UT and HHH are a cancer killing the WWE

[Guest RedJed]

Here is the problem that happened in the ME and why a rematch isn't going to amount to shit.......I read this over at Wrestling Observer in the Unforgiven feedback. This guy is right on track with what happened at the ppv. Major point is in bold.

 

"But for all the work of the younger guys, my hopes were crushed for their future by the rest of the PPV. HHH v. RVD was swerve for swerve's sake. The only way it could make sense is if they admit that the show is fake and that HHH is sticking it to Stephanie. Then there was the main event. UT undid 6 months of Lesnar's push in one night. Lesnar looked like a bitch. He won't draw heat again for a long time. The inmates are running the asylum, and I'm finally fed up with it."

 

Regarding Taker to the guy that thinks he's not a player politically.......how can you explain the feud with DDP last year? Or how about the fact that when he was a heel earlier this year, he hardly lost and when he won in most cases did cleanly? And how about this......why did Angle have to lose the title for him in July?

 

You gotta be blind and/or naive to not see whats up.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

All is not lost. Brock should beat him at the next PPV. "should" hmmmmmm.

 

The biggest problem is that Taker made Brock look like a bitch. 1. He had Brock beat but the ref. was down. Any need for that? 2. Heyman getting involved to help 3. Taker got the better of the post match brawl with ANOTHER choke slam 4. Taker beat his ass and threw him through the set.

5. Matt Hardy interfered too

 

Not only that but...

 

Taker made Brock look like a bitch on SmackDown! and RAW (A few months back).

 

Taker is a mark for himself regardless of the fact he is not a draw, and has never been the big star. He was a disgrace last night. I don't see how even Taker fans can defend him.

 

Taker is one of these "locker room leaders" who probably feels Brock needs to "earn" his place. But, let me ask you this: What did Mean Mark do to earn his instant push when he entered the WWF in the early 90s?

 

Fuck Taker.

[Guest TheHulkster]

Taker is such a cancer. I hear so many reports of him refusing to job, changing scripts, and disrespecting the younger talent from all the credible sources. Oh wait, no I don't. All I ever hear are good things about the Undertaker from WWE wrestlers and every credible news source. I'm not the world's biggest Taker fan, but making things up about him because they sound convenient is stupid. They did what they did tonight for a reason. If Brock had beaten the Undertaker tonight, after weeks of building up Taker's growing anger and his quest for Vengeance, not only would it make Taker look like a piece of shit (which may sound great to some people, but the Undertaker is very popular and has a loyal fanbase), but Brock wouldn't really have an opponent for the next PPV that would get a feasible buyrate. He can't really face Angle right now and who the hell would pay $35 to see the Undertaker, a guy who Brock beat already soundly, get his ass kicked by Brock again. They did what they had to do to not only keep a current main eventer strong, but to build a solid, lengthy, heated feud for a guy who they are trying to secure a place for in the main event. This will probably lead to a gimmick match at No Mercy, and it should. It wouldn't make any sense if it didn't.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Yeah, that's not the problem in my eyes. The problem is Taker has made Brock look so inferior so many times that its disgusting.

 

The Rock never did that, and he's 10 times the star that Taker is, was or ever will be.

[Guest Anglesault]

I didn't really mind the Taker/Brock finish. There is something about the useless wonder ending the legend that is the Undertaker after so many people couldn't that just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

[Guest Prime Time Andrew Doyle]

The problem is Taker has made Brock look so inferior so many times that its disgusting.

 

The Rock never did that

I agree. Wheras last month The Rock made Brock look like gold, 'Taker made Brock look like a big sack 'o shit

[Guest Trivia247]

now wait Rock makes everyone look like Gold. If Undertaker is the so called underseller, Rock is the Overseller. Give Rock a beating for the first 15 minutes and he'll bounce and bump for you. then he'll nip up hit his Humming bird like punches, his Sloppy Backdrop/Samoan Drop Mutant move and his Armpit over the shoulder Suplex, Not to mention his SCREAMING Sharpshooter, a Elbow drop that always need Jerry Lawler calling it the Most electrifying move in sports entertaining before Impact. If not, then its just....GASP a Elbow drop! and the Lazy Uranaga known as......the Rock Bottom!

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Rock put Brock over. Taker didn't. That simple.

 

So, now we get another Taker main event next month, where he will (again) make Brock look like shit before losing after ref. bumps, interference etc.

 

Another Taker singles main event! because the last 3-vs. HHH(DUD), vs. Hogan (DUD) and vs. Brock- have been sooooo good.

[Guest Trivia247]

Oh So its the not selling Ohhh Well Undertaker now sells as much as the Sandman did, and that was a improvement. You actually expect him to move mountains and Bump and sell like other people when he hasn't sold anything at least since he was the Master of Pain in USWA?

