Smoking Thread #368

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/nyregion...1ef52a&ei=5062&

 

Smoking Banned in Nassau Bars and Restaurants

By BRUCE LAMBERT

 

ARDEN CITY, N.Y., Oct. 7 — Nassau County tonight became the first county in New York to extend its ban on smoking in the workplace to cover all bars, restaurants, bowling alleys and bingo halls.

 

The County Legislature adopted the law by a 10-to-8 vote, thus winning a friendly competition with New York City and Westchester and Suffolk Counties, which are drafting similar rules that are soon scheduled for hearings.

 

In an unusual regional move to crack down on tobacco, legislators from all four jurisdictions have met to make their proposals as uniform as possible. If the others follow Nassau's lead, most of the state's population will be covered, increasing the pressure for statewide legislation.

 

"We're going to steamroll this downstate," said a Nassau legislator, Jeffrey Toback. After the vote, an advocate from the American Cancer Society, William Stoner, said, "Nassau County just made smoking history."

 

County Executive Thomas R. Suozzi said he would sign the measure, most of which would go into effect on March 1. The ban on smoking at bingo halls is delayed till Jan. 1, 2004. Businesses that allow violations are punishable by fines of up of $250 a day.

 

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has pushed hard for a similar ban in the city, and the City Council will hold a hearing on the issue on Thursday. The Suffolk County Legislature has a hearing on Tuesday, and Westchester legislators are reviewing their own proposals.

 

Reflecting the cooperative effort, the first witness at Nassau's hearing today was a visiting Suffolk legislator, Brian X. Foley. "If you pass this," he said, "you will be setting the momentum." He and Legislator Roger Corbin of Nassau were instrumental in extending the efforts in their counties to the city and Westchester.

 

Upstate is getting in on the act as well. The Legislature in Onondaga County, which includes Syracuse, is considering reversing an earlier vote against a ban, though a dispute on how strict the new measure would be resulted today in legislators' shelving the issue.

 

California and Delaware have statewide smoking bans for restaurants and bars. Local bans are being discussed in Boston and Chicago.

 

Nassau's new regulation closes most of the loopholes in the county's ban against smoking in the workplace. The current law, for instance, allows smoking in restaurants that have special ventilation or special seating areas for smokers.

 

Now, the only exceptions will be for businesses that derive 90 percent of their revenue from tobacco sales and for workplaces in private homes.

 

Protecting the health of workers is the goal of the law, its supporters said in a news conference before the vote and in a three-hour public hearing here.

 

"The job I have chosen may contribute to my death," said a statement from James DeVito of Bethpage, who said he has been a bar owner for 17 years. He is a nonsmoker, "but I do smoke whenever I go to work" by breathing the air in the bar. The smoke irritates his eyes and leaves him with a cough, he said.

 

The secondhand smoke that a bartender typically inhales in a shift is equal to the direct smoke from half a pack of cigarettes, other speakers said, citing studies. Andrea Smith said she got bloodshot eyes, a hoarse voice and a cough as a waitress in Albany. "It's not right that I had to breathe someone else's toxic air to earn a living," she said.

 

But opponents charged that the law would hurt bars and restaurants, and even put some of them out of business, by driving away customers who smoke.

 

"I will be financially destroyed," said Steve Gasperini, 51, who recently bought Lisa's Lounge in Baldwin. "Most of my employees are smokers. Basically 90 percent of my customers smoke while they drink." As a Vietnam War veteran, he said, "I get a little choked up that our freedoms are being ignored."

 

Hoping to block the ban in their county, the Suffolk Restaurant and Tavern Association plans a rally Tuesday in Hauppauge. The group predicts that a ban would cut revenues 30 percent, force layoffs and close many businesses.

 

The Nassau law passed along party lines, approved by the Democratic majority. The Republicans failed in their proposals to exempt bars and taverns and to allow separate smoking areas in bars and restaurants.

 

Bars and restaurants have not suffered where bans have been imposed, proponents said, because added patronage from nonsmokers more than offsets business lost from smokers.

 

"I worked many years to fight these laws, but then I switched to support them," said Paul McIntyre, a former official of the California Restaurant Association, a trade group.

