Birds of Prey

[Guest Sassquatch]

"Have you ever read a Batman comic or watched the movies? That answers most of your questions."

 

- Lethargic

 

 

Have you ever been to the Comic Book folder at the Smarts or are you just too ignorant and oblivious to look for easy answers?

 

Here you will find out if I have "read a Batman comic." Or is this all too much to ask?

 

Asking me if I have read a Batman comic book...that's priceless.

 

 

*snip*

 

"This show is a continuation of the movie series."

 

- Lethargic

 

 

Have you seen the first Batman movie by Tim Burton that was released in 1989? Please go on and explain why the Joker is still breathing in Birds of Prey since this show is a "continuation of the movie series."

 

Not to mention how Alicia Silverstone was a blonde in the Batman movie when they had her portray Batgirl yet she is a redhead in the show.

 

But I guess you'll have an answer to those questions Lethargic since you know *everything* about Batman and how it all ties into Birds of Prey.

 

*snips the rest*

 

That little rant you provided to me can be summed up as reaching for straws that are not really there and how you are desperately trying to make the show look like goof programming despite the logic problems in the writing and the crappy character outlines. Get your head out of your ass and stop trying to make up answers for everyone and passing them off as probable explanations.

 

Your last post in regards to explaining how the Huntress obtained her powers says everything about why this show is a mess and how you are making up answers/excuses for it. You shouldn't have to explain to people how the Huntress obtained her powers.

 

There is this one quote that stands out:

 

"I don't need Basil Exposition to pop up and explain every single detail to me."

 

- Lethargic

 

 

I'd say you're doing a mighty fine job of playing Basil for everyone in this thread Lethargic by pulling out the smoking gun for everyone to try and see.

[Guest starvenger]

Here's another thing to think about. In the beginning of the show, when giving the Catwoman/Batman backstory (and in the commercials as well), both are obviously white. How is it that their daughter is a lot darker? She should be white as snow.

well, I'd assume that New Gotham still has tanning beds. That, or she still hasn't washed the dirt when she left Seattle.

 

OK, having FINALLY watched the show (because I'm an Amazing Race junkie and the gf was here this weekend) I'm trying to piece together how they developed the main characters (I'm not that big on the DC stuff). If Sassquatch is the only one who gets this, well, that's OK.

 

- Batgirl/Oracle/Barbara Gordon is taken from regular DC continuity, where Joker crippled her. In the comics, she's basically THE info centre for JLA, Batman and Birds of Prey. Maybe others as well, but suffice to say that she's one of the most powerful heroes in the DCU (the power of information, dontcha know).

 

- Huntress/Helena Kyle is the Earth 2 Huntress, the duaghter of Batman and Catwoman. Her powers are basically that of Dark Angel or Vicky Pratt's character in Mutant X.

 

- Dinah Lance is... Raven from Teen Titans? I guess they thought that the sonic powers of Black Canary were kinda lame. The powers more or less match - empathic/telepathic powers. This also duplicates (kinda) the powers of the other Mutant X chick.

 

- Harley Quinn. Is this how they developed the DCU version? As I'm only familiar with the Batman:TAS version of the character.

 

Anyways, the show itself was OK. It was better than Firefly, but that's not saying a whole lot. I'll say about 6/10, and worth at least another look.

[Guest areacode212]

The origin of the DCU version of Harley Quinn is more or less the same to that of the B:TAS one (Paul Dini wrote both versions). She was an Arkham psychiatrist who fell in love with the Joker. Pick up the Harley Quinn one-shot that introduced the character--it's well worth it.

[Guest Lethargic]

Have you ever been to the Comic Book folder at the Smarts or are you just too ignorant and oblivious to look for easy answers?

 

No, I haven't been there. I didn't know it existed and I have no reason to visit a comic book message board. The only comic I care about is Batman, I've read it for 20 years now. Never had a reason to visit a comic message board to discuss shitty mutant stories or anything. And what answers would I be looking for there? YOU'RE the one that had a cookie cutter show like Birds of Prey fly right over your head. And if I did go there we'd probably just get into another lame argument and this one is enough for now. haha

 

Asking me if I have read a Batman comic book...that's priceless.

 

Well, show some sort of basic understanding of the characters and I wouldn't have to ask it.