 

And if you know that he isn't gonna sell and bump around, then why Complain about it at all? Other than the need to Hate ....the Taker.

[Guest Caliban]

It's Ground Zero '97 - Badd Blood '97 all over again. People, the matches tonight will lead to bigger rematches. I'm pleased to see that they are actually building some semblance of a meaningful feud, at last.

[Guest MaxPower27]

You actually expect him to move mountains and Bump and sell like other people when he hasn't sold anything at least since he was the Master of Pain in USWA?

 

And if you know that he isn't gonna sell and bump around, then why Complain about it at all? Other than the need to Hate ....the Taker.

No, if we know that he's not going to bump around for guys, why the hell is he in the main event of an important PPV? Unforgiven was Brock's first real title defence, and Taker made him look like crap. Now someone before mentioned that UT has a loyal fanbase, I know that to be true. Therefore, he can afford a job to someone who's in desperate need of heat as a world champion.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Again, I don't mind that they are building the fued. It's the fact that Mean Mark gave Brock nothing and made him his bitch. Taker is a legend in his own mind. Taker could job more than once, it wouldn't effect his drawing power (which he doesn't really have) if he is such a popular guy. Lets face it, he was extremely selfish last night, you can still be a Taker fan without ignoring his shortcomings.

[Guest Trivia247]

well personally I wouldn't stop being the fan if he lost. Hell I thought he would job in order to build up Brock's credibility. But someone pointed out that this is a building point to a larger scale match. Which then Taker will probably lose. There was too much of a personal angle for Taker to simply lose. had they not had added Sara in the mix Taker probably would have lost straight to him. But Sara involve Taker goes into InvicaTaker. Next match probably gonna involve a gimmick. and He'll lose it...

 

 

ALL the while...

 

Waiting in the wings will be the real contender to defeat Brock, Angle or Benoit at this point. One of them between now and then would need to turn face. perhaps by Survivor series they will be ready to go at it.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Hopefully he will put Brock over clean next time (or at least make him look good) there is no reason for him not to.

[Guest Trivia247]

I believe it is setup to go that way. Now that Taker is seen as a bigger threat than anyone else, then Brock will push more. one or two F5's to put him down, and Taker will go down. Maybe after the match Taker will Tombstone or Powerbomb him to Keep his pride, but regardless the match Brock will win it. they will probably continue the Sara aspect of it.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Why does Taker have to get his heat back? He is old, it is believable that Brock could beat him clean.

 

If they are serious about Lesnar, he should pin Taker clean after one F-5, just like against Rock.

 

Hopefully, Taker will "do the right thing".

[Guest Trivia247]

well a big difference Rock jobbed so cleanly to Brock was he was going off to do that Helldorando Movie and didn't have to be on the day later to have to face people after losing. Espically a World title match.

 

Its conceivable that its not just Taker wanting to keep Taker as the Taker. Vince obviously ok'd this. Taker might not draw in the hearts n minds of Hundreds of Smarks, but he still get the Fan reaction. regardless if you dislike him or not. Hell even Haku has his fans...Me included. I remember seeing the front row of shirtless guys with big Samoan Afro Puff Wigs on Shouting out those Muttering grunts Haku does.

 

Taker will job, it will be a bigger match, Cage match, Something and he'll job and lay there bleeding. Then Brock will move on with the High of beating the Phenom and claim he is even more unbeatable, then Angle or Benoit will step up and challenge him, and that will be that.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

It's Ground Zero '97 - Badd Blood '97 all over again. People, the matches tonight will lead to bigger rematches. I'm pleased to see that they are actually building some semblance of a meaningful feud, at last.

Yeah, I see that too. I think we're seeing the beginning of the set up to HIAC, Brock/Taker for next month.

 

Brock needs that one big PPV match to really put him over, ala HHH/Foley, and WWE looks like their going with Taker and "HIS" match, Hell in a Cell.

[Guest Caliban]

I'm glad someone else sees where I'm coming from.

 

At the time Undi/HBK was slated for the non finish at Ground Zero.. but that led to the MOTY candidate Hell In The Cell match.

 

I think they're going the same route here - Brock/Taker HIAC won't be a MOTY by any means, but it will get Brock over if Undi does the right thing in a match which will be WAY more important than the Unforgiven match.

 

And I think this was one of Undertaker's better performances of the year. No sarcasm.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

well a big difference Rock jobbed so cleanly to Brock was he was going off to do that Helldorando Movie and didn't have to be on the day later to have to face people after losing. Espically a World title match.

 

Its conceivable that its not just Taker wanting to keep Taker as the Taker. Vince obviously ok'd this. Taker might not draw in the hearts n minds of Hundreds of Smarks, but he still get the Fan reaction. regardless if you dislike him or not. Hell even Haku has his fans...Me included. I remember seeing the front row of shirtless guys with big Samoan Afro Puff Wigs on Shouting out those Muttering grunts Haku does.

