The Crossface

[Guest TSMAdmin]

In this edition of the Crossface, the Smart Marks re-evaluate their feelings on Summerslam, vent about RAW, rejoice at X-Pac's dismissal, lament for Stone Cold, and celebrate Bret Hart's recovery. Join us in this very emotional edition of the Crossface. Before we get started, let's meet the players...

 

Brandon Truitt: Brandon is a regular here on the Crossface and happens to own a shitload of shoot interviews. You can check out his review of the Al Snow shoot here!

 

Damian “The Dames” Gonzalez: Dames keeps busy with the NWA:TNA recaps, the weekend news and whatever else he feels like chipping in with. Check out his latest piece of art as he recaps Summerslam 2002.

 

Dr. Tom: Tom is the hardest working man at The Smart Marks! Besides being a regular in the Crossface chat, he brings the content every week with his Smackdown recaps, the Midweek News and the occasional movie review. Don't miss his latest work as he drops in with the Midweek News!

 

Edward Robins: Edward is a huge movie buff and brings you DVD reviews of obscure B-films in his Exercise In Poor Taste columns. He also pounds out the content every week bringing you, the reader, the weekly Velocity recap. Check out his latest views on this past week's Velocity.

 

Retro Rob: Retro Rob comes to you every week with his Confidential report. He also enjoys reviewing his vast collection of wrestling tapes. Check out his latest tape review for WWF's RAW Hits!

 

William Helmick: If you're interested in writing for the Smart Marks, drop William a line. For now, he'll be moderating the discussion.

 

 

William: From all accounts, Summerslam was the best WWE PPV of the year. After a couple of days to think about it, how would you rank this one with other memorable Summerslams?

 

Dames: I would have to rank it very close to the top. It might be one of the top 2 or 3 Summerslams, but certainly not the best. There weren't any matches to me, that were 4 star caliber, unlike 2000 and 2001.

Rob: It's easily one of the top five Summerslams, although last year's may have been slightly better.

Brandon: It's probably the most solid one all-around, but HBK-HHH isn't enough to put it over Summerslam 98 (Rock-HHH ladder match) or 2001(Angle-Austin).

Edward: The only other Summerslam I’ve seen is 2001, and the only thing I remember from that is how mad I was about the Booker T/Rock match result.

Dr. Tom: It was a good card top to bottom, but I think it's going to come up lacking something compared to 98, 2000, or 2001. There's nothing that stands out as an instant classic to elevate the whole show.

 

 

William: So the biggest fault of the show was the lack of a true standout match to help give it legendary status?

 

Dr. Tom: Yes, Will. Benoit-RVD could have been a classic, but Rob's spotty selling and the finish out of nowhere really doomed it. I wanted to give it ****1/2, but it just wasn't there.

Brandon: Pretty much, Will. Most of the matches were well above average, but there was no match that will make someone say "DAMN, that was a classic match" in a few years.

Rob: I would say so Will. Most everything was pretty much in the ***-***1/2 range, no ****+ matches to put it over the top.

Dames: I don't care what ANYONE says about HBK/HHH, it's not a 4 star match.

Dr. Tom: I'd agree, Dames, but I think it's every bit of ***.

Edward: I personally didn't like HBK-HHH. I mean some of the spots were cool but it was too long and didn't have any real flow. Plus I wasn't going to buy the "cripple" pulling that stuff off for a second.

Rob: I mark for HBK, but the match was not ****, it was still a ton of fun to watch though because of all memories it brought back of days when HBK could drag a good match out of anyone.

Dames: Ok, in my review, I gave it **3/4. The match ran way too long, didn't have much flow and HBK kipping up in the middle of it no sold all of the back work done in the first 15 minutes. In essence, was it a mark out moment? Yes. Did it make the match better? No.

Brandon: The simple version of it is that it's a 30-minute match and that only about 10 minutes of the match is really great. There was a lot of dead time when HHH was doing horrible offense.

Rob: Dames is right. It wasn't great because HBK decided to stop selling his back after a few minutes, thus killing most of the story going into the match.

Dr. Tom: I gave it ***1/2. It was certainly a good match, but not a classic. I liked the back psychology, right up until the kip-up. It no-sells the whole match, and it annoys me when Rock does it, too. Plus, HHH was boring. He killed the crowd several times when they were starting to get into the match.

