Well, I'am retired.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

To be quite honest, school work has been murdering me and I haven't really had the time to write anymore. I obviously just haven't been happy with the way things went in the SWF.

 

And now I shoot: I'am not a good writer, I'am not a fair writer. I'am a bad writer, but I like wrestling. That's all I've ever claimed to be. I do take winning and losing too seriously, I'am just an emotional person like that. For whatever reason, becoming successful in this fed meaned alot to me in internet land which I now recognize as a big mistake.

 

Sure I questioned the markers, sure I insulted the markers. I've always been honest, sometimes to honest. But what the hell, no sense in keeping your mouth shut when your unhappy with something. I also did alot more than bitch, and have praised several matches including ones that beat me. When I feel I should have won, I spoke up. When I feel I lost, I admited it. What was so wrong about that? I'll answer for you, nothing.

 

And to clear one thing up: I ditched techincal wrestling after my first retirement. I moved on up to a Power Wrestler/Brawler.

 

 

TNT-Thank you for being very friendly, and supportive. Don't fuck up like me, and actually ask a marker why he picked a match. If you keep your mouth shut, and write you will be the World Champ some day. Easily, the coolest guy in the fed.

 

Edwin-Thanks for the support, and the push into the SWF. I do believe you made the remark that I have the best psychology of anyone in the entire federation history. That comment was a real confident boost, that kept me motivated. Even if I heard it second hand.

 

Frost-You have always been friendly, and supporitve as well. Keep working hard, and you'll also be the Champ one day. I believe in the voting, I called you the best writer in the fed cause it's true.

 

Outcast-Thanks for the promos. Even if you didn't finish the series, just writing one promo for me is somethiing I'am grateful for.

 

Wilson-Thanks for letting me in M7, and for considering my ideas for War Games.

 

Xero-Thanks for teaming with me, and being one of the few people in the fed who would actually work in angle with me. You did a damn good job.

 

Francis-Great guy, who always showed me more support than I was entitled to.

 

Annie-Thank you for the comments about my psy. Your an underappreicated talent, and that I can relate too.

 

Thor-Thanks for the match offer. You better believe it's still on for Genesis.

 

 

I apologize to Silent for making comments about him, behind his back.

 

I apologize to Tod, for sometimes insulting his matches.

 

I apologize to Thoth, for making fun of his match against me, one time too many.

 

I apologize to Stubby, for overreacting to the Dumpster stip.

 

But a huge "I love the Cock" must be said to the Suicide King. you were right about me. I really am that big of a jackoff.

 

And Ace, I have mixed feelings about you. I'am a fan of your work, but your uncalled for comments on the Losing Match thread will definetly leave a bad last impression. And I know that I'am not funny, but it's not like you are fucking Richard Pryor.

 

So Goodbye everyone. It's been a fun ride, and I'am glad that I was giving a chance. I'am still a reg on the General and Old School board. And I will most defintely devote some time to reviewing SJL/SWF matches, and what not.

[Guest Thoth]

Well... always sad to see someone retire... I'm still sorry I wrote you blind charging a jillion times, but I was blanking.

 

But try not to go out like Munich, 'kay?

 

-Thoth

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Well damn, yo. I've always said you've been getting progressively better. Here's hoping that you get a drive to return once you schoolwork sorted. It's a big push and it's taking a lot of us out presently, but everyone comes back.

 

Seeya round, Danny.

[Guest Kibagami]

One less puro mark in the fed. There's less of us every day.

 

It's always a downer to see people go, even if they've talked about you behind your back and you didn't know until they retired and then you were mildly annoyed but not really since they apologized and you didn't know what the hell they were talking about and anyway they mark for puro and you mark for puro so you just say 'bye' and hope they come back soon and mark for puro some more.

 

What?

 

I said, come back soon!

 

S.

[Guest WrestlingDeacon]

Thank you for your kind words Danny and don't think I didn't think of you in my voting as well. As I said in my ballot, the cage match with you was one of the times I was glad I lost, because it was such a superior product. I always found you to be a very hard worker and someone who was constantly improving while trying to stay true to their own style. I know we convinced you to come back once before, maybe we all can again. Good luck to you.

[Guest BA_Baracus]

PROMO (Stubby P. McWeed);

"Don't quit and I'll give you a cookie.

