Celebration of Terror

[Guest Cancer Marney]

How am I silly and appallingly naive?

You said that the celebration didn't encourage further attacks. That is precisely what it did and precisely what it was meant to do.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

How am I silly and appallingly naive?

You said that the celebration didn't encourage further attacks. That is precisely what it did and precisely what it was meant to do.

How do you know this? Did you attend the meeting in person or something?

 

Also, I can't seem to recall anything other than media B.S. about a "credible threat to blow up the Golden Gate bridge" since last year. What further attacks?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

How do you know this?

Common sense?

 

Did you attend the meeting in person or something?

No. I wasn't allowed to. And the reason you know that is because all those scum are still alive.

 

Also, I can't seem to recall anything other than media B.S. about a "credible threat to blow up the Golden Gate bridge" since last year.  What further attacks?

Well let's see. They were planning to strike a British target as well. We grounded all flights and stopped them. Five people who received al Qaeda training, training which probably didn't involve knitting mittens, were arrested in New York today. We stopped them. Reid was prevented from blowing up an aeroplane in mid-flight. We stopped him. A Moslem Arab shot up a few people on Independence Day. He was killed. A bunch of Moslem Arabs were arrested in Singapore before they had the chance to make videotaped practice attacks a reality. We stopped them. Abdullah Al Muhajir was found to have plans to construct a bomb with radiocative material. We stopped him.

 

So you're saying that no further attacks were planned because the terrorists haven't killed anyone recently. Well no they haven't, because we're doing our job and we're pretty good at it. But with people like you we can never win. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. If nothing happens, obviously that proves Moslems are all peace-loving people and those nasty accidents at the Pentagon, the WTC, and over Pennsylvania were all they wanted to do. Gee, why can't we just let them kill 3000 people every once in a while? After all, you say you don't care, right?

[Guest evenflowDDT]

How were these encouraged by the celebration?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Tell me what the verb "celebrate" means, please.

[Guest HoffmanHBK]

I'm no walking dictionary, but a celebration of those participating in a Jihad or suicide bombing would include celebrating their lives, and thus their roles in the 9/11 attack, especially considering they took that day to celebrate. That's the difference between a public gathering and a private mourning, or even a public mourning, as we gave to the lives our country lost.

[Guest EricMM]

Alright listen up you fucking mooks, you're making us all look REALLY bad.

 

"An obscene spectacle took place in North London on Wednesday. A thousand Muslims gathered at the Finsbury Park mosque to celebrate the bombing of the World Trade Center. The Metropolitan Police deployed a force 500 strong to protect the meeting, called "A Towering Day in History," from disruption...

The celebration began promptly at 1 p.m., so that the participants could applaud the action of the WTC bombers at exactly 1:46 p.m. London time - the exact hour, a year earlier, when the first plane hit its target in New York."

 

Look.

Listen.

Learn.

 

You are acting like this is nothing. You are DEFENDING it. Whereas, if Bush had made derrogitory comments about Islam, you'd like, explode.

 

Can't you see why some of us are disheartened? These people had EVERYTHING. They lived in the western world. They had access to everything anyone in Great Britan has access to, which is pretty much what people in America do. Yet the turn their backs on it and want to kill it?

 

I've been saying for months that the reason terrorists exist is that their situation promotes violence. Great Britian is not part of that situation.

 

You are defending the people who create terrorists.

 

You are defending the people who create terrorists.

 

Do you understand yet?

 

*EDIT* Underline, Bold, and Italics are mine *EDIT*

[Guest Cancer Marney]

I confess I enjoy it when idiots like EFDDT draw fire even from people who reflexively disagree with me.

[Guest EricMM]

Look, I wasn't trying to be mean.

 

But honestly. Say a man raped and shot your mom. He died too. Somehow. The year after he raped and shot your mom, all of his friends held a service in memory of that rape/murder. They stopped the service so they could all applaud exactly one year after it happened. The men there said "everyone should rape this man's family. His daughters, his aunts, everyone this man's associated with should be raped and shot" And trained others to do that.

 

Is that freedom of speech?

Is that any different from what happened?

 

Maybe they didn't train people to rape your mom, but they surely are training people to kill you, if you are a US citizen or a British citizen.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

How is that different than our training people to kill them? Oh, because its them dying not us, and its OK since they're just infidels anyway, right?

 

Oh, and Marney, I'm not an idiot, you're just a bigot. But outside of a Current Events discussion you're still cool

[Guest MrRant]

How is that different than our training people to kill them? Oh, because its them dying not us, and its OK since they're just infidels anyway, right?

 

Oh, and Marney, I'm not an idiot, you're just a bigot. But outside of a Current Events discussion you're still cool

Remember what happened last time someone called someone a bigot?

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Yea but in this case its true, in your case it was more of an "overexaggeration" like you kept calling goodhelmet a commie.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Marney, I'm not an idiot, you're just a bigot.

I forgot to reply to this and when I remembered I didn't bother because it was just so fucking stupid, like all of EFDDT's posts.

