HHH Going Over RVD Was The Right Decision

[Guest Kamui]

The fans want RVD to win? That's exactly why Flair interfered to cost him the match. There is no way the chase for RVD's first World Title should be one month long. If WWE follows the timeline of having RVD beat Flair in a revenge match at No Mercy and then get the World Title in a rematch from HHH at Survivor Series, than they have made the right decision in RVD's title chase.

 

If they do not, then you can say having RVD losing to HHH at Unforgiven was the wrong decision. But if it plays out the way I think it will, tonight's match-result was the right one.

 

I don't defend Taker-Brock's decision, though, even if that leads to a rematch. Brock needed to squash Taker to keep his momentum going, now it doesn't matter if Brock beats Taker at No Mercy (and it's not like it's going to be a clean win anyway).

 

-Duo

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I think the problem is in the fact that his has been put off for way too long in the first place and that HHH isn't doing much for the "World Title" anyway so keeping it on him longer isn't going to help the title have credibility so why do it?

 

It needs to be put on someone that can make the fans care about it. When you realize a mistake you have made like giving the title to HHH then you don't prolong it just out of hopes that the fans will turn around. You fix that mistake and THEN begin the credibility process with someone it will work on.

[Guest Kamui]

I don't think giving HHH the title was a mistake, I think the way they gave him the title was a mistake. HHH is fine as RAW's top heel- he's not a good top face and shouldn't be one, but top heel? I have no problems with him in that regard. And the average mark still sees HHH as a top player, so I don't think you need to take the title off of him so quickly- that will only de-value the title further. Keep it on HHH, give him a title retain against someone at No Mercy while RVD is beating Flair, and then drop the title from HHH to RVD at Survivor Series and you've got a fine scenerio that elevates RVD (he gets wins over Flair and HHH, and the World Title), keeps the credibility of the World Title (no more one-month-title-reigns), and establishes RVD as the top face of RAW.

 

-Duo

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

RVD doesn't need to be established as the top face on RAW.

 

He was that...has been since Austin left.

 

Losing doesn't do anything to cement that.

 

Here's why RVD should have won:

 

How many stars does the company have?

 

Take sentimental favorites out...and how many people do they push as stars?

 

2.

 

HHH and Taker...and look at that...neither one lost again.

 

WOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

[Guest BlackRainbow1025]

I wouldn't have cared near as much if I thought the HHH-RVD would continue, but I'm guessing Flair and RVD will be feuding now, which is stupid b/c they've killed Flair's credibility enough where no one would be surprised or care if RVD beats him. If they were going to have HHH cheat, he should've done so himself and of course, continue the feud so RVD can take the belt from him soon enough.

[Guest Kamui]

But bps, doesn't the title chase mean more if RVD beats Flair at No Mercy and then goes onto beat HHH at Survivor Series in the re-match? I think it does. One-month-title-chases do nothing for a face, but a longer title chase has the chance of finding an auidance and does more for the face that wins in the end. That's what I think, and hope, will happen here, but maybe I'm just too optimistic *shrug*.

 

-Duo

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Maybe I'm not being clear...

 

that would be super...if the feud continues.

 

But I am here to say...I don't beleive it will.

 

RVD has been over enough to warrant the top spot on his show for over a year now...beaten every top star and been falsely elavated now...what...4 times?

 

Time will eventually run out on how many times you can beleivably trick fans into thinking they are getting what they want.

 

I said when they pulled the false switch with Taker that the next time for RVD had to be THE time.

 

Plus I am not a big fan of the guy who says he is going to win (especially the heel) going out and doing it.

 

At least it took interference...but even then...the interference just leads away from the rematch that makes your idea work.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I said it in another thread.

 

I just think we've all lost faith in the WWE to actually pay off in the end. Especially with HHH the way he is.

[Guest RedJed]

Maybe I'm not being clear...

 

that would be super...if the feud continues.

 

But I am here to say...I don't beleive it will.

 

RVD has been over enough to warrant the top spot on his show for over a year now...beaten every top star and been falsely elavated now...what...4 times?

 

Time will eventually run out on how many times you can beleivably trick fans into thinking they are getting what they want.

 

I said when they pulled the false switch with Taker that the next time for RVD had to be THE time.