 

Uhhh...a Japanese cookie. Yeah. The kind uhhh...Muto eats. That's it.

 

Mothernature says..."

[Guest Ace309]

Danny, I hate that this is the impression I leave you with.

 

For whatever reason, I've never been able to phrase what I wanted to say to you in a manner that indicated exactly what I wanted to say without being offensive. At some point, I just gave it up because it seemed to be more effort than it was worth. I'm sorry to see you go. Seriously, I am.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

"On my read-through at least, your humor was wooden, your commentators were flat and flavorless like a poorly-mixed martini and the match per se was not compelling enough to overcome that deficit. Your gay jokes were forced and you ignored places where they should have gone in,

 

The medium is the written word. If two workers went out and worked a match where they were as stiff as jello, even if they had the greatest technical match in the history of the sport, the match would be lacking. Your matches are lacking because the commentary is unentertaining. Like it or hate it, that's what happens in a matchwriting e-fed.

 

Now go buy King a beer. I'm sure the thread's still buried somewhere."

 

 

After reading back over my comments on the thread, I think I was very respectful and did nothing to merit this kind of bullshit. I don't think the commentary was that bad, my commentary seemed more average than flat out unreadable like you make it out to be. It's certaintly light years beyond what it was in the SJL.

 

Nobody seems to mind, the commentary in my tag matches which isn't vastly different from the commentary in my singles matches. Yes, I did write all my own commentary for my portions of the tag matches. I was also pleasently surprised when people believed that Strangler wrote the commentary for out tag match, when all he did was add a joke and correct the grammar. I also didn't see any comments on how the commentary got so drastically bad during the middle of War Games. If my commentary was as shitty as people made it out to be, I think it would have stuck out inbetween two of the greatest commentary writers in the fed(TNT and Frost).

 

 

Maybe it has something to do with the power of suggestion, or that the commentary in those matches was simply just better. Who knows?

 

And the stiff as jello comment, makes no damn sense.

[Guest Beingz0wningj00]

If I recall correctly... you said King made a mistake while marking, but it was ok because humans make mistakes.

 

 

Jesus... if Flesher could write lines like that he'd be the top heel in the fed, no questions asked.

 

 

I remember how you went on once about the commentary in Puro or something, with some backdrop driver match and some guy being the man. I clearly forget the names at the moment but it was a very interesting bit on psychology. Think of how that added to the match.

 

 

As for comedy... that makes things interesting. When you get a laugh out of something, it is usually easier to enjoy it.

 

 

The one thing I dislike about most Japan psychology is they never keep it simple for the average fan. Simplicity builds the fan bases... and it's simple when you beat up a leg that it's hard for someone to stand. Shit like that.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

Now King's response:

 

"Dammit Danny, if you wrote as well as you whined, you'd be the most prolific title holder in SWF history. Jesus Christ... one little loss in a non-title match and all of a sudden it's the biggest crisis ever facing our fed. I wasn't going to respond to this since I hadn't had a chance to review your match again yet, in order to send you the detailed scrubbing I know you desire so dearly... but a few of your colleagues wrote me, complaining about the frequency and low quality of your constant droning. So, since many of your colleagues requested it, I read the latest entries here."

 

Like I said on my big retirement post, I do alot more than whine. I have always showed up, worked hard, and gave credit when I felt it was do. I have devoted countless hours to this federation, mabye not as much as you have, but enougth to show that I care about this little fed of ours.

 

If I feel I should have won a match, I will of course speak up. "Nothing changes nothing" so I don't see why I should sit on my ass and keep my mouth shut. How else can I improve, if I don't undestand what I did wrong? Alot of people mistake that as being a sore loser or bitching, but the one thing I learned here is that if you are LOUDER you will get a better response.

 

It was very unfair of me, to make the comments on the last post on the thread or even the "Fuck you" on this one. And since I feel like I have found inner peace, I apologize.

 

As for my so called "colleagues", I don't know who you are. But you played a big role in my decision to quit. I have no idea why you guys would complain about something that is none of your business. That's like me bitching about Pete for quiting over his issue with Stubby and Wilson. This gave me a srong feeling, of being no longer welcome here and I don't stay where I don't feel welcome.