 

Taker will job, it will be a bigger match, Cage match, Something and he'll job and lay there bleeding. Then Brock will move on with the High of beating the Phenom and claim he is even more unbeatable, then Angle or Benoit will step up and challenge him, and that will be that.

You are all right on the Rocky jobbing so cleanly because of a movie and because he was only champ to put Lesnar over. It worked great because alot of people's opinion on Lesnar changed. Rocky HELPED Lesnar's career.

 

Taker HURT his career because Lesnar wasn't put over. It was the biggest bullshit ending on the night. The Austin/Angle from Last year wasn't bad because it wasn't the last match so people remember it leaving. Last night was met with a HUGE Bullshit and boos. Taker is only out for Taker. He needs to be fired. Brock Lesnar NEEDED to win last night.

 

If Lesnar won, he would have been made into a full main eventer. But politics have fucked him up so badly. First, he gets to reign over the entire fed, except RAW because HHH needs to be the top guy over everyone so the WWE title looks like a joke. Then he gets into a fued with Taker where he gets about 10 mins total time of more offense than Flair got in their battles leading up to Mania. And Brock only got 5 more mins of offense because he put a rest hold on him.

 

Lets now going over Taker's pop: For the longest Limp Bizkit got the pop, not Taker. Thats why when he first turned heel, he was still getting cheered. Then small boos through out the whole match of "This is boring boo" Then Limp Bizkit plays and people cheer. When he won the title from Hogan he had a new theme and no bike: No pop. When people figured it was Taker, still NO pop.

 

Taker should be made in to the Ric Flair role: Putting over everyone under the sun. EVERYONE should beat Taker. Starting with Brock, then Angle, then Benoit, then Spike Freaking Dudley. The last person Taker remotely put over was Jeff Hardy. And that was more of a squash with Jeff keep getting up. The rematch may as well be on Smackdown Tuesday because NO body wants to spend 35 bucks to see Taker's bullshit.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Oh, I didn't say I agree with how they did the Taker/Brock finish. That sucked! If they just "HAD" to get Taker out of jobbing again, then they could have at least had Brock get DQ'ed by beating the total crap out of Taker. Like throwing in the towel type of deal. Then continue the feud.

[Guest Caliban]

The reason for the DQ was lame. All they were doing was punching.

[Guest Mad Dog]

I don't understand why the Taker of all people has to be protected.

 

I mean Brock's already gone clean over guys who are bigger stars than the Taker ever was.

 

How many times is Taker going to tank ratings and buyrates before they get a clue.

[Guest evilhomer]

Taker might not draw in the hearts n minds of Hundreds of Smarks, but he still get the Fan reaction. regardless if you dislike him or not. Hell even Haku has his fans...Me included. I remember seeing the front row of shirtless guys with big Samoan Afro Puff Wigs on Shouting out those Muttering grunts Haku does.

Count me in as a fan of the Taker. It's an incredible mark out when Taker or anyone no sells and can get just about anyone over. Just the entire "Whoa that guys so incredibly tough" aspect of the moment appeals to so many in the crowd. I love to see it, and I find it as a moment of great high drama.

 

BUT, there comes a point where you've got to look out for the best interests of the business. There's no selling, and then there's "you fucking bastard give him some offence". From not tapping out while in two of the most feared submission holds to rolling out at 3.1 in one of his few jobs after getting hit by 4 finishers, Taker has consistently refused to do anything that might make him look weak.

 

The art of wrestling telling a story. Two opponents give each other their all and the better, or the luckier man wins. Since these aren't "real" fights, it's up to each opponent to sell each others moves as if they are truly taking the full impact. Done right, both opponents look great and the only signifigance of the victory is a visual stepping stone for the victor. Done wrong, and the crowd loves that tough guy that everyone wants to be and smarks worldwide bitch about the no seller killing his opponents heat.

 

Taker is written as someone who is difficult to hurt. He seems to take those instructions as impossible to hurt. He consistently either shrugs a move off as no impact, or if he does sell the move, there's no effect (match psychology) when his turn for offence comes back around. I find it ironic that he sold better as the dead man when his mystical powers gave a reasonable explanation for him not getting hurt. He would go down, then sit up due to his powers, he rarely even goes down anymore.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Because the broken down idiot has bad knees and a trick hip. He can't keep getting up fast.

[Guest Smark Hammill]

Insulting me is entirely unneccessary, but I guess it makes you feel better.

