Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 You know what? Rock will win. I don't think that the WWF expects the NWO to stay hot/over/around long enough to have any meaning come from matches "down the road". Does the NWO succeed if Hogan loses? Long term wise...I don't think it matters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tony149 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Short term wise it matters. If Vince is trying to make money off the nWo...now is the time to do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ihatesmarksandmarks Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Rock HAS to win at mania....there is no way they are going to job rocky for the third time in a row at mania, espicallythe beatdown the nwo gave him, only way rock gets his heat back is if he wins. It makes NO sense for hogan to go over. I do have a strange feeling that hall is going over at wm....dont know why. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Actually it would be the 4th time he jobbed in the ME in a row. Which makes it that much worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ihatesmarksandmarks Report post Posted February 27, 2002 yup...forgot about the job to HHH....i think even the most casual wwf fans will even see rocky as a choker who cant win the big one if he jobs to a almost 50 year old man at WM. I like hogan and all, but it seems almost unrealistic for him to lose to hogan...but of course all that shit gets thrown out the window with wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest justcoz Report post Posted February 27, 2002 They did the same thing with Ric Flair after they signed him. He had a memorable debut that they could have went much further with and was then pretty much reduced to a Commisioner Foley role. In the most recent Torch, Wade suggested several entertaining scenarios they could have used to add some entertainment to the McMahon and Flair being "partners" plot such as Ric flushing the toilet and walking out McMahon's personal restroom, putting a daycare center in Titan towers, putting up a cubicle in McMahon's office, etc. Little things that could have made for entertaining television. This is a sports entertainment company, right? Am I asking too much to expect to be entertained by the NWO given the position they are being given in the WWF? For them to impact the ratings like the WWF had hoped, they need to be all over the shows, disrupting the WWF product and being the poison that McMahon promised them to be. The 'must see' aspect of their arrival shouldn't just be them targeting Rock and Austin but also the WWF locker room. You would think being hired henchman of Vince's that Ric Flair would be target number one. Have they burst into Ric's offices? How about their first meetings in the locker room with Van Dam, Undertaker, Triple H, Jericho, Stephanie, etc. Things like that could be entertaining and would build off of the way they were hyped before their debut as being locker room cancers, etc. This should be can't miss tv. We should be sitting here like what are these guys going to do next? Who is going to join with them? These are the things that made the NWO work the first time. Why aren't they walking through the crowd, taking over the announce table, trying to lure WWF superstars to join them before it's too late? Hogan talking to a cardboard cutout of The Rock is nowhere near as intriguing as Hogan confronting Ric Flair or the Undertaker. Even seeing Hogan and Vince sitting together talking about their past and why they are now on the same page. And we all know that Nash and Hall could be entertaining and funny as hell in backstage skits, etc. Why keep them in the background with no personality? The WWF is giving this to us half assed and they apparently didn't learn from the mistakes of the Alliance angle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 You're right. The best part of the ENTIRE No Way Out ppv was the Rock NWO confrontation. There are 400000 wrestlers in the back right now...and I personally think that Nash and Tajiri can have a great segment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ihatesmarksandmarks Report post Posted February 27, 2002 The biggest mistake they made....was putting the nwo just against rock and austin. I wonder if its because how they handled the invasion angle, where every match from midcard to main event....was wcw vs wwf. Maybe the wwf doesnt want to make the whole thing "nwo vs wwf" but id love to see the reaction when they confront taker,jericho etc. BUT it has only been a week and a half... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BlackRainbow1025 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 I'm a little confused on something. Vince brought the nWo in right? Where is he? I mean, if he's leading them against Flair, why haven't they even interacted with Flair once? McMahon really fucked up this one too. Everyone was expecting Hall to be drunk or Nash to play politics. Turns out, Vinnie Mac himself is screwing up the nWo angle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted February 27, 2002 I wholeheartedly agree, Ihate. The original NWO angle had them fucking with EVERYBODY, not just the main event faces. I know the angle's only a week and a half old, but we don't have a hell of a lot of time til WM, so I think they need to step it up a bit. Screwing around with Mr. Perfect on RAW was a decent start and hopefully they'll build on that and have the NWO disrupt everything about the show, maybe even go as far as to beat down heels as well as faces. I can admit that I don't like any of these guys and didn't want them back, but that's neither here nor there since they are here for the long run. Now the most important thing is if they can pull this off without fucking up WCW-style. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ihatesmarksandmarks Report post Posted February 27, 2002 i was thinking the same thing black rainbow...vince brought the nwo to fuck around with flair.....and flair feuds with the undertaker....yeeeeeah GREAT booking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 I think the reason that The NWO isn't interacting with anyone else...is because the WWF has no idea what they (or anyone) are going to be doing after Mania. Without knowing what role everyone (and the split) will play...it's easier for them to just build towards WretleMania. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tony149 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 They should of had the nWo destroy everybody. They had a hot start with the stuff with The Rock on Raw, but the angle has lost some steam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just call me Dan Report post Posted February 27, 2002 There are SOOO many opportunities to get people over using the nWo! My God, even WCW gave people credibility using the rub of these guys.Look at Rey Mysterio, he even looked like a threat! nWo should definetly mess with the entire card. Sure you can't have them beat the hell out of Rock or Austin all the time, they are the biggest stars of your company! The solution is not to f*** with them non stop. All three getting outsmarted by 1 Austin makes them look stupid. Have them feud with Flair. For GOD's SAKE have them feud with DDP and Booker T! Think about it, Page just busts down the nWo's door and goes psycho on them to make up for all those years... have the nWo hand him his ass but he keeps on coming Booker T and Page have so much to gain from this! Bringing them back on up the card would freshen things up. The nWo are bullies... Vince likes to play up to the smarks comments... Why don't they pick at Rikishi for falling flat and sucking? Or Undertaker for the same thing? Kane never amounting to anything? RVD's DEPUSH? Jericho being a "transitional champ" ? Everyione has issues, nWo should play on them. It would bring added emotion into everyone's characters. It would revive this quickly dying crap they are giving us now. I have never heard a more apathetic crowd at the climax of a RAW in my life, something is not right. It's not too late. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mystery Eskimo Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Booker and DDP *could* get over big time using the nWo, yes, but it will never happen because Vince will never acknowledge the past of WCW. Even during the Invasion, WCW was just another group of wrestlers. If some of the history had been there for the casual fan, it might have helped, who knows. The nWo have become just three old guys who don't like Austin and Rock, rather than genuine threats to *everyone* like we were promised. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tony149 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 We were promised? If you're talking about the poison of the nWo, then yes. They should go after everybody in the WWF. Not just the mian eventers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mystery Eskimo Report post Posted February 28, 2002 Yep, thats exactly what I'm talking about. There are loads of wrestlers doing nothing on the roster, why not have the nWo 'hospitalise' some of them? As a poison supposed to destroy the WWF, they're not doing a very good job so far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Risk Report post Posted February 28, 2002 Jericho sympathizing with Hogan was patheticly stupid. Jericho should have zinged Hogan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest goodhelmet Report post Posted February 28, 2002 Once again, you have to see what vince's motives are with these guys. Is it to build a solid angle or settle pst scores? The WWF booked themselves into a corner by having Rock-Hogan. Do they put over Hogan and kill Rock's cred or put over Rock and kill the nwo angle? This could be a catastrophe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mystery Eskimo Report post Posted February 28, 2002 Yes, a catasrophe in terms of the match and the storyline. At least with the Invasion we got some good Austin/Angle matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest goodhelmet Report post Posted February 28, 2002 the invasion produced alot of good matches. RVD-Hardy, RVD-Jericho, Edge-Lance Storm, booker-Rock (a little disappointing). When the booking sucked, the wrestling kept me watching. I might not be so lucky this time around. Better shape up that midcard and quick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted February 28, 2002 Jericho is basically the Honky tonk man so i don't see how he can get over as a serious WM main eventer if he never works main events outside ppv, HHH is competing with Rock and Austin which is just silly, he's dull and lifeless in this role. In sum, wrestling is gay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tony149 Report post Posted February 28, 2002 It's kinda hard to figure out what Vince is doing. Does he want to get even with Hogan, Hall & Nash? Does he really want to make money off of them? Or is he trying to do both while not knowing it could backfire? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest justcoz Report post Posted February 28, 2002 I understand the buildup is for Wrestlemania but when the hell are they going to start creatively leading up to the split? They are supposed to be a poison to the entire WWF and this is a short term angle if it's to be successful. The NWO concept will be dead in a year more than likely so the time is now to revive it and generate interest with it. The NWO interacts with everyone in the locker room and come off like arrogant assholes. If they aren't beating someone down, they are verbally taunting guys. They take ringside seats and disrupt the televison shows. They take over the broadcast and make a mockery out of the product. Exactly like the Kid Rock video indicated they would do to the promotion Vince McMahon Sr. built. Get Nash and Hall in the ring with The Hardys for a television feud. These are guys that worked best with someone like Shawn Michaels. I think they'd work well against Jeff and Matt for a short term feud. The Hardys get a rub with a Raw upset only to be pummeled by Nash and Hall outside the building. How about Hogan approaching the Big Show and telling him how it was him who told Show to leave WCW for the WWF because he'd be a big star but instead he's become the biggest disappointment as a draw in the history of the business. Hogan can promise him stardom, movie roles, etc. if he joins the NWO. Nash and Hall approaching Triple H, buddying up to him, making snide remarks about Stephanie, talking about old times. There are tons of ideas. Someone mentioned Nash with Tajiri. Hillarious. Have them pick on Hurricane. Have them trash talk The Dudleys, Tazz, RVD, Raven and Tommy Dreamer about being big ECW stars and how it much suck to play to something larger than a bingo hall only to have the NWO come in, make more money than them and bury them on the roster. This could lead to a Paul Heyman return with Heyman damning Vince to hell for killing pro wrestling. Of course, the NWO beat Heyman down freeing Heyman to return to Flair's WWF as commentator. I could list everyone on the roster. This is what the NWO should be doing. They are the thing that will forever split the roster and kill the WWF as we know it, right? Ric Flair cannot tolerate this and the "wrestlers" demand that he takes action so he breaks away from Vince with a core group of wrestlers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest goodhelmet Report post Posted February 28, 2002 justcoz, your scenario is sound and it WOULD have been the right path to take.the nwo could have been a perfect angle to involve the midcarders, affecting the main players, doing what they were supposed to do, but without screwing up the Mania main events. Once again, why hasn't Flair even mentioned the NWO since they've been back? That's bad writing and continuity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tony149 Report post Posted February 28, 2002 Flair has only mentioned the nWo once. That was at No Way Out. I guess the WWF wants fans to think Flair is too busy with Taker to worry about the nWo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest justcoz Report post Posted February 28, 2002 It WOULD have been the right direction but apparently these creative genuises feel it's more entertaining to throw silly angles like Austin firing a gun which shoots a net and traps Scott Hall. God knows this will bring in ratings. This will beef up buyrates. This is how to get the best use out of three guys with few years left in their in-ring careers with a gimmick which peaked in 1997. Hall and Nash are useless as long as they stand there with no personality. The NWO gimmick is useless. Hogan is useless talking to a cardboard cutout of the Rock 1 week after his return to the WWF which in itself should be earth shattering and full of storyline possibilities and mic work. If there is any hope for the WWF to do this right, the Austin/NWO segment will be cut from Smackdown and replaced by some intriguing out of the ring/backstage segments. Flair fears the NWO so much that he didn't show up for Raw until 10:45 when several weeks ago he was willing to almost give up his shares in the company to ensure that these men not be brought into the WWF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mastermind Report post Posted February 28, 2002 Geez, at first I thought the NWO angle was going okay, but you guys are 100% right. Justcoz please copy and paste your posts and send them to the wwf. Some of it might actually be the wwf guys not allowing it either. Hogan/Hall/Nash might be dumbing things down to get in good with the roster. Rumours are flying some wwf guys were upset with