Is Chretien going senile?

[Guest Dames Edna]

I am curious to hear some Americans points of view about Chretien's contoversial comments from the past week. He claimed that the western world is to blame for the terrorist attacks. While Europe and North America continues to get increasingly more wealthy, other poorer countries are suffering.

 

If you live in Canada, or even the United States, you'd know that Jean Chretien is getting up there in age. He hasn't exactly been a great leader for the country, and has pretty much been put on the Liberal chopping block (hence his retirement in 2004). My question is, has Chretien made an accurate statement here, or is he simply getting too senile for his own good?

 

I've seen him slammed on American TV, but are the American people afraid to accept some responsibility? Or is the US media just playing ignorant to the fact that the USA *may* have brought these attacks on themselves?

 

I am not calling anyone out here, I would just like to hear some American citizens point of view on all of this, since I've only talked to my Canadian friends about the tragedies

[Guest HoffmanHBK]

Well, if you buy into the radical Muslim point of view, we've brought this on ourselves, by the way we live every facet of our soft, lazy lives. As far as I'm concerned, these people cannot accept that different people have different beliefs, and when a group has beliefs and customs and a lifestyle too far from theirs, that group MUST be at fault, and therefore is subject to punishment. That's bullshit; no disrespect to your homeland, but America is the most free nation in the world, and the fact that we have that freedom, combined with wealth, doesn't warrant a single violent act upon us, let alone something on the magnitude of 9/11. So no, as an American citizen, I would say that we most certainly did NOT bring this on ourselves, and I believe the majority of the rationally-thinking Western world would agree, for the most part.

 

What the hell Chretein is thinking is beyond me. I'd guess it's just senility kicking in.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

He isn't senile. He's a liberal. Same symptoms, different etiology.

[Guest Dames Edna]

Ahh Hoffman, you say most of the western world does not think the UAS is to blame? I think besides the United States, many feel we have brought it on ourselves. Moreover, I think many in the Western world have grown tired of the United States stance in the middle east. Hence the Canadian government saying they will not support the USA in Iraq.

 

From what I understand, the United States provided Bin Laden with the funds to attack them since his major source of income is heroin.

[Guest MrRant]

America didn't bring it on themselves. Its not our fault that these people can't get themselves out of 3rd world status by learning to farm or trying to better themselves. They don't like the fact that most people here can afford a TV. It took hard work to get to this point and its not like most of us were just given things. I have worked very hard for everything that I have and how have I brought it upon myself? If working hard to have nice things is what equals death then we should go and kill anyone who worked hard enough to have 2 oil lamps instead of one.

[Guest MrRant]

Ahh Hoffman, you say most of the western world does not think the UAS is to blame? I think besides the United States, many feel we have brought it on ourselves. Moreover, I think many in the Western world have grown tired of the United States stance in the middle east. Hence the Canadian government saying they will not support the USA in Iraq.

 

From what I understand, the United States provided Bin Laden with the funds to attack them since his major source of income is heroin.

But that would assume that America cares what Canada thinks.

[Guest HoffmanHBK]

BDub, just because the rest of the West (bustin' out the rhymes) doesn't agree with all, or in some cases any, of our military actions doesn't mean they think we're to blame. The attacks were pretty much universally condemned as an unforgivable act of terrorism, before the world got wishy-washy. If nothing else, I think everyone's gut reaction was that we didn't deserve this.

 

As for funding bin Laden, I honestly don't know enough about that mess to say one way or the other, but I will say this: clearly, we didn't give anyone money with the understanding that they intended to use it against us.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

We had nothing to do with bin Laden specifically. We funded some factions of the Afghan revolt against the Soviets, but bin Laden's group wasn't one of them. Neither was the Taliban. That's a myth constructed by the historically ignorant.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Hence the Canadian government saying they will not support the USA in Iraq.

Oh no...If we don't have the mighty Canadian Army than there's no point in going.

 

I mean the Canadians could only afford to keep troops in Afghanistan for something like 2 months, and their military budget is only like 12.6 billion.

[Guest Phr33k]

They will not support the USA as in not being alright with an attack. Our Army wasn't going to get involved with Iraq anyway, we were just one of the first countries Dubya asked for support on the ouster of the Wacky Iraqi.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Yes the Canadian Army is small and we don't have a large budget for military operations but our armed forces are VERY well trained and very capable soldiers.

 

I know people who have served in the American armed forces and they've readily admitted that Canadian Soldiers are some of the best in the world.

 

We just don't dedicate the funds to it.

 

 

Also it wasn't just a budget reason our troops came home. I think having our ally kill 6 of our men was more than a small reason.

 

I'm not placing blame but the press did as did many other citizens so the government brought back the soldiers.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

You guys spend less than Luxembourg... man, that must be embarrassing.

[Guest Dames Edna]

I think Canada doesn't want to stick their nose into other peoples business. As that has also been another *theory* why America was attacked.