 

"Well, boyo, don't believe the press releases your imagination is putting out. You really are not the greatest technical writer our fed has ever produced. Hell, many of your matches that I've had the misfortune to read have read like stereo assembly instructions. In Swedish. Written by Helen Keller."

 

At least Tom's argument had some truth to it. I never claimed to be this so called greatest techincal writer, that's why I ditched the Junior style. Yes, many of my JL matches were damn right horrible, and impossible to read. But I don't see how those matches have anything to do with the rather simple match I wrote against Tod. Which by no means was a techincal match, and confusing to read. I took everyone's advice, and did the best I could to improve. I'am sure you might have started off a little sloppy too, but that doesn't have any effect on the wrestler you became.

 

If you are indeed refering to my recent matches, as being that difficult to read than I'am doing the right thing by retiring. Cause I don't see how I could make them easier to read. Two sentence paragraphs in all caps maybe.

 

But if by techincal writer you mean good psychology. To be honest, I would say that I do have very good psychology in my writing. It's what I put the most effort into, so I guess it is going to be my strongest category. I'am not dillusional by any means, since everyone I have worked with has complimented me on my ability to put together a match.

 

Though, I never said I was the best, nor do I believe I'am the best. Edwin made that statement, not me, but for that I thank him cause it was certaintly the nicest compliment I have recieved since being here.

 

 

 

 

"Well, since you obviously know all there is to know about writing, I'll just wait to see you in the main event at Genesis 3, and I'll be the first in line to congratulate you on your many impressive title reigns. But til then, if you know it all, don't bother asking me for things like advice, matches, or extensions."

 

I have never asked you for an extension or a match, if I did it was certaintly not recent. There is one fact you can't take away from me, and that I always turned my matches in all time. If I no showed, I always sent a pm days in advance, with an explanation for absence.

[Guest Beingz0wningj00]

You attacked him first... King isn't just going to back down and say "Give it to me in the ass" unless you're MrGalatea(BONG)

 

I think he was a little harsh in his word choices, yes. However you bitch about some crazy stuff. Lord knows I'm not the best writer in this fed... hell... I think I finally broke over 500 when I include the amount of matches I jobbed via noshow.

 

There's been times when I was downright pissed off about losing. There's been times when people have been downright pissed off about losing to me. Does it matter... well yes and no.

 

 

 

I confess I haven't read many of your matches... but believe it or not... I had problems similar to yours...

 

you have to know how to combined innovative spots, with decent to excellent wording and keep the match itself entertaining. It is a very difficult system to master and I don't think anyone has truly mastered it yet... Thugg was pretty good at it as was King. I'm not saying that because they were markers but for the simple fact that they can do their shit.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, like Thoth said... don't go out like Munich did. Just calm down, take a break, but believe me, you are welcome back.

[Guest SupaTaft]

Sorry to see you go. But don't worry, because at Genesis, you'll be the star of our match no matter what the outcome.

 

I may not dig Puro, but I certainly mark for "Deathwish" Danny Williams.

 

-Taft

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

Some more thank yous:

 

Mafia/Manson-Thank you very much for choosing me, to ask about improving your character's moveset. And thank you for liking my ideas. I was also very flattered that you called me one of the greatest writers in the fed, which recently hasn't seemed to be the case.

 

Rickman-Despite the puro snob remarks towards the end, you have always been great to work with.

 

Tod-Can't believe I missed you on the first post. You were one of the few people to actually ask me to work an angle with. I do like your matches, and in fact your one of the few writers where I understand what the hell is going on during the match. Thanks for always being supportive.

 

Silent-Don't worry the remarks were not personal. I just felt Francis and CIA desreved your bump, and I was upset with you for no showing a few times when you were giving such a big push that I could only wish for. No hard feelings. You have good taste in wrestling, and seem like a cool guy.

 

 

Ash/Beingz-for complements in the comment and prediciton threads.

 

A Japnese cookie is tempting, but I must decline. I think I will retire for good now. Thanks to everyone for positive responses.

[Guest Kibagami]

Eh, they were most likely fair critiques at the time. Ain't no thang. Hurry up and get back here so we can have a Battlarts exhibition of a match and make all the North American fans go to sleep simultaniously, allowing us to abscond with the Tag Team titles while they're napping.