 

Plus I am not a big fan of the guy who says he is going to win (especially the heel) going out and doing it.

 

At least it took interference...but even then...the interference just leads away from the rematch that makes your idea work.

I completely agree with ya, this same problem occured with Jericho, I think. They did the bait and switch with him so much and he kept getting the up and down push that people started to not buy him as a threat. This is irrelevant if anyone thinks he is in their own mind or not, the point was that apparently their intention was to get him to become a threat since they gave him the world title last year. By that point the fans didnt take to him much at all, even when he beat Rock for the WCW title. A clear case of too little too late. Look at when he apparently beat Trips on that Raw for example, crowd went apeshit. Fast forward a little over a year later when he beat Rock........far less people giving a shit by that point.

 

The problem even with a future rematch is that hardly anyone will buy RVD as a threat now since he has completely been dogged in promos by HHH that he wasn't at HHH's level, etc, etc. He wasnt made to look like any threat in that match either, if you ask me. Now if he would have kicked out of Trips' finisher, maybe.

 

I'm not even a fan of Van Dam (dont like his spotty trademark crap) but there is no denying they've teased these title opportunities too far now and its past delivering after tonight. Ironically, when he would do tiny programs with Taker (last one at the Undisputed title level) a similar result happened from this. In fact the last time Taker and Van Dam worked together in a tag on Raw, Van Dam lost clean to Taker. Now what will probably happen is tomorrow on Raw, there will be a tag ME and Triple H will pin Van Dam clean to solidify his spot, and then they will do a rematch down the road. Will I care though? Fuck no. This is how screwed up the booking is, seriously.

 

I just don't see why HHH can't do a ppv job to someone they've apparently had hopes of elevating for over a year, and yet he puts up no qualms to doing it for Shawn Michaels. Actually I have a few answers to that......they're friends and Shawn isn't a threat at this point to his spot. Van Dam is.

 

Believe me, I'm trying to ignore the fact that Taker and HHH are like they are, but its not hard to see the facts of things and base things from them. Taker and HHH hold guys down, period.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Should RVD have won the belt? No.

Should HHH have won the match? No.

 

Just another case of the Wwf booking themselves into a corner. This match should never have been made in the first place.

[Guest Mazelmavin]

Here is something to think about.

 

From where I sat in Staples Center, HHH a lot of face heat. Mostly boos, but still a lot of cheers.

 

Strange...

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

The fans want RVD to win?

 

So we'll piss them off! that'll help!

 

That's exactly why Flair interfered to cost him the match.

 

Because the fans wanted RVD to win, a man who will NEVER be booed by the fans turns heel on him for NO APPARENT REASON with NO BUILDUP? In other words "We'll fuck these fans and they'll like it!"

 

There is no way the chase for RVD's first World Title should be one month long.

 

He's been chasing it for awhile, as recently as when he lost to Taker after beating him. It's a convienient excuse, but it will piss off fans to keep screwing RVD.

 

If WWE follows the timeline of having RVD beat Flair in a revenge match at No Mercy

 

Which will help neither of them.

 

and then get the World Title in a rematch from HHH at Survivor Series

 

*coughwhenhellfreezesovercough*

 

than they have made the right decision in RVD's title chase.

 

HHH injuring himself like HBK did to make him job and stay away for four years wouldn't hurt either.

 

If they do not, then you can say having RVD losing to HHH at Unforgiven was the wrong decision.

 

As the world says now.

[Guest RedJed]

I thought of something and now that the situation is how it is now, it adds some credibility and truth in my eyes.

 

HHH had a chance to right the wrong of the past year by being a team player and elevating Van Dam tonight and he didn't. I don't care what anyone says, they can't be naive enough to think that he doesn't have pull in the booking, because he does and he could have said RVD should be elevated tonight. And he should have given the situation when you think about it.

 

Why?

 

Between the pseudo-feuds with Austin, Jericho, Taker and now HHH, they have all amounted to up and down execution of the chase for RVD. In Austin's case, there was really no fault there as Vince decided it was probably too early to give him the title, plus Austin had just lost it and won it back from Angle, so it would have just been bad for the belt.

