Does ECW get unfair criticism......

[Guest NoCalMike]

What I mean is....a lot of what made ECW great was the angles and the stories were just totally emotionally superior to WWE(much in thanks to ECW's MUCHO insane crowd). Now when someone who never saw ECW on TV goes and rents/buys a DVD, and they watch a *** match, I am sure they will NEVER be able to get into like myself or someone else who remembers the EXACT angles and storylines going on at the time. Case in point, the Sandman/Raven barbedwire match....I know it isn't the best of matches, yet if you add in the storyline and angles AT THE TIME, it lifts the match up a bit.....there are other examples, but I am sure ya'll get the point.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

For the most part, ECW was a glorified indy that had some compelling stuff in '95 and just sucked the meat missile afterwards. I really didn't find the Sabu/Taz, Dreamer/Raven stuff to be that compelling, to tell you the truth. Heyman was the type of guy who knew how to get people to care about a feud, but didn't know how to sustain that interest in the slightest.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I don't get the whole Raven/Dreamer feud either. I don't think either guy is remarkable in the ring or on the mic.

[Guest BAR]

I didn't really like Raven/Dreamer but you can't deny Raven's mic work.

[Guest Incandenza]

Having not seen much of the famed Raven/Dreamer feud, I can't comment on it, but the biggest problem I have with ECW--and I'm speaking as someone who came to the fed after the party had ended--is that the wrestling wasn't that great. Be it ridiculously contrived spot after ridiculously contrived spot that never hit, or some pathetically weak ass brawling (gory bladejobs aren't enough to disguise New Jack's sorry weapons shots), there was little in the way of actual talent in ECW, and most of the real talent wound up finding homes in the Big Two. To make matters worse, they took a bunch of no-talents and would often stick them in 15-20 minute matches, screaming "THIS IS WORKRATE!" all the while, in spite of it involving guys who can barely work a five minute match (i.e. Sabu). Sure, Heyman's storylines may've been more original or creative (and even that is an arguable point), but this is WRESTLING we're talking about, and ECW often lacked the in-ring product to back it up.

[Guest Rob Van Dam]

Man you know nothing, ecw was great. Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Storm, RVD, Malenko, Sabu, Dreamer, Raven, Funk, Douglas, Candido, Misterio Jr., Juvi, Pychosis, Sandman, Eliminators, Gangstas, Dudley Boyz, Taz, and so on and so on.

and the Dreamer and Raven feud was one of the greatest feuds in any fed.

[Guest bob_barron]

Wow- you were able to name a bunch of wrestlers.

 

Viva la ECW!!!

[Guest Trivia247]

But since You DIDN'T see what those BUNCH of Names did In ECW obviously you'd say something like that.

 

ignorance evidently is bliss.

[Guest Incandenza]

Man you know nothing, ecw was great. Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Storm, RVD, Malenko, Sabu, Dreamer, Raven, Funk, Douglas, Candido, Misterio Jr., Juvi, Pychosis, Sandman, Eliminators, Gangstas, Dudley Boyz, Taz, and so on and so on.

and the Dreamer and Raven feud was one of the greatest feuds in any fed.

You list some good wrestlers there (and some awful ones, too), but I don't know how anyone, when defending ECW, can mention the Gangstas with a straight face.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I still hold firm that ECW was the best all around wrestling product from 1995-2001...in my opinion

[Guest goodhelmet]

Man you know nothing, ecw was great. Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Storm, RVD, Malenko, Sabu, Dreamer, Raven, Funk, Douglas, Candido, Misterio Jr., Juvi, Pychosis, Sandman, Eliminators, Gangstas, Dudley Boyz, Taz, and so on and so on.

and the Dreamer and Raven feud was one of the greatest feuds in any fed.

You list some good wrestlers there (and some awful ones, too), but I don't know how anyone, when defending ECW, can mention the Gangstas with a straight face.

or sandman. don't forget sandman. that guy was absolutely horrible!

[Guest Incandenza]

or sandman. don't forget sandman. that guy was absolutely horrible!

Well, yeah. So were/are Sabu and Kronus, but I didn't mention them because at least Sabu was good at one time and Kronus had Saturn to carry him.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Once again, most people posting negative about ECW, only know 2000-20001 ECW......not late '94 to early '99.

[Guest Incandenza]

Once again, most people posting negative about ECW, only know 2000-20001 ECW......not late '94 to early '99.

20001?

 

Anyway, most of the ECW I've seen comes from the DVDs they've been putting out, and that covers a great deal of the mid-to-late 90s.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Man you know nothing, ecw was great. Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Storm, RVD, Malenko, Sabu, Dreamer, Raven, Funk, Douglas, Candido, Misterio Jr., Juvi, Pychosis, Sandman, Eliminators, Gangstas, Dudley Boyz, Taz, and so on and so on.

and the Dreamer and Raven feud was one of the greatest feuds in any fed.