What's funny to me is that somehow "Mark" is an insult. Is it because I enjoy the wrestling without constantly ranting online? Or because you perceive me to be not as elite as you? Perhaps you saw my pitifully small post count and assumed I was a newb? Calling me a "Markboy" is the equivalent of me putting you down for not knowing the name of Spock's parents. For you see I would then be the elitist Star Trek smart mark and you would be the dumb old mark. In reality, I would just be a geek... what makes a smart mark for wrestling different?

 

Of course this is most likely futile; such is the way of the internet. You will most likely just flame at me again. Which is why I have such a low post count.

I would beat my OWN rear end to a bloody pulp if I ever called someone "Markboy" over the internet and thought I was actually effective insulting them. Don't worry about it. Just be glad you aren't a nerd, and you're not an elitist about something so stupid as pro wrestling.

[Guest humongous2002]

I was one of the many smarks that didn't want to see Brock as a WWE champ, I thought he was too green to be a top player, then Rocky proved me wrong by making Lesnar into a main eventer in one match(As much as certain people hate the Rock, the guy has been a company and has always tried to put people over, like Angle, Y2J, Brock, he even got pinned by RVD once in a tag team match) Brock became a huge commodity, and the fans were finally reacting to him, he was beginning to grow on people as the rookie monster that he is but Mean Mark had to step into the picture and pissed all over Brock's amazing push. This old, fat headed, big belly bastard made Lesnar look like his personal bitch and on top of that he refused to let Lesnar go over.What the fuck is Vince thinking, Lesnar is the future of the WWE, but he rather keep on pushing this over the hill wrestler who hasn't draw in years.

Now the match for the HGH belt, because that's what it is, the NWA already has a belt and WCW is dead and buried, and everytime the WWE mentions the belt, they just just say the world heavyweight title, but is it a WWE title? or a RAW title? or an AJPW title? from what company is that title from? Might as well have Tazz come out with an FTW belt and handed it to HGH because that's what that big gold belt is now, a FUCK THE WORLD title that doesn't mean crap, it has as much value as the dead European title,Hardcore title and Women's title combined, hell the IC title has more value than that big gold FTW belt(Think about it the IC title is now made of the European,Hardcore,US,and other 3+ titles combined). So RVD let that big nosed bastard keep his title and move to Smackdown, where you could go for the real WWE belt. HGH's FTW belt is useless, and even Crips knows about it, hopefully last night he got his ass potatoed by RVD big time, b/c either way you look at it RVD has been totally buried last night, now by the next ppv Rob will wrestle Flair for the Old and HGH will bored the crowd to death with Kane "groan"according to the No Mercy ad, unless they go for the Bubba feud, "big groan".

Back in 2000 a ppv called Fully Loaded we saw 3 up and coming wrestlers got buried. those wrestlers' were Benoit, Angle and Y2J, almost 2 years later they are still stucked in midcard limbo, Y2J first undisputed champ now IC champ again, Benoit feuding with Angle (who might be smart enough to get away from the HGH/Steph/UT bullshit and goes to train for the olympics by next year), last night was like it was Fully Loaded 2000 all over again and the same guys that buried those up and coming wrestlers back 2 years ago did it again with RVD and Lesnar at Unforgiven 2002. I guess Vince is trying to piss off the small amount of remaining loyal fans that the WWE has left.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Wow......there's actually people defending Taker.

Fact is not only did Brock not beat Taker but he was made to look like a bitch throughout the match.

Oh but wait there building up to a big rematch! Then why the hell did Taker make him look like a bitch before and after the match. Oh wait.....to garner interest for the next match. So the fans are going to tune in and see Taker do the same thing to Brock and then Paul E. interferes after the ref is bumped and Brock gets a shady victory. After the match Taker does a chokeslam to retain his heat. Who looks like a star here? Is it Brock? Nope Taker looks like the star even in losing. See that's the thing.....even if they job Taker and HHH still look like the star. That is why there's a fine line between jobbing and putting someone over. Sure HHH and Taker may job but they never put anyone over.

Oh yeah and what's this about people comparing it to HHH/Foley? Ummm.....HHH won every match against Foley....why can't Brock beat UT for 2 straight PPV's to make him look even more impressive. People came back to see Foley take on HHH a second time.....

[Guest tominator89]

My two cents: Want to know why I hated the finish from Unforgiven? Because as soon as the show went off the air, I disgustingly said "great, a rematch next month" and everyone in the bar groaned, but laughed because it's true. No one says wrestling is real, but it's not at all believeable that Brock should be man-handled by an old bastard like Undertaker. The match was boring, and NO ONE who I was with wants to see a rematch.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Building towards a rematch is fine, but Brock being made to look a total pussy is not. Why couldn't he beat the hell out of Taker with a chair to get the DQ?

 

Brock might win next month but it'll be from chair shots, feet on rope, belt shots, Heyman interference, a nuclear warhead...

 

Taker is over enough to job cleanly JUST ONCE in his life.