 

 

William: The other main event of Summerslam saw Rock lose to Brock Lesnar, who became the youngest World Champ in WWE's history, Is Brock ready?

 

Dr. Tom: Well, ready or not, he's the man with the ball and he has to run with it. I don't think he's quite ready yet, but I think WWE will protect him well enough until he is.

Brandon: Brock probably isn't ready, but he's certainly closer to it than he was a few weeks back. Since he has some heat now, he should be good to go.

Rob: I don't think you can really tell yet, but after Undertaker punked him out on Raw, I would say that he lost much of the heat he gained at Summerslam.

Dames: Judging from the reaction that he got last night at MSG and at Nassau, I think the fans are going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Rob, all it takes is for Lesnar to go buck wild on someone huge like Undertaker and he'll get that heat right back.

Brandon: Only if Brock is allowed to go ‘buck wild’, He pretty much got punked out by Underseller AND HHH on RAW. And according to Stephanie, Brock isn't coming back to RAW anytime soon so how does that make him look any better?

Rob: Undertaker bitch-slapped him twice and then knocked him to the floor without Brock getting any offense in until 2 hours later.

Dames: Somehow, I think that Brock will face HHH or UT in the upcoming weeks. If anything, this will probably start a bidding war for Brock's services and he'll have challengers on both shows making him seem like an even bigger deal.

Rob: I could see them fighting at whatever the next PPV is. How they get there, I have no clue.

 

 

William: Well, he certainly is a new face at the top of the heap but isn’t his meteoric rise to the top contradicting everything the Fed has been feeding wrestlers for years? Aren’t you supposed to earn your spot or is

that just bullshit?

 

 

Dames: Oh, its definitely bullshit. I mean, look at Goldberg, the man Brock is compared to. He's a prime example of someone who didn't pay his dues. The problem lies when the person who didn't pay his dues ends up believing his own hype.

Dr. Tom: Earn your spot? Yeah, right. Chris Benoit, meet Maven. Maven became a WWE superstar in just nine weeks, while it took you a dozen years. Between Tough Enough and a young guy like Brock with the belt, it's

obvious that "paying your dues" and "earning your spot" aren't as important as being on an MTV show that exposes the business, or being a blond steroid freak with an amateur background.

Rob: I would think that guys like Booker, RVD, and Jericho will be PISSED now that everyone knows that Brock will be making 1.4 mil a year. I don't think Brock will last very long at the top, kind of like a flavor of the month.

Brandon: It is bullshit if management think that you've been born with a divine right to main event. Look at Rock and Angle... Both were given mega-pushes in their first year in the federation. Both turned out to be great wrestlers, although it looked doubtful in Rock's case for a long time.

Dames: Actually Rob, I disagree. I don't think WWE will let Brock go the ways of Luger. If anything, he may be more like Warrior

Brandon: At any rate, let's hope someone DESERVING knocks off Brock eventually... someone like Angle or RVD instead of Taker or HHH.

Rob: Before long, the old regime (HHH & UT) will get the belt back if Brock's title reign doesn't draw within a few months, and that’s a damn shame! The same thing happened to Angle back when he won the title. He was

given about a month to draw and couldn't, so he was shafted down to the mid-card.

Dr. Tom: Does WWE really still think that UT and HHH are draws with the belt, Rob? Their records earlier this year should speak against that well enough.

Rob: I think they still believe that HHH can generate heat, as for Undertaker, maybe he will have another "one last run" with the belt.

Brandon: He already HAD "one last run" with the belt, Rob... too bad they won't leave it at that.

Rob: We all know they won't, Brandon.

Dames: Maybe THAT's where the story of him getting paid more is coming from....

Edward: Yeah, but his "one last run" with the belt was the best run of the year so far. You have to remember that.

Brandon: That's debatable... Jericho's match with Rock put anything that Taker did to shame. It's just that Jericho was booked horribly.

Rob: Edward, I agree, but only because it was nice to see someone hold the belt for more than a month... The quality of the title matches quality didn't really go up once he won it, though.

Dames: All HHH jokes aside, I think as a heel, he's a much bigger draw and a heel title reign for HHH may draw some loot.

William: Why? Isn't that act played?

