyed, when that's simply not true and simply not right. There are over a billion Muslims in the world, and if every single sect had these beliefs a huge chunk of the world would have been blown away by now.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

By the way, who's Homza? Is he the "new" Bin Laden? It certainly seems that way according to the first column...

[Guest Cancer Marney]

it's interesting how you call for the destruction of all Muslims to stop the "view of all Muslims" that all Americans should be destroyed, when that's simply not true and simply not right.  There are over a billion Muslims in the world, and if every single sect had these beliefs a huge chunk of the world would have been blown away by now.

You are mistakenly equating the magnitude of their evil with the magnitude of their ability.

 

It's not even encouraging any further attacks. They were simply "celebrating" the memory of their jihad comrades

You are a very silly and appallingly naive person. This one sentence represents the nadir of the left's disgusting and destructive accept-everything-save-critical-thought-and-morality multiculturalism.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Wow Marney, you talk in a condescending manner about everyone else, but you really are blind to your beliefs.

 

That still doesn't make it right.

 

How am I silly and appallingly naive? I obviously don't accept their actions, I was just trying to clear things up a bit.