 

The point in contention is the deal where Jericho and Van Dam started feuding right after Jericho won the title in December. The week before on Raw, Van Dam got a solid rub from Jericho, almost beating him and winning by DQ thanks for a run-in by Vince.....

 

The next week Triple H returns and the Van Dam-Jericho feud stops out of nowhere. There might have been a blowoff of sorts in a tag match(?) Anyway I remember people talking conspiricy back then about it, and I didn;t buy into it. It was just coincidence that HHH returned and started chasing the belt and at that same time the Van Dam push towards that was dropped. But now I wonder. Even a small thing such as HHH being the one to pedigree and eliminate Van Dam at the Rumble in no time flat too, makes me wonder.

 

Point is that coincidence or not, Trips should have noticed how that all went down when he returned, and in doing whats "right" for the company and towards his fellow man in the business, he should have laid down for him tonight. It's called a payback of sorts.

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

RedJed - In all fairness, it was Booker T who threw out RVD at the Rumble. But I do remember Van Dam being dead for two minutes after the Pedigree, up until his elimination.

[Guest RedJed]

Yup, that was the move that technically "killed him." Hell, wasn't it the ONLY move that anyone accomplished to hit on RVD in that match? Makes it even more weird.

[Guest jester]

There is no way the chase for RVD's first World Title should be one month long.

The problem with the chase is that it's for a worthless belt. They apparently want the belt to be seen as something valuable. I'm sorry, but I don't see a belt that was already unified and then given away as having any value. Even if they put it on a tough contender for a few months, I'll always remember where it came from.

 

I am totally opposed to their being two World titles or whatever you want to call them. But if they were going to do it, it should have been a new belt, and there should have been a tournament for it.

[Guest Human Fly]

HHH is going to feud with Bubba Dudley now over the "World Title". This is what we get for RVD not winning the title tonight.

 

If RVD wins the title at Survivor Series will it be good? Yes. But will it be that much better that it will make the next month of HHH - Bubba Dudley worth it? No.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

In my mind there are two big problems.

 

1) RVD has been in the "chase" for a LOT longer than a month. This pay off has been teased for awhile now.

 

2) In my eyes up until RVD lost the IC title he was the real RAW champion anyway cause his belt meant more. His title was the IC, US, Euro, and HC titles all in one.

[Guest RedJed]

The problem with the chase is that it's for a worthless belt. They apparently want the belt to be seen as something valuable. I'm sorry, but I don't see a belt that was already unified and then given away as having any value. Even if they put it on a tough contender for a few months, I'll always remember where it came from.

I still think it could work somehow if they got it on someone who was deserving of it and did the traditional "take on all comers" deal or something. They would have to blatantly and publicly acknowledge that the title needs prestige returned to it by the babyface who would hold it. And that babyface would have a purpose to strive for that the fans could get under and be into.

 

They did a piece on Confidential last week about the title, and if they would air vignettes of that on Raw occasionally, that would help out too, I think.

 

Honestly, they could still right a wrong and do a one night tourney on Raw, even though it would be admitting fault on their part. Just have a match end in controversy (double pin or whatever) and the title is held up. The next week it's a one night tournament, or whatever. Even build it up to the next ppv if you have to.

 

Whoever the babyface would be to hold it, I wouldn't even bother changing up the title until the eventual re-unification of them at next years Mania. Thats how badly that title needs rebuilding. It wasn't exactly holding alot of prestige when WCW died, if you recall.

[Guest RedJed]

2) In my eyes up until RVD lost the IC title he was the real RAW champion anyway cause his belt meant more. His title was the IC, US, Euro, and HC titles all in one.

I agree. The way they kept having him win those unification matches made me think they were working towards elevating him more and in turn, elevating the IC to a level where eventually a point could be made that it was on a similar level as the Undisputed title and was the "Raw belt".

 

Another lost cause in booking. Just watch now, they'll bring back the HC, US, and Euro belts back in a short while to totally create mass confusion.

[Guest jester]

I still think it could work somehow if they got it on someone who was deserving of it and did the traditional "take on all comers" deal or something.

That would certainly help the belt's credability. But that would also mean that the current holder would have to run over a good chunk of the roster.

