Wrestlers who are techincally good...

[Guest art_vandelay]

You know the deal, it's like the "Wrestlers who suck, but you still mark for thread" except the opposite. Which wrestlers can bring it to the ring every week but for whatever reason you just don't like watching them?

 

NOTE: Please refrain from flaming if you see something you don't agree with.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Well, since everyone but me is pretty much convinced that Akira Taue is worthwhile, I'll say him.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

I second that notion Agent......Taue sucks.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I second that notion Agent......Taue sucks.

oooooh boy i remember when i last DARED say that taue was a bit crap i sent the purist tools into a frenzy. heh.

 

'HE'S DAMN SURE A HOSS, BAH GAWD'

 

in addition to the 'relatively big red machine' another VERY minor quibble about Kojima - he's too small to have a lariat as a credible finisher. NOT SAYING HE SUCKS. Just ONE *little* thing.

 

i don't particularly like Magnum Toyko either, nothing really wrong with him, just not that great.

 

i admit i'm merely a casual fan when it comes to puro, but there we are.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Well I like Taue, personally, he shows great skill in choosing his moves, good storytelling ability and plenty of good ol' stiffness.

 

I can't wait till Jubuki, Wolverine and RikiChosyu find their way to this thread though, then I shall laugh and probably get deja vu.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

I found my way over to this!!!!!!

 

If Taue is bad (and from 1990 to 2/95, he STUNK) from 3/95-late 1997, then who exactly is good/great?

 

The only statement that anyone seems to come up with is that he worked with a world class bunch of wrestlers (Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi....well Kobashi was technically world class but stages behind the first 2). Then how did Taue drag an excellent match out of a drugged up, old man Steve Williams in 1996 at the Carnival finals?

 

He not only carried Williams, but in doing so took a major step forward in his character and was able to keep the proud tradition of Carnival finals from 1994 and 1995 alive. Oh wait, he was in the 1995 final as well....

 

It is great to not *like* someone. That is what this post is about. But saying their skill sucks without backing it up is lame.

 

Tim

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Getting back on topic, I really didn't like Benoit at all before his later WCW days. He was just SO bland! I can't see any character, emotion, selling or anything about his pre-WCW work that made him special, apart from his move execution. The only performance of his I really like before WCW is vs. Gedo at the Super J Cup 95, when he kicked the living shit out of my favourite piglet boy and really showed some hatred. I recognise that he was good in his other matches, but I refuse to accept that he was special back then, and I certainly didn't like him.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Benoit's performance in '94 against Sasuke provided one of my all-time favorite juniors matches ever, and he pulled Samurai kicking and screaming to an amazing match in the BOTSJ '93 tourniment final. He wasn't at his peak as a worker yet, but he was still damn good.

 

Tim pretty much summed up the entire Taue arguement, or lack there of. I'm perfectly willing to accept other's opinions if they're based on something, but only then. I don't want to insult anyone, but if you want to spout out the same "ARG, HE SUCKS!!!!" arguements over and over, don't expect anyone with a brain to be persuaded. The people who's opinions are trust are those who can explain why a certain match or worker isn't good, not just come up with countless, lame Taker/Kane jokes.

[Guest Will Scarlet]

Other than his WCW stint, I really never saw the big deal about Lance Storm. He comes off as rather vanilla to me.

[Guest bob_barron]

I don't like Storm either- I've only seen one good match of his.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Boy Lance is horrible. Bad seller, works so light with his kicks and punches, and has nothing in the way of charisma.

 

But he has never been good so I have never felt like I have over rated him.

 

To add on to my list, I would say a good chunk of the Miracle Violence Connection stuff is poor even though a good deal of people like it.

 

As for Benoit's character, he beat asses in NJPW. Liger was the man, Otani and Koji were the young punks, Guerrero was the foreign flyer, Sasuke was the daredevil.......Benoit kicked all of their asses as his character. Got to move by the J Cup stuff and really focus in on his other key NJPW work.

 

Tim

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I think the biggest problem people have with Taue is his apperance, and tend to overlook his actual performance. He may not have the body of an athlete or movie star looks, but he was still a damn good wrestler. In fact, I think he was a better overall worker than Kobashi in later 95. He was a consistent seller, had a nice tight move set, could play a great dickish heel, and was good at pacing.

 

And I don't care much for Chris Jericho. He just never seemed like anything special to me.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"And I don't care much for Chris Jericho. He just never seemed like anything special to me."

 

I fully agree.

 

Jericho has never been that sound in the ring and hasn't cut a decent promo since his WCW heel days.

 

Tim

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Shawn Michaels. I don't care that he's an ass outside the ring, but it too often affected his performances (ex. vs. Vader at Summerslam 96). I liked him in the late 80s/early 90s, but I hated him by the time he won the title.

[Guest Sassquatch]

Chris Jericho.

 

Put it this way:

 

Benoit was able to drag Kane and Big Show to some of their best matches in '01. The one that stands out is the May RAW Benoit/Show match where Benoit dragged Show to one of his best matches in his career.

 

Jericho on the other hand had some duds of matches with Kane in their late '01 feud. The point being is that Kane is an easier opponent to carry than Big Show and Jericho couldn't get anything watchable out of Kane.

 

The man's only saving grace is his immature charisma that he has that the fans connect with at times. Other than that, Jericho is nothing special.

[Guest bob_barron]

"And I don't care much for Chris Jericho. He just never seemed like anything special to me."

 

I fully agree.

 

Jericho has never been that sound in the ring and hasn't cut a decent promo since his WCW heel days.