Brandon: HHH needs to lose about 30-40 pounds of upper-chest weight in order to hack it as a champ. He's WAY too slow to do much of anything now, unless he's got a pinball like Jericho or HBK to work with.

Rob: I agree with Dames. HHH admits that he is much better as a heel because he loves the role

Dames: Brandon, as a heel he CAN be slow and not show his faults.

Dr. Tom: More than that, Dames. As a heel, he can dictate the pace of the match. He doesn't have to try and keep up with people he can't hang with, since the heel should be in control of the pacing.

 

 

William: Ok, guys... Is this recent upswing in ratings going to evaporate due to the start of Monday Night Football in a few weeks?

 

Dr. Tom: WWE needs to hope people don't start watching MNF out of the sheer joy that Dennis Miller is out of the booth. MNF might have a little upswing because of Madden in the booth, but I don't think WWE will necessarily see their ratings drop as a correlation.

Brandon: This upswing in ratings is going to evaporate, but not because of Monday Night Football. It's going to because Taker and HHH are allowed to run rampant and the young guys are being made to look stupid.

Dames: I don't think the ratings will just evaporate. This weeks followed a great PPV, so it probably did better ratings than most. I'd give it another week before the ratings tell the story.

William: Well, the season starts in two weeks, Dames.

Dames: Ah... that shows my knowledge of football.

William: Speaking of Brock, after that horrible buildup to RAW's main event, he is Smackdown property now. Did anyone else think this was NOT the way you kick off a new title reign?

 

Brandon: That was the worst way possible to kick off his title reign. It's like when Jericho won the belt at Vengeance all over again. The one big difference is that, unlike Jericho, Brock actually measures up to HHH and Undertaker and is STILL being treated like a midget.

Dames: Well, I honestly don't think that Brock will be confined to one show. Bischoff will pay Brock more money to come back to Raw, and so on and so forth.

Dr. Tom: I don't think you kick off a new title reign by making your

youngest-ever champion, whom you've been hyping for months, play lackey to a GM just because she dangled some money at him. The champ should always be above shit like that.

Dames: Tom, I don't see it that way.

Edward: They can play it off like he's a young guy, so he doesn't know any better. He wasn't in any other feds really so he's new to the business, in the storyline sense and in a literal sense.

Dr. Tom: I just see it as Stephanie putting herself over another champion.

Dames: I think that the way its coming across is that Brock is too valuable for Steph to allow Bischoff to have him at all. It puts more emphasis on Brock, IMO. It's like two kids fighting over a basketball....it makes the basketball more important than it should be.

Dr. Tom: We'll see if it plays out that way on TV, Dames. We all know how the McMahons love to put other people over...

Edward: I think it puts some emphasis on Brock's worth as champion, but Dr. Tom's right. In the end, it puts the GM over more than the wrestler.

Brandon: It comes across as bullshit, Dames... the biggest violation of rules in the split so far. The only guarantee throughout the whole thing was that the champ is available to both shows and now they've violated it. Considering that Taker and HHH beat the crap out of him before he jumped, it's like the night where Taker "chased him off to SD" all over again.

Dames: Brandon, its not a violation if the rules stated that he HAD to be on both shows.

 

 

 

William: Well, another event saw the unification of the IC and Hardcore belts. Does anyone miss the hardcore belt?

 

Edward: I miss the Hardcore belt. They were beginning to make it a serious belt with dreamer over the past couple weeks.

Dr. Tom: Would now be the time to pitch my Raw and Smackdown TV titles idea again?

William: Yes, Dr. Tom.

Brandon: It means that there's no reason to have Dreamer and Stevie put on a good garbage match. That's a shame because they were bringing the Hardcore title back to what it SHOULD be, not Bradshaw running around threatening Johnny the Bull with a bottle of baby oil.

Dr. Tom: Good riddance to the Hardcore belt. It was always an homage to a promotion that's now dead, and it's been a joke for at least a year. It was a mercy-killing. They can still have Hardcore matches.

Dames: Tom, I finally think your idea will come to fruition for the Raw side of it. If Bischoff can't get Brock, he'll just make a title. He's killed off a few, so I'm sure he won't mind making one.

Dr. Tom: I hope so, Dames. I think it could really add something to the shows.

Rob: Tom, I really like your Raw and SD! titles idea

Dames: The HC title could have found its niche if they had let Dreamer and his fellow ECW-ites do something with it. They had already killed the 24/7 rule, so they could have done SOMETHING.