 

Have you seen the first Batman movie by Tim Burton that was released in 1989? Please go on and explain why the Joker is still breathing in Birds of Prey since this show is a "continuation of the movie series."

 

Not to mention how Alicia Silverstone was a blonde in the Batman movie when they had her portray Batgirl yet she is a redhead in the show."

 

Well, gee, I don't know, how about they're fixing two of the biggest mistakes from those shitty ass movies? Just because it's a continuation doesn't mean they can't change and shift things from the movies. You may be the only person in the world actually complaining that the Joker isn't dead and that Barbara isn't a red-head. Priceless. Let me ask again, have you ever read a Batman comic book? Two things you may see in those things. 1. Barbara is a red head. 2. Joker has died a thousand times only to return again and again.

 

That little rant you provided to me can be summed up as reaching for straws that are not really there and how you are desperately trying to make the show look like goof programming despite the logic problems in the writing and the crappy character outlines. Get your head out of your ass and stop trying to make up answers for everyone and passing them off as probable explanations.

 

The only one with a head up a ass is you. You're the one that ASKED the questions. If you didn't want answers, why did you ask for them? I didn't make up shit. Almost everything I told you came from the show itself. The problem is that you don't seem to have the ability to watch something and actually understand the dialogue or the visuals. You need somebody to explain the show to you. Maybe you should'nt watch it. Hell, I didn't think the show was great or anything. I just think it was OK. It may get better, it may get worse. But you're asking questions that have NOTHING to do with the show. You're asking about the backstory. They didn't explain all that stuff because 1. they don't have time to explain every detail. It's only an hour long show, not a 2 hour movie and 2. they didn't NEED to explain. It has NO meaning at all. All we need to know is that Helena's mother is dead, Batgirl is crippled and the Joker did it. That's it. We don't need to know how he did it down to the very last detail. If you wanna ask about plot holes, why not ask about how Dinah just HAPPENED to dream about the two people and then just HAPPENED to meet up with them? Because THAT has something to do with the show. Your questions have nothing to do with the show.

 

Your last post in regards to explaining how the Huntress obtained her powers says everything about why this show is a mess and how you are making up answers/excuses for it. You shouldn't have to explain to people how the Huntress obtained her powers.

 

Exactly my point. They DIDN'T have to explain. Everybody else seems to understand it but you.

 

I'd say you're doing a mighty fine job of playing Basil for everyone in this thread Lethargic by pulling out the smoking gun for everyone to try and see.

 

Once again, YOU brought this dumbass crap up. Not me. YOU are the one that didn't understand the show even though it was a basic paint by numbers plot. YOU asked for it to be explained to you and I laid it out for you, I tried to make it as simple as possible for you to understand. I'm just trying to give help to somebody that cried out for it.

[Guest Lethargic]

By the way, Comics2Flim and Gotham Clock Tower are reporting some spoilers for the upcoming episodes of the show. Here are some hints about what's coming up. This answers some of the questions and gives a hint that maybe the rest could be answered in the future as well.

 

The sucky Huntress costume will be changed.

The Huntress "growl" sound effects have been taken out.

Dinah will have a more serious story arc over the first 6 episodes instead of just running around like a happy little girl all the time.

The lack of Helena's secret identity will be addressed.

Why Batman left will be explained.

Helena's powers and their connection to Batman Returns will be explained.

Black Canary, Dinah's Mom, will show up in the 5th episode.

 

See? Let's give the show more than one episode before questioning every single thing about it. Much of it could be left open on purpose to be answered later instead of giving us every little detail in the first episode.

[Guest J*ingus]

Helena's powers and their connection to Batman Returns will be explained.

It still doesn't explain the huge gaping plot hole that is this: in Batman Returns, the Joker is DEAD before Catwoman ever exists.

[Guest Lethargic]

Helena's powers and their connection to Batman Returns will be explained.

It still doesn't explain the huge gaping plot hole that is this: in Batman Returns, the Joker is DEAD before Catwoman ever exists.

Hopefully they're ignoring the stupidity of the first movie like I've been trying to do since 1989. haha Good God, killing the Joker. What morons.

