Guest TheyCallMeMark Report post Posted September 28, 2002 For my introduction to AJ heavies, if figured it would be best if I started off with something that wasn't in the "prime" so to speak so I could watch that once I was used to the style, and appreciate it, so I picked up this Misawa comp from 97/98 because I was told AJ was pretty good then as well, and I figured it'd have to be a pretty good tape. The matchlist is as follows: 1. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi (4/97) 2. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (4/97) 3. Jun Akiyama vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (7/97) 4. Kenta Kobashi vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (10/97) 5. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jinsei Shinzaki (10/98) 6. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Kenta Kobashi (10/98) 7. Toshiaki Kawada vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (01/99) 8. Toshiaki Kawada vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (6/94) I've only watched the first match so far and man I thought that match was sweet. I thought it was going to be an uncomfortable "man I wish I liked this" thing like it was when I first picked up NJ Juniors, but it wasn't. I loved the match. Probably mah favourite match up to this point in my wrestling-watching career. Some of the stuff was pretty crazy. Basically I'd like to see how you guys think these matches stack up. Just try not to give away any of the endings; because I have no idea who wins any of these bouts and I like not having a clue; I was real excited watching the first match because I thought it was going to end on about every pinfall. Backround info on the matches, and little insights I might miss are also wel comed so maybe I can appreciate them more. Thanks, and I hope maybe I'll stir up some conversation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted September 28, 2002 "1. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi (4/97)" Terrific 30 minute draw - probably their third best match together. "2. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada (4/97)" This took place immediately following the 30 minute draw, and was not good at all. "3. Jun Akiyama vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (7/97)" This is probably 9/6/97, since Misawa faced Taue in 7/97. Anyway, heatless match, but solid work. "4. Kenta Kobashi vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (10/97)" Incredible match. Their second best, and pretty damn close to *****. "5. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jinsei Shinzaki (10/98)" Boring, pointless match. "6. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Kenta Kobashi (10/98)" Headdrop fest - not one of their better matches. "7. Toshiaki Kawada vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (01/99)" This one is very good. On the slower side compared to their earlier bouts, but well worth watching. "8. Toshiaki Kawada vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (6/94)" Classic for the ages. It helps to see their matches prior first to fully appreciate it though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted September 28, 2002 If you haven't seen the last match on the tape, I wouldn't bother watching it yet. You've got an idea what it's like with the '97 stuff, which isn't so bad. Finish up the part of the tape that runs through '99, and then start picking up all the singles, tags, and 6-mans in the Misawa vs. Kawada feud that happened before 6/94 to get a good feel for that match. And THEN go back and watch that 4/97 Misawa/Kawada and think about how much (or how little) that match means and meant, for what it was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest godthedog Report post Posted September 29, 2002 ---"4. Kenta Kobashi vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (10/97)" Incredible match. Their second best, and pretty damn close to *****.--- which match was this? was this the one where kobashi kicks out of everything except emerald frosion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted September 29, 2002 No, that was the 6/11/99. This was 10/21/97. I don't think the 6/99 is even ****. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XdojimeX Report post Posted September 29, 2002 "4. Kenta Kobashi vs. AJPW Triple Crown Champion Mitsuharu Misawa (10/97)" Incredible match. Their second best, and pretty damn close to *****." I have mixed feelings on this match since it kind of hints at the AJ style passing it's artistic peak, sort of an omen of the slow death to come. You could really sense the All Japan faithful starting to get burned out after this match. They had the crowd for the home stretch of course but the loss of traction was woefully evident. Still a must see though. Check out Kawada/Kobashi 6/98 for one last wakeup call while you're at it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted September 29, 2002 The lack of heat early was evident, which I talked about a few months ago when I saw it last. But I think the thing that got me was just how top shelf Misawa's performance was. It definitely ranks among his best singles performances ever, in that he totally outdid his opponent - at least that's how I saw it. This is definitely his last classic singles match though. As far as the Kawada-Kobashi 6/98, I could say the exact same thing I said above for Kawada. He was simply incredible here. These two matches are fairly similar in quality as far I'm concerned, with me leaning towards the former. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest godthedog Report post Posted September 29, 2002 No, that was the 6/11/99. This was 10/21/97. I don't think the 6/99 is even ****. you gotta give me endings here. all i have is a kobashi/misawa comp tape with 6 hours of matches and no dates, so it's extremely hard to tell them apart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted September 29, 2002 It's the match with the "Sega Saturn" logo in the middle of the ring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonflyKid Report post Posted September 29, 2002 I'm currently watching a Kobashi/Misawa comp, it's great seeing what Misawa uses to beat Kobashi with in their early matches and what it takes to beat him with in later matches. 