how much time the NWO got on monday. That's why I say sometimes these wrestlers are big cry babies. Anyways, back to the topic. I think Vince being off television is a good move storyline wise IF the NWO starts to really destroy the wwf so bad that Vince can't be there physically to see it. I like the fact that Vince is only seen through video. Something like a "mastermind" that's not really seen and heard. Vince shouldn't really care about showing up in the wwf arenas until the NWO go too far. It's said the angle last week was actually suppose to be on the RAW after Mania which would make sense. Anyways, you guys are right. You know what the wwf should do RIGHT ON MONDAY!!! Without spoiling SmackDown for anyone the wwf should just cut the chase and have Hall and Nash win the world tag titles. That would be a start. The tag title match at Mania is a waste anyways. Put the titles on these guys to give them heat and build the division in the meantime. It's not doing anything on the current champions. The poison would have started as the tag title match would be screwed at Mania and I don't think anyone would be crying over it. I still don't understand why the wwf doesn't acknowledge the video history of these guys either. The most dumb thing about this angle is WHAT THE HELL ABOUT RIC FLAIR? Why haven't they gone straight to Ric Flair and wipe him out to control the wwf by having Vince make the matches? Hell, it would actually make sense if Taker is just distracting Flair from the NWO and is actually NWO himself. He has laready taken out Arn Anderson who is second in command it looks like when Flair isn't around. They need to let the fans know that since they got disrespected in the back they ARE HERE TO DESTROY the wwf. The former wcw guys stepping in their face makes total sense and would be a great tool for at least one tv show. Jericho should be attacking them on the mic saying they aren't going to steal his thunder and he would still be a heel. I actually think the NWO should more than not be serious heels. I don't know the general populace actually might you know not think 40 plus year old men are actually "cool". 1996 they were younger and in more tune. Hell, we should see the NWO actually show up in the hosptial where Rock is and put a beatdown on him. SOMETHING to make it look like Vince actually has a plan to take out all the wwf stars who fans pay money to see. You know play up stuff like former members like Big Show possibly thinking of re-joining the group. I understand they don't want to over do it like the invasion thing with the whole show being the invasion or even when Nitro use to be guilty of it. However this IS the beginning of the angle. It could cool off after WrestleMania. I mean how come NO ONE has stepped up to the plate for The Rock? I mean no one came out during the attack last week. The wwf needs to spice this thing up. They need to make the wwf "brand" name is in trouble. Make the matches with the NWO at Mania have some meaning. That's why I say put something like a 2 out of 3 falls scenario where the NWO wins 2 and the wwf loses something. Scott Hall/Austin we see someone like HBK return and cost Austin the match when Nash is sent to the back. The wwf is down. Another match should have been Kane/Nash where Nash wins by interference by X-Pac. That's 2 nothing. If the NWO sweep the wwf has to change their name to NWO. However, Rock wins his match with Hogan and doesn't choke this year. You guys are right the wwf can be doing a lot better job with this angle. It has only been two weeks though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tony149 Report post Posted February 28, 2002 I was a huge beliver and still am, that the WWF should play up the "When you're nWo...you're nWo 4 life!" catch-phrase. Then list all the former nWo members that are in the WWF, and how they built this huge army-like group in WCW. That would be people wondering "Will he re-join?" A video package MUST be done on the nWo. Show all the beat downs they did in WCW. Show their past in the WWF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest goodhelmet Report post Posted February 28, 2002 Great idea Tony! Seriously, everyone here has some kind of decent idea that can make the angle seem important yet the WWF gives us this watered down crap with no continuity. I'm still waiting to see how they explain the NWO are a poison? "I think Vince being off television is a good move storyline wise IF the NWO starts to really destroy the wwf so bad that Vince can't be there physically to see it. I like the fact that Vince is only seen through video. Something like a "mastermind" that's not really seen and heard." If I didn't know any better I would have swore that you meant Vince RUSSO and the higher power angle. Scary! "Scott Hall/Austin we see someone like HBK return and cost Austin the match when Nash is sent to the back. The wwf is down. Another match should have been Kane/Nash where Nash wins by interference by X-Pac. That's 2 nothing. If the NWO sweep the wwf has to change their name to NWO. However, Rock wins his match with Hogan and doesn't choke this year. " once again, proving we can book a more logical, better product than the WWF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
