Guest 1000 Faces Report post Posted February 27, 2002 I have a TV/VCR in my bedroom, so when I'm folding laundry I usually like to pop in a wrestling tape, just to have something on in the background. So last night, I popped in WCW Sin, and was absolutely blown away by the first match, Chavo Guerrero Jr. vs. Shane Helms. I didn't remember it being that good. More than that, I was blown away by the fact that the crowd heat just built and built throughout the match until the crowd was popping for every move by the end (and keep in mind that both guys were heels at the time). So after that, I popped in my tape of the last Nitro, and those two guys had another great match there. Not as good, due to the McMahon-imposed time constraints, but still damn good. And it occurs to me that I enjoyed those two matches more than anything I've seen on the WWF's undercard in months. It blows my mind that a company with a talent roster that deep can have absolutely no idea that the way to get guys like that over isn't to dress them up like superheroes ... just LET THEM WRESTLE. It isn't a coincidence that Helms' best match since he entered the WWF was a Jakked match vs. AJ Styles -- just throw the half-assed plotlines and gimmicks out the window and let the talented guys WRESTLE. And they wonder why they can't get the undercard over. JUST LET THEM WRESTLE. Yeesh ... as much TV time as the WWF has, you'd think that maybe they'd be willing to sacrifice 10-15 minutes a week to, say, a Helms/Chavo match. It'd get them over better than any retarded superhero gimmick ever could, and as long as it's building toward something (say, that Cruiser title that's rotting around Tajiri's waist -- nothing against Tajiri, but aside from the match against Helms on Heat, when has he defended it?). If the cruiser division was given half as much thought as they give the fucking WOMEN'S division, it'd be over in a heartbeat, GUARANTEED. Just ranting ... thoughts? Later on ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted February 27, 2002 your preaching to the converted here dude. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ihatesmarksandmarks Report post Posted February 27, 2002 half as much thought as the womens divison? so u want the cruisers to wrestle twice a month??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted February 27, 2002 twice a month is more than they wreslte now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest goodhelmet Report post Posted February 27, 2002 the cruisers are wrestling ZERO times a month on Smackdown and RAW. 2 times a month would be a godsend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ihatesmarksandmarks Report post Posted February 27, 2002 how can a whole DIVISON get over wrestling 2 times a month?? it needs a lot more than that. I dont understand why they dont make excess a cruiser/lW show.....do we really need 2 more fucking hours of recapping and the coach? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Not just the Cruisers, but the rest of the mid-card as well. The only mid-card feud that has been given any time over the past few months has been Edge/Regal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tony149 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 The WWF doesn't even bother booking the midcard anymore. They just stick two guys out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest goodhelmet Report post Posted February 27, 2002 "how can a whole DIVISON get over wrestling 2 times a month?? it needs a lot more than that. I dont understand why they dont make excess a cruiser/lW show.....do we really need 2 more fucking hours of recapping and the coach? " right fucking on!!!! The cruisers could get over if given 5 minutes each week on tv. WCW did it. Rey, Juvi, Kidman were all solid credible (not justin) stars. ell, in WCW's dying days, i'd read reviews of nitro and the ppv's(i had stopped watching) and tuned back in to check out the resurgent cruisers light the place up. The WWF probably has the best cruiser division ever waiting in the wings. I don't watch heat right now. don't care if i miss it. If Heat was a cruiser show, i'd tune in and so would many others. If they tape heat at the Smackdown show, it would be a suitably way to get the crowd jacked for the show. They could give the cruisers one match on each ppv to help the quality content and would satisfy a good portion of their audience. it really seems like a no-brainer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tony149 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 If the WWF ever really pushed the Crusierweight division...they would need to book it right. They can't put two guys who styles will clash, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Here's a good old fashion cospiracy theory (this one is about Vince) When Vince signed Taka Michinoku, he may have actually wanted a cruiserweight division (probably because WCW had one). But who was the top challenger? Brian Christopher. So it didn't get over right away, and Vince figured that the cruiser style wouldn't ever get over...and buried it. Now I know what you're thinking: How does RVD fit into all of this? Here's how. RVD works a high risk/impact style much like the cruisers (except without the technical skills or psychology). RVD also got over immediatly. Meaning that Vince didn't have a chance to tell him his style wouldn't get over...because...well...it did. If Vince can learn anything from RVD's popularity...it is not to rush to judgments too quickly. I remember reading an interview with JR in early 2001 that said they didn't have anything more than a passing interest in RVD, because they felt his addition would be like "trying to fit a square peg in a round hole". They felt he wouldn't get over (see the failure of the cruiserweights due to lack of push) Shame on them. Would it kill them to push something other than Test? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Test is getting pushed? Since when? The Alliance failure? This starting to get into the Anglympic Slam area of psychotic hatred. Enough already with Test. The guy isn't being pushed toward anything right now, so please just stop bitching already. I'm not trying to flame, but this is just getting ridiculous. RVD's got the IC title shot at WM and Test isn't even on the card, be happy for once. God, this is getting so fucking annoying.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted February 27, 2002 And the thing is, Taka wasn't even supposed to have gotten as much of a push as he did. He just came in with Great Sasuke as a job guy. But Sasuke split, leaving Taka as the only alternative. Simply put, the WWF is not going to push a cruiserweight division, so stop asking. There's a reason why Essa Rios, Kaz Hayashi, and Jerry Lynn all left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ihatesmarksandmarks Report post Posted February 27, 2002 BPS your boy RVD is getting pushed A LOT more than test right now. The last time i saw test he jobbed to edge on jakked at the raw tapings....thats not a major push. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest goodhelmet Report post Posted February 27, 2002 yeah, test hasn't really been pushed since the immunity angle but he is still on tv which is bad enough. "Simply put, the WWF is not going to push a cruiserweight division, so stop asking." I refuse to just accept whatever company line the wwf is spewing about the cruisers. eventually, they will realize that a portion of the audience wants their cruiser fix. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 How many pushes has Test had? How many resulted in his getting heat? How many pushes has RVD had? That were followed through? RVD is currently a former hardcore champ. That's it. Chuck is a tag champ. Test has held the IC, Euro, Hardcore and Tag titles. Is RVD getting pushed? If he wins the IC belt at Mania...then I guess he is. Until then...Test still gets more airtime then RVD's 2 minute matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Besides all that...THIS WASN'T A PUSH RVD POST. THIS WAS A PUSH THE CRUISERS POST. I used RVD as an example of things that Vince thinks won't get over (like the cruisers) that do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Exactly HOW many pushes has Test had that were followed through? Thought so. See, the same can be said for Test as for Van Dam. And since when do titles mean anything anyway outside of the World/Undisputed Title? And the last time I checked, 30 seconds wasn't longer than 2 minutes. RVD and Test have had the same circumstances surround them, just that RVD wasn't completely buried 3 times while Test was. Is RVD over? Yes. Is Test over? No. I can understand the charisma factor and everything, but RVD hasn't been squashed by every single main eventer and given lame gimmicks like the "lady killer" or "the untouchable badass who hasn't done a damn thing." Look, the WWF hasn't fucked RVD over like they did Test, be happy about that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Again. MY POST WAS ABOUT PUSHING THE CRUISERS. RVD's style is comprable to that which McMahon decided not to push...because it wouldn't get over. BUT it will get over. 99% of the RVD discussion on this board is people yelling at me. Sometimes without me even mentioning him. Get a life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Dude, I wasn't yelling at you about RVD. I was talking about all the ENDLESS Test bashing you do. Hell, I agree about the cruiser style getting over. I just brought up RVD because you almost ALWAYS compare him to Test as far as pushes and crowd reaction go. It gets very irritating hearing the same bullshit over and over again. Hey, you're a smart guy and all, but please, stop using Test as your crutch whenever you debate about RVD. Everyone knows RVD's over and is hardly pushed while Test isn't over and has been pushed before. That's ALL I'm saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 No I compare him to HHH as an example of Mega push vs. nonpush (at least up until now) Anglesault is the Test guy. I used Test in this example because he always seems to find a way into a feud/storyline/title reign based on nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Well, that's the bookers' fault, not Test. The poor bastard just does what he's told. And, I'm pretty much in agreement with you on the HHH thing. I don't like the guy, but I would like it a lot of he'd find that one thing to connect with the fans on or else this WM match is going to be DOA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 I'm a fan of heel HHH...but think it is too much for him to be pushed strong too the ME of Mania as both a face and a heel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Yeah, his heel work was way better then this wishy-washy face bullshit. There's just so much he needs to change from that stupid ass jacket to his entire moveset, and sadly, I don't see him getting any better by the time WM comes around. Of course, what I just said will probably be considered "typical bitter smark bullshit", but I don't care. It's just the way I feel right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheDames7 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Just a comment.....to hopefully get this topic back on track. Someone said that instead of pushing the women's division, they should push the cruisers in that time slot. A lot of you agreed, but some said that 2 matches per month would do nothing for the division. I disagree. When was the last time that a womens match on TV generated any kind of heat, good or bad? If those 2 cruiser matches a month could get over, and maybe get a guy or a move over at the least.....someone would probably take notice and give it some more attention. So, I'll take those 2 matches on Raw/Smackdown a month, and like it dammit. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ihatesmarksandmarks Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Well the reason why womens matches are only on twice a month is because they really have only 3 or 4 capable women wrestlers to work with....therefore they dont have many matches to work with. If there are going build a cruiser divison they are obivously gonna need more time to get these guys over than 2 matches a month. Otherwise they will just scrap the divison like they have the last seven times theyve attmpted to build one. Which is why making excess a crusier/LW show makes so much fucking sense... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheDames7 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Sticking an all cruiserweight show on Saturday nights at 10 on TNN is basically telling them to fail. Heat would be better....a LOT better. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 Do they have more cruisers than women? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ihatesmarksandmarks Report post Posted February 27, 2002 I really dont think so....first all of youve got an extra hour on excess. They need all the time u can get. And heat does serve SOMEWHAT of a purpose of getting other mid carders like storm,saturn,DDP etc some ring time that they will not get on raw. However if the split happens and smackdown supposedly becomes more wrestling orineted...id see there as the best place to start the divison. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheDames7 Report post Posted February 27, 2002 I'd rather give them the hour that more people watch. Excess' ratings are horrible, and below the 1's. In that same respect, seeing as how the guys wrestling on Heat really aren't getting over, might as well put as many of them as you can in the cruiser division and see what happens. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