 

Oh, and I'll give you TWO Japanese cookies.

 

And Megumi Kudo.

 

S.

[Guest Tod deKindes]

Well. There goes one less guy to hold down. Did I just type that?

 

Seriously though, our three-way feud bitchrocked the JL and set the example for the kids.

 

Guzzizah.

[Guest Chuck Woolery]

Actually, I was inspired by Xstasy, Suicide King, Chris Jericho, Edge, and Rob Van Dam.

 

[Guest TheBostonStrangler]

Yo Dan, sorry to see you go. Every now and then we fought, but it seems like you fought with almost everyone around here. Not that that's a bad thing. Your fights came about because you cared greatly about the fed, and making it a better place. You had strong principles, and would stick to them, no matter what. I may not agree with them, but I can sure as hell respect you for that. That tag match you wrote was truly good stuff. Sure, you aren't a great writer, but oyu have a great mind for wrestling, which is rarer and rarer around here. If me and you ever come back someday, we should team together again. With your incredible wrestling skillzzz, and my anal grammar, we would rule the world! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Sorry bout that. Anyways, come back someday. No matter what you may think, they always come back. Don't be the exception that proves the rule, man.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

You have anus grammar, TBS?

 

[Guest KingOfOldSchool]

Mafia/Manson-Thank you very much for choosing me, to ask about improving your character's moveset.  And thank you for liking my ideas.  I was also very flattered that you called me one of the greatest writers in the fed, which recently hasn't seemed to be the case.

Sorry to see you go out, and what I said still holds true about you. You were onto something back when I faced you in the JL, during your comments about our respective winning and losing matches...Ever since then I had to step back and take a look at what was flawed. I feel that I've become a better writer, whenever I'm able to actually put in the effort, since I came back to the fed, with you to thank for tightening up my moveset and offering your opinion.

 

I was hoping that you or anyone wouldn't go out like Munich, leaving a bad taste, but whatever, you said what you felt needed to be said. Despite what you percieve as an unwelcome feeling, don't be a stranger.

[Guest CED Ordonez]

Japanese cookies rule for they are mightily tasty.

 

Dammit, I'm depressed now. First Z, and now one of the puro fans goes down.

 

You be a cool guy and did what was best for the fed when push came to shove, i.e. returning to the JL when various disappearances threatened it's well being.

 

*Gives a 21 highkick salute to Danny, who in turn no-sells them all like a fucking man's man.*

 

See ya around.

[Guest crusen86]

Sucks to see you go. Especially over something like this. But I know what you mean.

 

Come back soon.

[Guest Suicide King]

Sigh. In the old days we knew how to take an insult.

 

Now I must post the obligatory "please don't quit over this asinine stuff" post.

 

Please don't quit over this asinine stuff.

 

There, I've done my part.

 

Now seriously... dude, if you don't want me to take things personally, I would recommend you do the same. I don't like you, I'll admit it, but that doesn't mean I want to see you go or ever grade your matches unfairly either. You're a good writer who brings a different (not better, just different) style to the fed and that is always a good thing. Reconsider. If you have the time for us, pursue it. You can be damned good when you want to be, as I have also seen from some of your matches. You know, those matches other than the Swedish stereo instructions.

 

I've said my peace.

[Guest redbaron51]

Now I am not the greatest writer in the fed, nor the best technical writer, or the most grammatical writer in this fed (I have the worst IMO), but losing is a part of life. You can never win every single game, unless you are Bill Gates . People hate losing, I hate losing, and I have complained and bitched about it, (IE me losing to Roja, me losing to LDP) yet that has not taken away from what I love about the SWF, I like writing, and I actually feel good about it, and it has now become a hobby of mine to write, because I like to write.

 

But there has been one gripe with this federation, and I'll say it again. If commentary, especially humour affects so much on the match, then many like me Danny and a few others are in a real disadvantage, because humour is not really what we go for, instead like Danny and I is go for a solid wrestling match.

 

Everyone has their own style, some people can write a match with humour but with a poor match quality, and the pacing and flow isn't there. Some people can write a damn well technical match, like a Benoit match, but can make it boring as an Earthquake vs Typhoon match.

 

Some people don't have a great vocabulary skills, and maybe not that great elaborating on certain parts in the match, that it is hard for them to describe.