 

And who is the current holder? I don't want to see him run around the locker room while all the other wrestlers flee in terror yet again.

 

Do these last few booking decisions make the situation impossible to salvage? No. But they make it a lot trickier to handle. And the situation is in the hands of a company that thinks a live crowd of mostly men will be more thrilled with Bischoff's head up Rikishi's ass than two women necking.

[Guest Kinetic]

I agree with the "this was the right decision if the pay-off is RVD getting the belt at Survivor Series" theory. Having the belt change hands in a feud that's lasted all of three weeks is what's known as "hotshot booking" and would ultimately be detrimental to that belt's already microscopic credibility. If anyone other than Triple H or Undertaker were holding the belt, I'm sure most of you would agree with me. Having RVD chase the title, overcome obstacles, and finally get it at a major PPV is a potentially hot angle and one that I, personally, would like to see. Whether or not they'll execute it properly is anyone's guess. Having Flair join forces with Triple H will be a step in one of two wildly diverse directions, but it's something else that I think has potential. Yeah, I'm being optimistic and the booking team's track record this year doesn't indicate that they're capable of something like this. But I can dream.

[Guest RedJed]

If I had to pick one guy to do this job of trying to make the world title credible again, it would be Angle. Don't ask me how, maybe don't even bother trying making him a face to start, but by the end of it have Angle coming off like an oldschool type of champ who maybe starts off more of a tweener than anything, but backs up his words and delivers in the matches and his promises of making the belt credible. Moreless a modern day version of Flair in his prime. He takes on faces and heels and doesn't cheat, but can break rules in contexts that it doesn't affect a finish.

 

This would lead to Mania where Angle would even take it up another notch by unifying the belts again and going back to the formula of taking on anyone in either company. As far as the WWE title goes, I think Lesnar should lose it at some point before Mania, but show backbone and credibility by regaining it soon after. Leave the major title switches at that.

 

I also think by Mania time, it would be cool if both Angle and Lesnar were faces or at least one was a face and the other a tweener.

 

I would say Van Dam could be this man, but sadly that's just too little, too late.......or should I say too long, too late!! A chase for the title through 4 different champions with nothing to show for it in a one year period is just bad handling of Van Dam and it's finally hurting him after tonight.

[Guest Kinetic]

He's never really chased the title for a lengthy period of time, though. The only title shots he's gotten on PPV were at No Mercy last year and tonight. That's it. So he's basically a fresh face in the main event scene who's extremely over and damn near beat Triple H on several occasions tonight. What's the problem?

[Guest Trivia247]

and between those two PPV shots, RVD would get those mini title shots or mini title programs with champions during the shows but get dropped. in favor for others going against the Champs.

[Guest Kinetic]

Well, that happens. But if they're ready to give him a genuine and sustained push--and they really must realize how over he is--then none of that will be relevant. People weren't talking shit about Steve Austin losing strap matches to Savio Vega when the WWF decided to push him to the main event. What matters is how over you are when you get that main event push and how good the booking is. Simply put, RVD is going to be more over now than he was last Monday, and that's all you can ask from the booking committee. They did their jobs correctly for once. Now all they have to do is follow up on it.

[Guest MrRant]

You forget the logic of all their arguments Kinetic.

 

HHH won so there is no push. No matter how big the push RVD gets if HHH ever wins any matches in a feud with anyone HHH is holding them down. They say how the WWE needs to plan in advance. Well what if they are? What if the plan is RVD takes care of Flair on his road to the title and HHH? Sounds like long-term planning to me.

[Guest treble charged]

Right now, in my opinion, RVD looks stronger than he ever has in the WWE. All this coming out of a loss, to HHH, of all people. If gets a win over Flair at No Mercy (and if Flair doesn't get beaten by the whole Raw roster between now and then), that only serves to strenghten him, so he can turn his attention back to HHH and the belt in time for Survivor Series.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

So who gets Trips in the interim? I say DA BOOKERMAN!

 

Just not Buh-Buh. Maybe give him a shot on one show, and leave it at that.

 

Fo sheez,

Kotzenjunge

[Guest treble charged]

Yeah, I'd say HHH feuds with Booker, while Goldust worries himself with Jericho. Helps elevate both Booker and Goldust, in my mind.