Typical mutant response.

 

ECW was the trend setter in 1995 when they had guys like Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, etc..., but it died off shortly. Certainly by the time it had found its way on PPV in 1997, it was horrible. It was better than XPW, but that's about it. Even WCW 1999 & 2000 kicked its ass in quality.

 

BTW, half those guys you listed suck, and the good ones (with the exception of Storm) weren't there for very long.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

To answer the question. No, ECW does not get unfair criticism, but it does get unwarranted praise most of the time.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Fuck it...I'm editing this cause I'm going to have a better answer later

[Guest Angle-plex]

You either like ECW or you don't. I liked it because it was Pro Wrestling, not sports entertainment.

 

RoH is pro wrestling, and they always produce good matches. Hopefully RoH will be the next, better version of ECW in a few years.

[Guest Mad Dog]

Man you know nothing, ecw was great. Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Storm, RVD, Malenko, Sabu, Dreamer, Raven, Funk, Douglas, Candido, Misterio Jr., Juvi, Pychosis, Sandman, Eliminators, Gangstas, Dudley Boyz, Taz, and so on and so on.

and the Dreamer and Raven feud was one of the greatest feuds in any fed.

Let's see Guerrero, Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, Mysterio, Psicosis and Juvi spent about a year in ECW. They are considered by most to be WCW wrestlers. Jericho, Benoit, Mysterio, Juvi and Guerrero were all very 2 dimensional until WCW rounded them out. Jericho was made a star by WCW.

 

Eliminators had a few good years in the fed yes. But they were horrible the months leading up to the breakup and Kronus was never very good.

 

Gangstas. You should be shot for even mentioning this shit in the same paragragh as Benoit, Malenko or Guerrero.

 

Candido is highly overrated. All his WCW matches sucked.

 

Sandman. An average brawler who was over b/c of his entrance.

 

Taz. Some time in the WWF exposed his weaknesses.

 

Dreamer. Good for awhile but a cripple for the last few years.

 

Raven. WCW used him way better.

 

Douglas. Lazy sack of shit.

 

Terry Funk. Didn't spend huge amounts of time there. Past his prime.

 

Sabu - destroyed by injuries by the time he got there.

 

RVD - about the only good thing to come out of ECW after 95-96.

 

Dudleyz - again were trash until the WWF rounded them out.

 

Storm - a good bumper but again it took Big 2 influence to make him good.

 

 

Let's see off the top of my head these feuds are better than Dreamer/Raven:

 

Warrior/Savage

Hogan/Savage

Hogan/Sting

Hogan/Flair

Flair/Sting

Flair/Steamboat

Flair/Savage

Bret Hart/HBK

Bret Hart/Austin

Jericho/Malenko

Austin/Rock

Booker T/Chris Benoit

Rock/Chris Benoit

 

 

That good enough for you or do you want another 20 that blow that feud out of the water?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I have a hard time saying bad things about the company because they did do alot to influence a very successful period of both North American WRESTLING and SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT

 

What I mean is...Attitude was the sports entertainment version of ECW on a grand scale...with a McMahon flare to it.

 

But ECW did introduce several great wrestlers to the North American market that people who don't order foreign videos wouldn't know of.

 

Eddy, Dean, Benoit (his WCW jobber time not withstanding), Jericho, Rey and the luchadores...all of them got their first significant North American exposure from the only one of the "Big 3" that would let them go at first.

 

Then they all went to WCW and WWF took the attitude part.

 

Add to that the more homegrown guys that ECW got over (all these despite any previous work...many of which had tons...ECW made their characters memorable enough to give them better careers) like Tazz, Raven, Dreamer, Dudleys, RVD and so on.

 

Plus they brought the Awesome/Tanaka show during a time when in ring wrestling was getting aweful in the big two.

 

Tajiri, Mikey, Storm, Corino, Rhyno, Jerry Lynn and on...

 

If the WWE could get as many wrestlers over with all there resources...the product would be alot more interesting.

 

If WCW could have done it...maybe they wouldn't have gone belly up.

 

Hell...people cared about a broken down Sabu the Sandman and the Gangstas for chrissakes.

 

We should be so lucky to have main eventers and world champions as over as those freakin guys.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

I grew up watching wrestling, then at it's low point in the mid-90's all the syndicated shows were dropped by the local stations and since I didn't have cable I had to go wrestling-free for a few years. Until 1996 when I happened upon ECW on America One, I remember thinking how great it was and how it had a wonderful atmosphere. Week after week there were matches that would blow me away, intense fueds and that feeling that anything can happen. I loved when guys made suprise debuts or returns and I even loved the swerves.