 

Am I a bigot? Yes, I suppose I am. I hate cultures which oppress, torture, and murder people. I hate religions which teach people to stone others to death for making love to someone or getting raped or wearing a skirt. I hate religions which burn women alive.

 

How is that different than our training people to kill them?

It is different because WE WOULD NEVER FUCKING KILL THEM IF THEY WEREN'T TRYING TO KILL US you complete fucking shithead.

"Oh, so what if Japan dropped bombs on Pearl Harbor, we dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, right? How are we different?"

"Oh, so what if Hitler killed a few Jews, the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto killed a few German officers, didn't they?"

"Oh, so what if the Palestinians kill Israelis, the Israelis kill Palestinians, right?"

Do you understand the concept of linear time? Causality and consequence? Self-defence and aggression? Here's a hint:

 

ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE GODDAMNED OTHER.

 

outside of a Current Events discussion you're still cool

Get the fuck out of Current Events and go exercise your diseased, crippled brain by posting under more usernames like Punk Princess. You don't have the mental capacity to do anything more.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

It is different because WE WOULD NEVER FUCKING KILL THEM IF THEY WEREN'T TRYING TO KILL US you complete fucking shithead.

 

Exactly. We don't care what they do as long as they don't do it to us. But the Middle East has crossed over that line. Again and again and again...

[Guest evenflowDDT]

If we hadn't gotten the Afghanis involved in our conflict with the Soviet Union, they never would've been able to build themselves up enough to be able to support terrorists like Bin Laden. It's cause and effect. They didn't just decide to attack us out of the blue. We're not the poor innocent victims here, and throughout our history we never have been.

 

"Oh, so what if Japan dropped bombs on Pearl Harbor, we dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, right? How are we different?"

 

Yea, just like the Afghani and no doubt upcoming Iraqi offense, we killed many more innocent people "in defense" than the original "offense". Just like we did in our previous Middle East interference that inspired these terrorists to hate America so much, and what we will do again with further action. Collateral damage, right?

 

"Oh, so what if Hitler killed a few Jews, the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto killed a few German officers, didn't they?"

 

The Warsaw Ghetto soldiers had their backs up against the wall and knew they were going to die, and somehow got weapons smuggled in and fought to take out as many Nazis with them, but I don't understand this example... are you equating the terrorists with the Warsaw Ghetto soldiers or Hitler?

 

"Oh, so what if the Palestinians kill Israelis, the Israelis kill Palestinians, right?"

 

This has been going back and forth for so long that nobody even knows what the original "call and response" was.

 

Get the fuck out of Current Events and go exercise your diseased, crippled brain by posting under more usernames like Punk Princess. You don't have the mental capacity to do anything more.

 

Why? Because I disagree with you?

[Guest HoffmanHBK]

I see it like this, because I'm a family man: if someone were to kill one of my (future) children, I'd find him and kill him, and if I had to kill the people in his home to get to him, so be it. It's not morally sound, but God dammit, you don't go after a man's family. Our actions in the Middle East are the same thing, just on a larger scale. The children of America have been murdered and America -- and those in power who represent it -- is going to get justice, and revenge. Is it the most ethical, humanitarian course of action? No, and I don't think many would argue that way. But it's what the people who represent America feel they have to do, and I for one stand by them.

[Guest bob_barron]

I gotta agree with Hoff here-

 

We should kill more people then they killed of us as a way to send a message that you don't fuck with America.

[Guest HoffmanHBK]

Thanks Bob, but I'm not even saying "send a message," all I'm saying is that we will do whatever it takes to get justice and vengeance. However, moral qualms aside, I have no complaints with a little message to this kind of scum.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

If we hadn't gotten the Afghanis involved in our conflict with the Soviet Union, they never would've been able to build themselves up enough to be able to support terrorists like Bin Laden. It's cause and effect. They didn't just decide to attack us out of the blue. We're not the poor innocent victims here, and throughout our history we never have been.

 

Just because there is a method to their madness, doesn't change the fact that it is madness.

 

The only thing the US did wrong was not going to war after the 1993 bombing. With the situation right now, the US is 100% in the right, and I am not even American. The only reason Canada isn't going into Iraq with the US, is because Chretien has to face a leadership battle and he's worried about the French vote. Those fuckers didn't want to get involved in either of the World Wars either.

[Guest DrTom]

if someone were to kill one of my (future) children, I'd find him and kill him, and if I had to kill the people in his home to get to him, so be it.

Hoff, you're nothing but a maniac.

 

Because you're not going far enough. If someone were to kill one of my (future) children, I would kill him, anyone in his house, and all his family members I could find. Then I would find his address book and kill everyone listed in there. The SOB would be erased from existence by the time I got through with him.

 

I've always believed in being thorough...

[Guest Cancer Marney]

If we hadn't gotten the Afghanis involved in our conflict with the Soviet Union, they never would've been able to build themselves up enough to be able to support terrorists like Bin Laden. It's cause and effect. They didn't just decide to attack us out of the blue. We're not the poor innocent victims here, and throughout our history we never have been.