 

Tim

Jericho's I AM NOT A JOKE promo right before Royal Rumble 2002 was one of the best promos I've ever seen.

 

When did Benoit face Kane in 2001- I don't remember that match.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I've never particularly cared for Benoit.

 

I respect his ringwork, but the guy dosen't do much for me.

 

However, I like his recent stuff against Angle.

[Guest Sassquatch]

"When did Benoit face Kane in 2001- I don't remember that match."

 

- bob barron

 

 

I meant to say 2000.

 

Benoit and Kane wrestled one another on a couple RAW's back in the Spring/Summer of 2000 and they also faced each other at Unforgiven '00 in the Fatal Four-Way match with the Rock and the Undertaker.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I think most people acknowledge that Benoit is, and always has been a better worker than Jericho, but Jericho still gets overrated quite a bit. His promo work was great in WCW, and that translated to good heat for all of his matches, but he was never a really good worker, something people seem to forget.

 

I've never cared for Curt Hennig's work as much as some. I have a personal bias towards good selling, and his is just too goofy to keep from laughing at. It hurts the quality of his matches for me.

 

It's always amusing to see him sell a kick to the leg by flopping onto his head, though.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I don't like Bret Hart that much.

 

Yeah...I said it.

 

He had some great matches (the two with Austin and the one with Owen stand out in my mind) but 99% of the time it was just the exact same boring match every time.

[Guest wolverine]

Present-day wrestlers I don't give two shits about, but who aren't "technically bad":

 

Jun Akiyama

Yuji Nagata

Hiroyoshi Tenzan

Koji Kanemoto

Minoru Tanaka

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I've stated my opinion of Taue before, but I'll do it this time with numbers so it's easier to read.

 

1.Dull moveset.

2.He's a poor athlete.

3.He bumps like a sack of wet laundry.

4.He had one "great" year with matches involving Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi.

 

To evaluate someone, you've got to compare him to his contemporaries, meaning Misawa, Kawada, and Kobashi, since they were all prominent around the same time. He doesn't hold a candle to any of those workers in ANY aspect. In terms of match quality, workrate, bumping, and character, he isn't even on their level. I've heard the "He was better than Kobashi in 95-96" argument, well, fine. That's TWO YEARS. What's he done recently? What did he do before that in singles? If it's not against Misawa, or in a great tag match, I have absolutely no use for him. He does little things that bother the piss out of me, too. For instance, he did the single worst pumphandle slam I've ever seen (in a tag vs. Ace/Williams, sure it's partly Ace's fault, too, but still) The worst tope suicida I've ever seen, which I dubbed the "step between the ropes and fall." Not to mention his goofy look.

 

Then how did Taue drag an excellent match out of a drugged up, old man Steve Williams in 1996 at the Carnival finals?

 

Easy, he didn't. That's the most overrated match I've ever seen. Piss poor bumping all around, sloppy work, and boring as hell. I hate that match.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

i should point out that i'm pretty good at starting wars over Taue. It seems. But yeah this thread is about people who are technically good who you don't care for. So there ya go. I have nothing against him really, i just think it's funny that people have fits about whether he's good or not. I'm a troll.

 

back to jericho, i never liked him till his heel turn, and think along with trish he's the most improved wrestler this year. Course, that hasn't helped his place in the card much. Owen and bret never really caught my eye either, but i was an 11 year old mark, and watching old tapes i now think both are great. Bret was a bit wooden on the charisma side of things though, and never seemed all that willing to sell. I definitely prefer owen.

[Guest wolverine]

Hey Agent,

 

You keep going on and on about what Taue physically does in the ring, but fail to mention ANYTHING about his ability to further storylines in tag settings, as well as doing the right things at the right times when it comes to psychology.

 

If you're watching 90's All Japan just for workrate, I'm afraid you chose the wrong promotion - since so much of their stuff has a much deeper meaning, so you can't have the attention span of a 2 year old to watch it.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Just to clear up the Taue thing in my opinion: I respect his wrestling skills, I know he's a good wrestler and all. I just don't like him.

 

BobBarron- TESTIFY dude! That " I Am Not A Joke" promo from Jericho was total sweetness. I dug how he totally interrupted the Rock and just got right up in his face about the whole issue. Great stuff.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

It's kind of funny the Taue has had more classic matches than either Ric Flair, Bret Hart, or Shawn Michaels.

 

Tim

 

Also add Yamazaki as a better worker than Mr. Michaels.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I've stated my opinion of Taue before, but I'll do it this time with numbers so it's easier to read.

 

1.Dull moveset.

2.He's a poor athlete.

3.He bumps like a sack of wet laundry.

4.He had one "great" year with matches involving Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi.

Well that's all your opinion, but about number 3. People forget that Taue has taken a Tiger Driver 91 and a Tiger Suplex 85. Hardly easy bumps. Not that bumping has anything to do with how good you are, see RVD.

[Guest godthedog]

It's kind of funny the Taue has had more classic matches than either Ric Flair, Bret Hart, or Shawn Michaels.

 

Tim

 

Also add Yamazaki as a better worker than Mr. Michaels.

those numbers (and the numbers of all the great all-japan guys) are so inflated because they faced each other all the time. if flair & steamboat or bret & owen had fought each other 4 times a year or more for 6 years, they'd have that many too.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I like Jericho as a character and think he's decent.

 

But that's about the extent of that.

 

And now he has no character anyway.

[Guest bob_barron]

I also don't like Great Muta either- everything I've seen him in has pretty much sucked