4/5/91- Misawa after a 2nd Tiger Driver. ***+ 4/12/93- (JIP, about 9"30 shown and I want to get the full version) Misawa via Tiger Suplex. 3/26/95- Misawa via Tiger Suplex '85, Kobashi kicked out of TD and TS. ****+ 10/25/95- Misawa via TD '91 ****1/2 I liked this more than most. 3/31/96- ? I fast forwarded this match because of the bad video quality, all the other matches on the tape have had great video quality. EDIT* I went back with some patience and watched the 3/31 match, Misawa won with a top rope lariot neckbreaker which seems out of place in the Misawa/Kobashi series. I know it's a big move since I saw Misawa pin Baba with it which I hear is a rare thing for a native to have done but it still felt anticlimactic. ****+ 1/20/97- Misawa via running elbow smash. Kobashi kicked out of the TD '91. ****** My favorite match of all time. 4/19/97- 30:00 Time limit draw. ****1/2+ 10/21/97- Misawa via TD '91. ****3/4 10/31/98- Misawa after several elbows KOed Kobashi. Kobashi kicked out of the TD '91. ***** I have seen the tv version before, this was the full version. 6/11/99- I will be watching this match for the 2nd time, here I believe it is is full whereas I only saw the tv version previously. EDIT* Misawa won with the Emerald Frosion. ****1/2+ 4/11/00- EDIT* Kobashi won after hitting Misawa with a burning lariot to the neck followed by a normal burning lariot. **** 3/6/90- Tiger Mask 2 vs. Kobashi- I'm very much looking forward to seeing this one. EDIT* Misawa won after a Tiger Driver. Fun to see them younger, lighter, healthier and quicker. ***1/2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted September 29, 2002 "4/5/91- Misawa after a 2nd Tiger Driver. ***+" Haven't seen "4/12/93- (JIP, about 9"30 shown and I want to get the full version) Misawa via Tiger Suplex." **** "3/26/95- Misawa via Tiger Suplex '85, Kobashi kicked out of TD and TS. ****+" ****1/4 "10/25/95- Misawa via TD '91 ****1/2 I liked this more than most." ***1/4 (their worst match bar none) "3/31/96- ? I fast forwarded this match because of the bad video quality, all the other matches on the tape have had great video quality." ****1/2 "1/20/97- Misawa via running elbow smash. Kobashi kicked out of the TD '91. ****** My favorite match of all time." ***** "4/19/97- 30:00 Time limit draw. ****1/2+" ****1/2 "10/21/97- Misawa via TD '91. ****3/4" ****3/4 "10/31/98- Misawa after several elbows KOed Kobashi. Kobashi kicked out of the TD '91. ***** I have seen the tv version before, this was the full version." ***1/2 "6/11/99- I will be watching this match for the 2nd time, here I believe it is is full whereas I only saw the tv version previously." ***3/4 4/11/00- ***1/2 3/6/90- Tiger Mask 2 vs. Kobashi- I'm very much looking forward to seeing this one. Haven't seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonflyKid Report post Posted September 29, 2002 "10/31/98- Misawa after several elbows KOed Kobashi. Kobashi kicked out of the TD '91. ***** I have seen the tv version before, this was the full version." ***1/2 That low? I could see how people would be turned off by the evolution of the AJ style but a rating that low suprises me. BTW, the 6/11/99 match ended after a Misawa Emerald Frosion. Is it just me or is that move not killer. I saw the 6/11 EF and a clip of one to Takayama and they both seemed like side slam variations with almost flat-backed bumps. I can see how it would be considered a piledriver variation if pulled off a certain way with the guy being driven on his head/neck/shoulders but the two times I have seen it didn't look devastating. It still looks cool just not devastating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted September 30, 2002 That low? I could see how people would be turned off by the evolution of the AJ style but a rating that low suprises me. Devolution, not evolution. It's a "one year after the fact" type of rating. When I first saw it, I had zero All Japan footage from 1990-1993 to compare it with, so I rated it ****+. But once I saw what AJ used to be like, I saw this headdropping stuff as utter nonsense. But it's not just the headdropping. The match goes by at a snail's pace, with them throwing out the kitchen sink towards the end, which just didn't do anything for me. The 6/99 match followed pretty much the same formula - a formula that was far removed from what made AJ great in the early 90's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest goodhelmet Report post Posted September 30, 2002 that shinzaki match should not be on any misawa comp... EVER! whoever made that tape probably has a limited amount of misawa's work because there are just too many other good misawa matches out there to throw out sub-standard crap like that . um, i didn't see misawa-jumbo or misawa-taue on there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted September 30, 2002 The two Misawa-Jumbo matches from 1990 smoke everything on that tape, except for 1/97, and the Misawa-Taue from 4/95 (both), 9/95, and 5/96 are better than all the crap after 1997 in my book. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Cooke Report post Posted September 30, 2002 We (interpret that as you wish) should make up a list of stuff people should see that will be pinned at the top instead of the thread pinned at the top now. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonflyKid Report post Posted October 1, 2002 I think the "Read and don't forget" thread is too valuable and needs to stay pinned, it'll save alot of time and answer questions later on. It's basically like a puro FAQ of sorts. I do agree that a pinned thread of recommendations would be great as it too would save alot of time and avoid the creation of otherwise unneccessary and repetitive threads. BTW Tim, I sent the money order out today for the two tapes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