So, according to you, because we gave them greater capability, what they do with it is our fault.

Nope. Doesn't work that way. The Afghans are responsible for what the Afghans do.

 

Yea, just like the Afghani and no doubt upcoming Iraqi offense, we killed many more innocent people "in defense" than the original "offense"

We do not deliberately target innocents. If criminals hide in the midst of innocents, they are morally culpable for each and every innocent life lost.

 

I don't understand this example... are you equating the terrorists with the Warsaw Ghetto soldiers or Hitler?

Of course you don't understand, because you're still hellbent on demonising the United States any which way you can. I am equating the terrorists with Hitler, because the terrorists are the aggressors.

 

Because I disagree with you?

Because your arguments are weak, because you never follow through, because you aren't consistent, and because you refuse to coherently defend what you say.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

The only thing the US did wrong was not going to war after the 1993 bombing.

and not finishing the job in Desert Storm.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

and not finishing the job in Desert Storm.

 

That too.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Because I disagree with you?

Because your arguments are weak, because you never follow through, because you aren't consistent, and because you refuse to coherently defend what you say.

Because we all know "because they're evil" is SUCH good defense...

 

And for not specifically targeting non-military targets, it sure does "accidentally" happen a lot. That's all.

 

Plus, equating the terrorists with Hitler is a bad example because the U.S. never has their backs against the wall like the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto did. If anything, it'd be the other way around. Its still not a good example though.

 

And how am I inconsistent and not following through?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Because we all know "because they're evil" is SUCH good defense...

And how would you characterise the deliberate murder of children?

 

And for not specifically targeting non-military targets, it sure does "accidentally" happen a lot.  That's all.

It happens less than it ever has in the history of war.

 

Plus, equating the terrorists with Hitler is a bad example because the U.S. never has their backs against the wall like the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto did.  If anything, it'd be the other way around.  Its still not a good example though.

The parallel is exact. We are retaliating. Strength is not the issue. If you're right, you're right; whether the other side can beat you or not makes no difference whatsoever.

 

how am I inconsistent and not following through?

1. You claimed that if a significant percentage of Moslems hated America, they could beat us ("if every single sect had these beliefs a huge chunk of the world would have been blown away by now"). America has not been beaten by Moslems ergo a significant percentage of Moslems do not hate America.

FALSE CONCLUSION based on FALSE PREMISE

No matter how many Moslems hate us or how much they hate us they cannot defeat America. They do not have the skilled population base, they do not have the resources, and they do not have the technology.

 

2. You claimed that celebrating the 9/11 attacks did not encourage further attacks ("The celebration... [is] not even encouraging any further attacks").

FALSE CONCLUSION based on your being AN APOLOGIST FOR TERRORISM and AN ILLITERATE

Time for Remedial English 101: the verb "celebrate" indicates the honouring of an event. If you honour an event you ipso facto declare it desirable. If you declare an event desirable you ipso facto desire to repeat it.

Therefore CELEBRATIONS of 9/11 DIRECTLY ENCOURAGE further ACTS OF TERRORISM.

 

3. You claimed that our killing terrorists is morally equivalent to their killing us ("How is that different than our training people to kill them?").

FALSE CONCLUSION based on your FAILURE to understand the concept of LINEAR TIME

Once again: we would not kill Moslems if they did not both express an incontrovertible desire to kill us AND act on that stated desire. They kill us. THEN we kill them. They are the aggressors. They are evil. We are fully justified in retaliating JUST AS the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto were justified in retaliating against the Schutzstaffel.

 

4. You claimed that it is our fault that civilians die when terrorists deliberately use them as human shields ("we killed many more innocent people in defense than the original offense").

FALSE CONCLUSION based on your MORAL BLINDNESS

If terrorists use civilian populations to hide then THEY are culpable for each and every civilian casualty because THEY are endangering the civilians.

 

You are wrong, you are inconsistent, you are flighty and airheaded. You abandon one ridiculous argument for another as soon as it looks like you're losing. A few posts later you bring it up again in a more retarded form. You are furthermore a dishonest debater, a fool, a moral degenerate, and a liar.

 

Any other questions?

 

PS. Please start posting as Punk Princess in CE. I like that personality much, much better.

[Guest big Dante Cruz]

Note for everyone: Terrorism thrives on success. Terrorism thrives on things like the deaths of the Olympians in Munich. They thrive on things like the bombing in '93. They more than definitely thrive on 9/11. So we haven't heard about any more attacks. Doesn't mean they aren't trying. If anything, 9/11 encouraged them to do more because it's been done once. Nevermind that the same avenue isn't an option, but they think if it's been done once, it can be done again.

 

As for this whole hitting civilian targets, yeah, you hear all about it on the nightly news and CNN. La-de-friggin-da. I don't exactly care. Why not? Because our LIBERAL media being what it is sensationalizes every little screwup of the military until it's so big you just hate the armed forces because of one event. Yeah, every little mistake made by the military is shown over and over by the media. Let's try talking about the good things the military has done and stack everything up to compare. I wonder what will win...