 

The aura started fading when they started doing PPV, I was enthusiastic at first because something not mainstream that I love was getting bigger but it ended up spoiling what had made it so special.

 

I started watching the WWF again when Shotgun Saturday night premiered and eventually got cable. The magic I felt ECW had around '96 was the same kind of magic the WWF/WCW had when they were fueding but that faded and died eventually too.

 

I hope some magic happens in the future, right now wrestling needs some.

 

ECW deserves some criticism, but they deserves alot of praise too.

[Guest Mad Dog]

And I've watched a lot of ECW and was a fan.

 

But I can't stand all the ECW ass kissing. Face the fact that it was bush league compared to WWF or WCW.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"Face the fact that it was bush league compared to WWF or WCW"

 

I will not now...nor ever admit that ECW was bush league compared to WCW...which was easily the worst promotion in North America for the better part of the 7 years after Hogan arrived.

[Guest Mad Dog]

That's fine. Like I said I was an ECW fan

 

I just have a problem with these bandwagon ECW marks who claim it was the greatest federation ever and say it was the No.2 company towards the end.

 

Even at it's worst WCW had an iron grip on the No.2 spot.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I just have a problem with these bandwagon ECW marks who claim it was the greatest federation ever and say it was the No.2 company towards the end.

Well...I'm not a bandwagon mark, I am a true diehard ECW fan, and through it's ENTIRE existance I think show for show it was far better then WCW

[Guest RickyChosyu]

You can name all the names you want - there was never a match in ECW that got above ****, including Malenko/Guererro, including RVD/Lynn, and including every match Sabu ever worked. Then again, I must be outside my mind to argue with someone bringing up the Ganstaz as an arguement for good wrestling. Don't you have some CZW tapes to watch?

 

As for "revolutionizing" wrestling in the mid ninties, nothing they were doing was revolutionary in the slightest. Raven/Dreamer was about childhood friends who met a girl at summer camp that they fought over, and hated each other ever since. Yeah, an edgy storyline that was. Then you have the brawls they did, which were just knock-offs of stuff Kevin Sullivan had been doing in the eighties. Sabu/Taz, the "greatest feud in ECW history" was started because Sabu no-showed one night. There was nothing new about ECW, just a lot of crap mascarading as "cutting edge" in a time when neither of the big two knew how to connect with the audience. The second either of them got their act together, it was back down to earth, and ECW was horrible from then on.

[Guest DARRYLXWF]

The ***** ECW that Scott Keith talks about is WAY overrated. It's about *** at most.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Ok first off, people keep responding saying, "all I have seen is off the dvd" Well that was MY POINT EXACTLY. I am saying, it is not the same to take an emotional piece of history(of wrestling) and try to pretend the same emotions exist now, so in essence when you watch a match from '96 from a federation you knew nothing about in 1996 and try to act like you can watch it with the same intensity as someone who saw the federation weekly back then is just ludicrous.....

 

I don't think ECW was the greatest thing ever, yet it's product was the best thing in North America in '95 and early '96. I don't even need to hear another criticism of ECW from the same people who dare to think any TLC match was a masterpiece, and believe me, plenty of people have those contradicting opinions.....And as far as ECW brawling being a ripoff of Kevin Sullivan....WTF is that all about, what because they brawled through the crowd? Yah I guess that summed up all of the brawling. Didn't Kevin Sullivan involve himself in the early days of ECW anyways, so maybe it was just his influence rather than "ripping off"

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I will give ECW this: They had the best promo EVER. That is of course the snappage of Pillman.

[Guest Incandenza]

Ok first off, people keep responding saying, "all I have seen is off the dvd" Well that was MY POINT EXACTLY. I am saying, it is not the same to take an emotional piece of history(of wrestling) and try to pretend the same emotions exist now, so in essence when you watch a match from '96 from a federation you knew nothing about in 1996 and try to act like you can watch it with the same intensity as someone who saw the federation weekly back then is just ludicrous.....

I don't doubt that watching ECW at the time brought a lot more of an emotional response to its fans, but you act is if anyone who wasn't around back then are in no place to criticize it now. I have no emotional attachment to ECW, but that doesn't mean I can't look at these matches now and see a whole lot of crap with the occasional bit of goodness thrown in.

 

Hypothetically, let's say I watched ECW when the Dreamer/Raven feud was going on. Suppose I didn't share the opinion of most ECW fans in thinking it was the greatest thing ever. Would that be the only time I would be allowed to criticize it?