 

Kathy Zadrozny said that business at her Aegean East restaurant in Hicksville jumped 15 percent to 20 percent when it went smoke-free. Recently she opened the no-smoking Mae Browne restaurant in Huntington — named for her grandmother, who died of emphysema.

 

The ban's supporters also cited a poll of 1,001 Long Island adults showing that 81 percent did not smoke, 63 percent opposed smoking in restaurants and 52 percent opposed smoking in bars, and many said that they would be more likely to go to smoke-free restaurants, bars and bowling alleys.

 

Not stopping with workplaces, the smoking ban movement is even venturing into the outdoors. The Nassau law covers outdoor restaurant tables. Huntington town officials recently banned smoking in playgrounds, Mr. Stoner said. And now Oyster Bay is proposing to ban smoking at its town parks and beaches.

 

 

Wait a second, where's that part agian? Oh, here it is:

 

"The job I have chosen may contribute to my death," said a statement from James DeVito of Bethpage, who said he has been a bar owner for 17 years. He is a nonsmoker, "but I do smoke whenever I go to work" by breathing the air in the bar. The smoke irritates his eyes and leaves him with a cough, he said.

 

Uh, what? He owns the bar. He could've banned smoking in it at any time.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

You know, if it's so @!#$ horrible, just ban the substance outright.

 

Oh, wait, can't do that -- it brings in too much $$$.

 

BTW: DeVito's brother's place of ownership has contributed to his near-death, too. He owns a McDonalds and eats a Big Mac everyday for lunch...

[Guest Some Guy]

Wait a second, where's that part agian? Oh, here it is:

 

"The job I have chosen may contribute to my death," said a statement from James DeVito of Bethpage, who said he has been a bar owner for 17 years. He is a nonsmoker, "but I do smoke whenever I go to work" by breathing the air in the bar. The smoke irritates his eyes and leaves him with a cough, he said.

 

Uh, what? He owns the bar. He could've banned smoking in it at any time.

He's a coward who needs to hide behind the state in order to stick up for himself. He knew thaat if he banned smoking in the bar he would have lost business and been the asshole. Now that the county has done it he can hide behind the law and the liberals become the assholes.

 

Lets look at part of his quote a little closer though:

 

The job I have chosen may contribute to my death," said a statement from James DeVito

 

He chose that job knowing that it may contribute to his death. Who's fault is that? Not the smokers.

 

So basically he's blmaing other people for two choices he made, buying a bar and allowing people to smoke in it. Both of those could be easily rectified without a new law.

[Guest Retro Rob]

I don't see what was wrong with old Smoking and Non-Smoking sections. I personally don't smoke, but I think this is a bit extreme.

[Guest Ozymandias]

I don't see what was wrong with old Smoking and Non-Smoking sections. I personally don't smoke, but I think this is a bit extreme.

The smoke wafts, and the waiters and people sitting near the Smoking section are heavily exposed to it.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I don't see what was wrong with old Smoking and Non-Smoking sections. I personally don't smoke, but I think this is a bit extreme.

Because often you have to walk through the smoking section to get to:

 

a) The Non-Smoking Section/Front Door

b) Bathroom

 

If they sealed it off, I wouldn't care. But I've been in many restaurants that place the non-smoking section right next to the smoking. In otherwords, you are basically in the smoking section with the only difference being that your table doesn't have an ashtray.

 

BTW, Ottawa does not allow smoking in restaurants and bars, and I think its fantastic.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

FWIW, I live in Cali (like you couldn't tell? Nobody can make left-wing rants like us Bay Area types) and the smoking ban has been around for a long time now.

 

While I find Israel's approach interesting (smoke whatever you want, but you can't smoke anything in public,) I think the most moderate choice would be outlawing smoking in restaurants and the like while leaving bars to choose what they want.

 

While it's not a problem around here because people can go outside (many bars have set up outdoor patios made for smoking, which creates a bit of a club out there) perhaps it's because we rarely ever have particularly bad weather here.

 

OTOH, I'm glad I can go to a restaurant without smelling the smoke, and a bowling alley around here has become much more popular and visited now that people no longer have to scrub themselves clean after they visit.