Edward: I could see bischoff with a "wcw style" tv title, but not Steph. It wouldn't really make sense if she did it unless she was just trying to steal Bischoff's idea to make a "bigger, better SMACKDOWN TV TITLE."

Rob: Judging from the way it went down, the WWE hasn't had any idea was to what to do with the Hardcore title for the last two weeks. I'm glad it's gone, because it had been played out.

 

 

William: Ok, speaking of champs, the Un-Americans attempted a flag burning angle. Has WWE finally just crossed the line???

Edward: I think it was pretty obvious it was never going to happen

Dames: No, not at all. I sincerely doubt that anyone truly believe that the UnAmericans would commit an act that is not only vile, but illegal in the US.

Rob: I don't think so, it was a good way to add some more heat to Kane's return.

Brandon: Attempted flag burning is just stupid... considering a heel promo at Ground Zero is crossing the line. (Several booking members DID consider this, according to LAW)

Dames: Now THAT would have seriously offended me... and NOTHING offends me. *except for rap songs about cunnilingus, which is way too popular these days*

Edward: They were gonna do that? Is that legal?

Brandon: I'm not sure if it's legal or not, but they talked about doing it.

Dr. Tom: They would have crossed the line had they gone through with it. I don't think teasing a flag burning in NYC was such a wise idea, though.

Dames: The NYC crowd knows that its a work and they treated it as such. No harm, no foul.

William: Then again, this was the same crowd that shouted What? during the national anthem.

Dames: They didn't even do the anthem this time...

Dr. Tom: Not to be political, but I think flag-burning should be protected speech. I just don't want to see it on my TV, especially from a wrestling show that would only be doing it (or teasing it) for the ratings

and reactions.

Edward: From what I saw on TV, it didn't seem like the crowd cared about the flag burning attempt. That was a great place to put the Kane tease.

Rob: The NY crowds are always unpredictable, their behavior cannot be explained.

Dames: They cared more about the Kane tease.

 

 

William: Speaking of Kane, will his next push finally establish him with the upper echelon or will it be just another failure?

 

 

Edward: I definitely think this is it. He's finally going to be over. Him talking in a normal voice may take some getting used to

Dames: I definitely think that he'll be pushed as a possible contender for Brock. But I don't think he'll stay at the top....just near it.

Brandon: Kane's push will establish him because he's big, he's over, and the office wants to get behind him. That new outfit is a strange choice though... looks like he should be chained up in a back room somewhere. Gump, meet gimp. Gimp, Gump.

Edward: Yeah... S&M Kane. Gimp & Gump... aka Fake Diesel & Diesel, together at last?

Rob: I don't think Kane's character should be doing spinaroonies, but I guess they are taking him a new, goofier, direction.

Edward: I think you have to take him in a goofier direction now. I mean think about how he used to be... he's got no more scars from the fires of youth or anything.

Dames: They're taking him to a more fan-friendly, over direction.

Dr. Tom: Kane will end up solidly in the upper midcard. He'd be a good IC champ (or a Raw TV champ, hint hint), but I think that's the level he'll settle at and not really go beyond.

William: I can understand wanting the guy to be able to breathe but doesn't the new mask just kill a lot of the Kane mystique?

Edward: It doesn't seem that different to me. He has the facial hair so it's still not really exposing a lot of his face

Brandon: They're trying to play off of the fans' short memories and/or stupidity. Every time he gets injured, he comes back wearing slightly less. After about 2 more injuries, he'll be plain Glen Jacobs for the first time in about 7 years.

Dr. Tom: His new look is kind of weird in terms of the costume. The mask is OK. They've done a good job of humanizing him a lot since he debuted, but I never thought all the mystery was a bad thing.

Dames: I don't think so... The mystique was killed when he started cutting promos. Eventually, he'll be unmasked.....and he won't be over.

William: And that seems like the career killer for sure, no?

Dames: Definitely.

Edward: I don't think he'll be unmasked. There's no reason to.

Dr. Tom: He should never unmask. That would kill the character.

Rob: Oh yeah... He needs a mask forever. He looks too plain without one.

Dames: Hey, I don't think they should.....but eventually, I think WWE will. Its Isaac Yankem for God's sake, can you cheer for him looking like that!?