 

None of them should be taken away from marking, because if some one loves a humour match over a technical match, its most likely that person will like Tod instead of Renegade's match. (use different names not to get flamed) and a person like John (hide the identity of the innocent) will give the match to Tod instead.

 

Danny I'll say this, and I've been here the longest, and I will say this. Every different marker has a different tidbit towards a match. I'd admit this, for example Grimedogg would like a match that is technically sound, flows well, delt with a story, than humour and comedy, because he felt that it should be a wrestling match, not a comedy schtick.

 

Now maybe Edwin likes a comedy match, and will prefer a Z match instead of Flexxx. If its funny, and if everyone else is funny, but yet it is still acceptable wrestling, even though if its not the best writing ability, they might favour that match.

 

Now is this a flame for the markers, and not anyone else. No. But each match should be looked at equally before you can judge.

[Guest SupaTaft]

Hey...

 

Don't diss Earthquake and Typhoon.

 

-Taft

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Marking is difficult. It's a balance. And honestly, my main marking issue isn't with "commentary," per se. Commentary can be effective or not--you can use it or you don't have to. People like Fallout and ELM rarely use it--people like Flesher and myself use it lots. Commentary, as in what the announcers say, can be used to put over moves or what's happening...and really, pretty much everyone here does that fine.

 

The important measure is not commentary itself, but the content commentary often includes. It's usually in commentary that we see psychology, match history, and the attitudes of the wrestlers involved explained and conjectured upon. If you can work this into your description, great.

 

Description *is* something I look for. I'll tell you right now that if someone writes this:

 

"Edwin gets a hammerlock. MrGalatea breaks out with an elbow. Edwin tries to lock a rear waistlock, but MrGalatea breaks out with a mule kick. Edwin bends over and MrGalatea turns and hits a DDT."

 

versus this:

 

"Edwin cinches a hammerlock...but before he can go anywhere, Galatea throws an elbow back into his temple, breaking the hold. Edwin staggers through and tries a rear waistlock this time, but Galatea stays alert and pops him with another elbow, this time stunning Edwin significantly. As Edwin tries to regain his balance, MrGalatea spins, scores a front facelock, and sleekly falls backward to drill Edwin with a DDT."

 

I'll pick the second passage. Description and sensory details are important, but so is wrestling. The better the balance, the better your match reads, and the better the action flows.

 

I don't really know how I mark. Good writing gets you far. Good wrestling gets you farther. Wit is good, but jokes aren't necessary. Embodying the characters, having a logical evolution of moves, maneuvers, and action, and keeping the match entertaining and readable are plusses. An internal story helps--it should be clear to both the writer as he writes and the markers as he reads what the characters are trying to accomplish, and why. It can be as simple as "Frost is trying to wear down Tod with big heavy power moves so he can win the coveted US title," or "Tod is trying to bait Frost into attacking so that he can damage him with quick counters." If I'm reading a match and it's not holding my attention, that's a bad sign for the match. It's a process--I sometimes use a points system, sometimes don't.

 

There is no end-all be-all rule of match-marking, but from what I've seen, it's rare that one marker would choose one match over another. You can try and guess what a marker would like, but it's hard to really determine what makes someone tick. I'm pretty sure that Stubby, King, Thugg, LDP, or anyone who does a fair amount of marking would tell you the same things I've told you in the paragraph above. How much weight we give to everything is deeply subjective, but through experience, hopefully those of us who handle match-marking have some sort of grasp on what makes one match a winner and one match a loser at any particular moment.

[Guest Insane Clown Dan]

Now maybe Edwin likes a comedy match, and will prefer a Z match instead of Flexxx. If its funny, and if everyone else is funny, but yet it is still acceptable wrestling, even though if its not the best writing ability, they might favour that match.

 

Note to Xero : The only match I showed up for against Z, I won. And I think King marked it. Not that it matters anymore, and Z still owns me either way. But I think it won based on wrestling content.

[Guest kelloggs]

Well Danny I'm sorry to see you go but I hope you'll at least stick around the Community, WF and JL boards. Good luck and hopefully you'll come back because as they say "they allways come back."

[Guest HVilleThugg]

I'll put up my thoughts about marking, and I have no problems giving away the secrets to how I mark.