 

I think it's safe to say that they are continuing off the movie series, but they are also taking a lot of influence from the comic as well. Some things come from the movie, some come from the comic. And of course you have to remember that this is from the same guys that turned Superman into Dawson's Creek and made Kryptonite into some crap that turns people into bullshit monsters. If you've seen all the changes they've made to the Superman mythos in Smallville you shouldn't be surprised that they'd be willing to change things we know or think we know in Birds to fit the story that they want to tell. That's what these guys do.

[Guest starvenger]

I think it's safe to say that they are continuing off the movie series, but they are also taking a lot of influence from the comic as well. Some things come from the movie, some come from the comic.

So basically, you're saying thay they're continuing from where the movies left off, but they're also NOT continuing from where the movies left off.

 

I don't think so. Check it out...

 

What they took from the movies:

- Batman and Catwoman had a romance

- Catwoman knew who Batman was.

 

What they took from the comics:

- Batgirl is Barbara Gordon

- Batgirl was paralysed by the Joker (who is alive and well) and became Oracle

- Huntress is Helena Kyle, daughter of Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle (pre-Crisis, Earth 2)... um, was the Earth 2 Catwoman a metahuman?

- Black Canary is Dinah Lance

 

What they took from TV:

- Batgirl is Barbara Gordon

- Harley Quinn, except that she's much more independent and much less the Joker's moll.

- The Joker's (who is alive and well) voice - Mark "Hope he shows up on the show in the flesh" Hamill

 

What they took from who-knows-where (although maybe they'll address this at some point):

- Dinah Lance is a runaway empath. OK, they stole that from Avi Arad.

- Her mom doesn't appear to be metahuman.

- Helena has a barcode on her neck. j/k, and yes, I WILL continue to make the Dark Angel comparisons as long as they insist on making her a copy of Max.

- "New" Gotham. Maybe Gotham had an earthquake? In which case, it mirrors the comics.

- Batman disappears. Well, they can't really use Batman (and presumably Robin and the Joker) much since the show isn't about him, so they needed something to move him away.

- The two cops. They take the place of Batman's usual police contacts (Gordon/O'Hara/Bullock/Montoya) and provide a love interest for Huntress. You can't spell WB without romance, I guess.

 

Anyways, the bottom line is that they took a lot of ideas from the various sources (the least of which seems to be the movies), combining it into a NEW continuity, the WB Birds of Prey TV series continuity. It's not a retcon or a continuation or anything like that - it's a NEW, UNATTACHED version of the Batman mythos. I don't see why we're trying to reconcile it as anything else.

 

Oh, and Lethargic, you really should visit the comic board. We don't jsut talk about "shitty mutant comics", we talk about other shitty comics (and books) as well.

[Guest Lethargic]

I think it's safe to say that they are continuing off the movie series, but they are also taking a lot of influence from the comic as well.  Some things come from the movie, some come from the comic.

So basically, you're saying thay they're continuing from where the movies left off, but they're also NOT continuing from where the movies left off.

 

I don't think so. Check it out...

 

What they took from the movies:

- Batman and Catwoman had a romance

- Catwoman knew who Batman was.

 

What they took from the comics:

- Batgirl is Barbara Gordon

- Batgirl was paralysed by the Joker (who is alive and well) and became Oracle

- Huntress is Helena Kyle, daughter of Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle (pre-Crisis, Earth 2)... um, was the Earth 2 Catwoman a metahuman?

- Black Canary is Dinah Lance

 

What they took from TV:

- Batgirl is Barbara Gordon

- Harley Quinn, except that she's much more independent and much less the Joker's moll.

- The Joker's (who is alive and well) voice - Mark "Hope he shows up on the show in the flesh" Hamill

 

What they took from who-knows-where (although maybe they'll address this at some point):

- Dinah Lance is a runaway empath. OK, they stole that from Avi Arad.

- Her mom doesn't appear to be metahuman.

- Helena has a barcode on her neck. j/k, and yes, I WILL continue to make the Dark Angel comparisons as long as they insist on making her a copy of Max.

- "New" Gotham. Maybe Gotham had an earthquake? In which case, it mirrors the comics.

- Batman disappears. Well, they can't really use Batman (and presumably Robin and the Joker) much since the show isn't about him, so they needed something to move him away.