[Guest Some Guy]

Why outlaw smoking in restaurants at all? It should be the owner's choice. If you don;t like smoke don't go to smoking restaurants, if you don't care then go. No one is forcing anyone else to go to a place where they know that amoking will be going on, it's your choice and it's awlfully selfish to ban smoking because you don;t like it.

 

By "you" I mean the anti-smoking people in general, not any specific poster.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Well, I think we implemented it early. I think we implemented it as a City law far before the whole State did.

 

While with enough evidence you could change my mind on the State thing, I see no problem in a City being able to ban smoking from restaurants and other places. Our town is not very big and if there were truly a group of people organized who didn't like the law, they could be heard.

 

Anyway, there hasn't been a rash of bar closings in California since the smoking ban. People just go outside. I can't imagine making people smoke outside in January in New York, but they did it with office buildings. Anyway, The point of the ban is to help bar employees, given how harmful second-hand smoke is I wouldn't consider it a "victimless" behavior.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

Everything would just be easier if it were up to owners of these places whether smoking was permitted or not. They, and they alone should determine what is good for their business. If smoking brings in the cash, then keep it a smoking friendly place. Those that don't like that can take their business else where. If a non-smoking place brings in the cash, then keep it that way. Those that want to smoke can look for a place where it is permitted. Let the people and the owners decide what is good for them.

[Guest Mr. Slim Citrus]

I can certainly understand that sentiment, even if I don't necessarily agree with it; it's the main reason why I stopped going to bars.

[Guest DrTom]

As long as bars have separate sections for those who want to smoke, I have no problem with it. As a non-smoker, I know I'm going to encounter smoke when I go to bar, and I deal with it. Boo-hooing about it and saying it drifts to other parts of the bar is for sissies. Second-hand smoke is a farcically overrated danger, and the alcohol you're drinking is certainly doing more damage to you than breathing someone else's smoke.

 

I liked Eddie Izzard's bit on the smokin ban in California:

 

"You won't be smoking in a bar in California, that's for certain. Because you CAN'T. Yes, no smoking in bars, and soon no drinking and no talking! Watch it, California, you're supposed to be the crazy state..."

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

and soon no drinking and no talking!

Watch it, now.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

It should be the business owner's decision. It's been said a million times, but it's the right answer to an easy problem. If it can't be that simple, just build a wall, it's not that expensive, and it's guaranteed to keep most of the smoke away from the dainty pink-lunged nonsmokers.

 

No smoking in bowling alleys is just plain stupid though. It's ok to eat chili dogs and sit down with some beer, but smoking, that's just too unhealthy, huh? Bowling alleys are fucking temples devoted to heart disease, a person should be able to smoke in one without being ostracised.

[Guest Ozymandias]

The problem with leaving it up to the owners, is that nobody would be willing to start. The restaurant buisness is extremely hard to do well in, and if you ban smoking and it causes you to lose all your smoking customers - you're fucked. And they all fear that, so next to no one would be willing to make their restaurants non-smoking.

So you'd end up with the situation of no one banning smoking and non-smoking customers who don't want to eat while breathing that crap in would have almost nowhere to go.

 

 

It's ok to eat chili dogs and sit down with some beer, but smoking, that's just too unhealthy, huh?

 

Exactly. If you eat chili dogs and sit down with some beer you're not fucking someone else's health up, only your own. Smoking is different. Especially with all the kids in those places.

[Guest hardyz1]

:::goes into coughing fit:::

[Guest J*ingus]

If these places are so bad that nonsmokers CAN'T patronize them without inhaling prodigious amounts of smoke, why are they still in business? Why are the nonsmokers there? It's their CHOICE to go into the damn restaurant, bar, or bowling alley in the first place, just like it should be the owner's choice over whether people can smoke there or not. Keep the fed's paws out of this.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

Let the free market decide which is best. Smoking permitted? No Smoking? Or have smoking and non-smoking sections? Certain types of restaurants may make better business by allowing smoking or outlawing it all together. Chuck E. Cheese might win big by being a smoke friendly restuarant where as the Olive Garden might be losing business because of its decision to be smoke friendly.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

The problem with leaving it up to the owners, is that nobody would be willing to start.

Because it's a fucking stupid idea.