 

Edwin said it best in that if a match doesn't hold my attention, it's bad news, and sometimes, that match may have the most amazing spot known to man. It's quite possible that a match with better spots may lose to a match that tells a better story. Edwin is right in that it is a very subjective process, and there's no real way (with the match-writing system) to make the process objective. I attempt to remove as much of the subjectiveness as I can, so I use a point system. I rate the match itself for entertainment value in three parts...

 

Beginning - How well does the match start? How entertaining are the first few minutes? Are they true to the characters? Are they true to the crowd reaction? If this were real, would I be excited?

 

Middle Match - How entertaining is this middle match? Are there near falls? How many? Was there a nice middle match spot? How true are they being to the crowd reaction? Are the characters shouing wear? Have they been true to the physical assessment of both characters at this point in the match? Who's winning? Why and how are they winning? Would I be excited if this were real? (This is a tough section because, by nature, this is the most boring part of every match...it's much easier to get a top score here because you only have to hold my attention...you really don't have to entertain me. You have to keep me there until the ending, because it's tough to make middle match REALLY entertaining without giving up your big moves and finishers.)

 

Ending - How entertaining was the ending? Did they follow the rules of the match and the accepted rules of wrestling? Was there interference? How much? Did the interference work well with the match as a whole, and did it work with the story? Was it too much, did they overdo it? Was I on the edge of my seat, scrolling slowly in anticipation? Was the ending confusing? Did I get lost, and if so, was it my fault or the fault of the writer?

 

THere are some of the questions I ask or look for when I mark a match. Then, after the match, I rate 4 more categories

 

Description - How well did the writer describe what was happening in the ring and surrounding areas? Did they confuse me? Was the match readable? How much detail was used describing important parts of the match?

 

Commentary - How well did the writer use the commentators to tell the story? Were the commentators entertaining? Realistic? Did they get in the way of a great story?

 

Wrestling - How much wrestling was in this match? Was it a spot-fest? Were there some good, "actual" wrestling in there? How well did the writer use his/her and his/her opponent's moveset? How well did the wrestling flow together? How was the in-ring pyschology prortayed? Was everthing consistent (i.e. if the right leg was worked, is that the leg that gave out in the end, or did they switch?)

 

Spots - What kind of spots were in the match? Entertaining? Forced? How many? Too many? Did they fit well into the story? Did they flow well in the match? Were they true to the characters?

 

Once I've rated all that, I add the first 3 scores together, and then pick the top 3 scores from the 4 later categories. Add those 3 to the earlier 3, and I get a score...a match score. I always make my decision on a match based on this score...never how I feel about a match. I do that because it's always easy to pick the match you JUST read as teh winner if it was good. So, I always go back to the scores...

 

I pick 3 of 4 because I know that commentary may not be a strong point for some, or whatever...so no one outright loses because they aren't particularly talented in one area or another. They can make it up in something they're stronger in. However, if you're not good at descriptions, it's probably going to take away from your B/M/E scores...but you won't get hit with it in the lower section if it's the lowest score.

 

About the commentarty thing...you can win without great commentary. Ask JD and he'll tell you...I had some awful commentary. I couldn't write dialogue for crap...it really really sucked. I don't do humor, and I don't do wit. My commentators called the match...and very poorly I might add. The key is to tell a good story with your match, and use your commentators for the important stuff...the big time ending...or the stuff that needs explaning. I'm not going to lie...all things being equal with 2 matches, a better commented match will win...but that rarely happens. If you can tell a good story and keep the reader entertained, you can win the match, regardless of commentary. Hell, when I'm in the middle match sometimes, I skip commentary here and there so I can get through the match and focus on the important stuff. The point is...you CAN win without great commentarty....tell the story...and entertain me.

 

Da "secrets revealed" H

[Guest Muzz]

I still can't believe Edwin picked Xstasy's match over Axis', but that was a long time ago. It was a true kliq moment though.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

::powerbombs Muzz through the Australian glass ceiling::

 

I always remember that match because I think Crusen threatened to kill me about a bazillion times. If memory serves me right, X won that one on points, by 2 points, I think. I think it was 25-23 out of 30, but it was a year ago, so I don't totally remember.

 

Da "all the Kliq should start signing their messages like this, ooooh yeah snap into a slim jim" E