[Guest Phr33k]

We have had a string of bad governments up here since Trudeau quit for good. Mulroney + Campbell + Chretien = not a good election track record here.

 

Anyways, Jean's going nuts. If he's going to retire, the least he can do is let anyone in the cabinet who's interested campaign for the spot without throwing them out of it.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

You guys spend less than Luxembourg... man, that must be embarrassing.

So it's BAD to not fight? We don't need a large army because we get along with other countries.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

So it's BAD to not fight?

Yep. Because "all that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

 

We don't need a large army because we get along with other countries.

No, you don't need a large army because America is right here.

[Guest Dames Edna]

I agree we have become too dependant on the United States. We are basically their red haired step-child. I think Canada's reluctance is not because of this though. I think hearing many of the horror stories from past wars has deturred many from getting involved. The United States is much more patriotic as everyone there is considered "American". In Canada we feel we are multi-cultural. So instead of saying we are Canadian, we say we are Ukranian, German, ect... That kills a lot of patriotic pride, thus eliminates anyone from feeling it is their duty to go to battle.

 

I can't explain the popularity of going to war in America. When the first World War happened everyone was excited. They felt it was going to be a simple battle, and they'd be home in no time. In World War 2, many went because of their hatred for the Japanese. It was revenge based. And Vietnam was well - Vietnam. American pretty much lost the battle their, and suffered from the loss of thousans upon thousands of young soldiers.

[Guest MrRant]

I agree we have become too dependant on the United States. We are basically their red haired step-child. I think Canada's reluctance is not because of this though. I think hearing many of the horror stories from past wars has deturred many from getting involved. The United States is much more patriotic as everyone there is considered "American". In Canada we feel we are multi-cultural. So instead of saying we are Canadian, we say we are Ukranian, German, ect... That kills a lot of patriotic pride, thus eliminates anyone from feeling it is their duty to go to battle.

 

I can't explain the popularity of going to war in America. When the first World War happened everyone was excited. They felt it was going to be a simple battle, and they'd be home in no time. In World War 2, many went because of their hatred for the Japanese. It was revenge based. And Vietnam was well - Vietnam. American pretty much lost the battle their, and suffered from the loss of thousans upon thousands of young soldiers.

No shit it was revenge based moron. THEY ATTACKED US. You attack America and you will pay in blood.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

I can't explain the popularity of going to war in America.

Probably because it isn't popular at all. It takes several huge repeated shoves to get us to move in the direction of war.

 

The United States is much more patriotic as everyone there is considered "American".

Absolutely correct. America isn't just a country or a nationality; she's an idea - the most beautiful idea in the world. That's why she inspires such pride, such love, and such loyalty.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

No, you don't need a large army because America is right here.

 

Yep. We used to have a large army, but it was cut after the Liberals decided that we don't need to defend ourselves when the United States can do it for us.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Sad, really. Your conventional army used to be pretty damned good. Now, some vestiges are left, but that's all.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I for one think its horrible, but the Canadian public is very very stupid as far as defense is concerned. We haven't had a good Prime Minister since Borden. The best since then was a nutjob who talked to the spirit of his dead mother and said that Hitler was bluffing and no threat.

[Guest treble charged]

Absolutely correct. America isn't just a country or a nationality; she's an idea - the most beautiful idea in the world. That's why she inspires such pride, such love, and such loyalty.

You can have all that, but there is a reason why terrorists attacked the US over Canada, or any other western nation, for that matter.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

America is a target, not because of their attitude (the terrorists hate us just as much), but because it is the bigger target. It has more people, more pull internationally, and is a richer country.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Absolutely correct. America isn't just a country or a nationality; she's an idea - the most beautiful idea in the world. That's why she inspires such pride, such love, and such loyalty.

You can have all that, but there is a reason why terrorists attacked the US over Canada, or any other western nation, for that matter.

I thought it was because they were the most powerful western nation...

[Guest treble charged]

America is a target, not because of their attitude (the terrorists hate us just as much), but because it is the bigger target. It has more people, more pull internationally, and is a richer country.

Exactly.

 

I just find it hard to believe that so many people take pride in something that makes them the largest targets for terrorists out of all the countries in the western world.

 

Myself, I'd rather live in a country where the army is smaller, yet, where I'm safer from attacks such as those on last September 11.

[Guest MrRant]

Well Canada isn't threatening

 

If all of BC invaded Bellingham (pop. 60,000ish) I would say that Bellingham would win.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Well Canada isn't threatening

 

If all of BC invaded Bellingham (pop. 60,000ish) I would say that Bellingham would win.

why would you say that?

[Guest treble charged]

Well Canada isn't threatening

 

If all of BC invaded Bellingham (pop. 60,000ish) I would say that Bellingham would win.

Well, that would be rather pointless, wouldn't it?

[Guest MrRant]

I've never met a threatening Canadian. I mean... they are all behind K-Mart camping out.