Edward: The only way I could see an unmasked Kane working is if Kevin Nash came back and did a "worked shoot" about Kane being Fake Diesel. Then Kane would have to "prove himself" to Diesel and the fans after being humiliated.

Dames: I think that idea would bomb.

Rob: As do I.

Dr. Tom: How would that work? I think the fans would hate that idea, Edward.

Edward: I didn't say it was a great idea, but if you're going to bring back Nash, might as well try and make him work

Brandon: There was a joke a few months back that Nash was going to return as Fake Kane as an inside joke to people who remember Jacobs as Fake Diesel.

 

 

William: Well last week on Kevin Nash's website, he mentioned the possibility of Diesel returning. Do we really need New Generation characters returning?

Dames: Hey, I'd mark out for Diesel.....once.

Brandon: We don't need Kevin Nash back, period. Vince has already put enough money down that black hole for one lifetime.

William: Exactly, Brandon!

Dames: Yeah, he spent 700,000 on one Big Boot.

Rob: I always thought Diesel was cooler than Kevin Nash, especially towards the end of his WWF run.

Edward: are they going to bring back Nash though after his injury How long is his current contract for?

William: Isn't this guy really just a waste of space?

Dames: Tweener Diesel, from Survivor Series '95 until leaving the fed, was a great character, but it really wouldn't make me any happier if I saw him wrestle again.

Dr. Tom: We don't need Kevin Nash returning at all. It doesn't matter what his persona is. Vinnie Vegas would suck just as much as Diesel, Nash, whatever name he wants to use.

Rob: Either way, I would be happy if Nash never wrestled again

Brandon: His current contract is for 2 or 3 years and his first year will be over this February.

Edward: Nash DOES get these ungodly strong pops though.

Dr. Tom: His pops just prove the average fans are chumps.

Dames: Brandon, in one year he wrestled 3 matches, if that.

Brandon: He's wrestled 2 TV matches and a few at house shows. He was mostly around to keep Hall sober... and failed miserably at that.

Rob: Make him a manager or something. Just keep him out of the ring.

Dames: Wow, he never made it to a PPV... wrestling-wise, anyway.

 

 

William: well, speaking of guys i hope i never have to see wrestle again, Nash's good buddy X-Pac. The rat was finally fired. What turned one of the greatest wrestlers of the 90's into the joke he had become?

 

Brandon: Resting on his laurels as well as complaining too much about his neck injury killed X-Pac's career. He got his first serious neck injury in 1995 and has been employed for 7 years after that... that's about enough time on Wrestler's Welfare for him.

Dames: The neck injury and the complancency that he relied on.

Dr. Tom: Apathy, ego, and his apparent thinking that having his buddies around made him immune from things like jobbing to more deserving talent.

Rob: He hung out with the wrong crowd, which led to attitude problems and laziness

Dames: Wow, we've all pretty much listed different problems. I can't believe the guy stuck around for so long.

Dr. Tom: I can't believe it, either, Dames. He was good in the ring when he wanted to be, but I fail to see how WWE put up with all the other bullshit for so long.

Edward: He had those problems, but on those rare occasions when he's motivated, he could still work. Plus let's not forget all the "X-Pac sucks!" chants.

Dames: That was Bossman heat, the "I don't want you on my TV" heat.

Edward: bossman heat perhaps, but heat nonetheless

Dr. Tom: That's negative heat. X-Pac was a heat sink.

Rob: For a while I was an X-Pac supporter because he could go in the ring when he wanted to, which didn't end up being very often

Brandon: The problem is that he couldn't draw a pop to save his life since 1999, he's only cared in about 4 matches since then, and he's been avoiding jobs like no one's business.

Dames: And in those 4 matches, they weren't THAT great. If they were blow away matches, i'd give him a little slack.

Brandon: The only great match was one which also contained Jericho, Benoit, and Eddy. He was still the weakest link in there.

Dames: A little forgotten match from No Way Out '01. It's funny because when I remember that match, I don't think of X-pac at all. I just remember him being there. It could have been triple threat for all I cared

about.

Dr. Tom: That was a **** match. The problem was whatever match he was in became secondary to the fans telling him how much he sucked, which didn't help anyone he was in the ring with. Not that he was out there to put them over or anything, but still.

Rob: It's very sad though when you watch his matches from 1994 and his GWF stuff, he could've been a pretty big star

Brandon: And Magnum TA could have been a big star if he'd kept his eyes on the road in 1986. In the words of Denis Leary "Life sucks, get a helmet."

 

 

William: A couple of former WWE stars were in the news this week.Steve Austin and Bret Hart. First of all, Bret Hart made an emotional return to the ring at the Jacques Rougeau show. Thoughts?

 

 

Edward: Whether he wrestled or just made an appearance, that's awesome

Dr. Tom: It's good to see him marching down the road to recovery.

Brandon: Bret has a lot of integrity and a lot of testicular fortitude to go through with his appearance in his weakened state.

Dames: Bret is a man of his word, you can at least say that. He's my favorite of all time, in and out of the ring and its great to hear that he's doing better.

Rob: Bret has been a complaining bitch since 1997, but I wish him the very best and I'm glad he made it to the show.

Edward: are there any other quick details about the appearance? I never heard about it until now.

Brandon: He came to the ring, talked to the crowd, then hugged Jacques Rougeau as far as I know.

Rob: I think he cut a quick promo

Dr. Tom: I wrote about in my Weekend News.

Dames: Rob, the screwjob wasn't the only thing that happened to the Hart family, so I don't blame him for almost any of it.

Edward: Oh ok. Yeah, I missed the weekend news this week. And, yes, the Harts have been through a lot.

Rob: I'm not only talking about the screwjob, he has been complaining in his newspaper article about numerous topics for years now.

Brandon: Bret's always had a reputation as a whiner... it's just more noticable now.

Dames: Well, if the screwjob, a concussion, divorce, loss of custody of his kids, deaths in the family and forced retirement aren't enough to make you complain...what is?

Rob: You're right, he has been through a lot, but that doesn't mean that he hasn't been a whiny bitch for the last 4 years.

Dames: I'm not saying that he isn't....but I'm saying that its not like he has no reason to be.

William: Speaking as someone who has seen someone suffer a stroke, the fact that he even walked to the ring is a major accomplishment.

 

 

William: The other wrestler who recently left the WWE on bad terms is Stone Cold. Well, he filed for divorce from Debra. Am I the only one who sees he coorelations between Bret Hart and Stone Cold? Bitter ex-wrestlers

who see their personal life fall apart...

 

Brandon: I also see them... but that's because Austin's trying toavoid becoming the next Bret. That's why he walked out before he got screwed over.

Dr. Tom: I think it's too early to call Austin an ex-wrestler.

William: Fair enough, but life after the fed seems like a curse for ex-wrestlers.

Brandon: Mick Foley is the only successful wrestler in recent memory to still be on reasonably good circumstances with the WWE (Shawn Michaels has been in and out of Vince's doghouse for a long time, so he doesn't

count).

Edward: I don't think Austin would've gotten screwed over like Bret.

Dames: I agree... the fact that he'll most likely come back puts him in a different class altogether.

William: Why do you think that, Edward?

Rob: Austin has a history of bad relationships, so we can't really

blame wrestling for this divorce

Dr. Tom: I imagine it's hard to settle into a normal life after you've been a successful pro wrestler. The money, the fame, the spotlight, the adoration, the "perks"... you get used to it all, and then it's gone,

and you're just you.

Dames: That's why there are so many has-beens doing indy shows.

Edward: Well, Will, I still honestly think that Austin left because he couldn't handle not being on top. I honestly don't know why Bret got screwed. It seems like the WWE still wanted to work with Stone Cold but he felt it wasn't "at his level" and that's why he left. That's how I see it.

Brandon: Austin's somewhat in the right over being used as a midcard guy... he'd been carrying the fed for about a year at that point but got stuck babysitting alcoholics and was scheduled to be jobbed out to a green

rookie.

Dr. Tom: Bret got screwed, Edward, because he and Vince are both unrelenting Type A personalities, and they couldn't compromise near the end. Bret wouldn't do the job, and Vince wouldn't let him go gracefully.

Edward: Oh... then, in that case, from what i understand of Bret in '97, then there really are correlations between him and Austin.

Dr. Tom: They're reasonably similar as people, yes, but under a different set of circumstances.

William: Well, with Dr. Tom answering my question, we'll wrap up this week's edition of the Crossface!