- The two cops. They take the place of Batman's usual police contacts (Gordon/O'Hara/Bullock/Montoya) and provide a love interest for Huntress. You can't spell WB without romance, I guess.

 

Anyways, the bottom line is that they took a lot of ideas from the various sources (the least of which seems to be the movies), combining it into a NEW continuity, the WB Birds of Prey TV series continuity. It's not a retcon or a continuation or anything like that - it's a NEW, UNATTACHED version of the Batman mythos. I don't see why we're trying to reconcile it as anything else.

 

Oh, and Lethargic, you really should visit the comic board. We don't jsut talk about "shitty mutant comics", we talk about other shitty comics (and books) as well.

I agree totally. That's pretty much what I said in the post right before yours. It's meant to be continuation of the movies because that's all the non-fanboys know about Batman, BUT they are perfectly willing to bring other stuff from the comics and the rest of the Batman universe in order to tell the story they want to tell. These are the same guys that do Smallville. Watch that and then watch this and you know they're willing to change just about anything to fit what THEY want to do, not want any of us want to see.

[Guest starvenger]

Actually, you totally missed the point. Birds of Prey is like an "Elseworlds" concept book, or like Transformers Armada or Gundam Wing - there are some things that are the same, but everything else that you think you know is wrong.

 

Thus the intention of the series is not to copy anything from previous Batman mythos, but to create it's own. Not to bastardize Batman, not to change what we know about Batman, but to take some of the more minor characters from Batman, and carve out a new story for them.

[Guest areacode212]

I agree with starvenger too. I don't have a problem with accepting whatever backstory they give us. They'll probably get around to explaining it in more detail down the road.

 

So...did they improve on the pilot this week? I decided to take a long shower instead watching the show.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

This week's episode was better in that they actually did some character building. Dinah seemed less giddy and annoying. And Huntress ditched the tacky outfit for a better one.

 

Someone mentioned the lack of secret identity, but does anyone even really know her besides Oracle, Dinah, Alfred, and Harley Quinn? Well she does work at a bar, but she doesn't seem to hang out with anyone else. She's not like Bruce Wayne who everyone knew about.

 

They also cut down the one liners this week. In fact I can only think of one that annoyed me.

[Guest EdwardKnoxII]

Hey did anyone else kinda mark out when Barbara was naming the Robins? I think this is pretty good since now there could be a good chance of Nightwing or Robin III dropping by now.

[Guest Lethargic]

Actually, you totally missed the point. Birds of Prey is like an "Elseworlds" concept book, or like Transformers Armada or Gundam Wing - there are some things that are the same, but everything else that you think you know is wrong.

 

Thus the intention of the series is not to copy anything from previous Batman mythos, but to create it's own. Not to bastardize Batman, not to change what we know about Batman, but to take some of the more minor characters from Batman, and carve out a new story for them.

So, uh, yeah I'm still in total agreement, how am I missing the point? Because I didn't use the exact same wording as you? Sorry.

[Guest Lethargic]

I think the second episode was a lot better. It's already filled in a few of the "holes", it told us where the Joker was, it let us know why Harley is doing what she's doing and her affiliation with the Joker. This is exactly why I don't consider any of that crap plot holes. To me it's stuff left open on purpose for us to find out later. That is the stuff that keeps me wanting to watch again. I can't wait for the puzzle to come together. To find out where Batman went. What happened between him and the Joker.

 

The Huntress outfit was a LOT better too.

 

My logic gap is, why is Alfred still there when he's old as dirt?

 

And I'm also curious to find out why there has been no mention of Jim Gordon. Wonder if he'll be mentioned later or something, maybe part of the big thing that went on between Batman and the Joker and the turn of Gotham to New Gotham.

[Guest Zack Malibu]

- Huntress is Helena Kyle, daughter of Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle (pre-Crisis, Earth 2)... um, was the Earth 2 Catwoman a metahuman?

This is what I always figured...that Catwoman (in Prey continuity) is a metahuman, thus giving a reason behind Helena's powers.

[Guest starvenger]

Actually, you totally missed the point.  Birds of Prey is like an "Elseworlds" concept book, or like Transformers Armada or Gundam Wing - there are some things that are the same, but everything else that you think you know is wrong.  

 

Thus the intention of the series is not to copy anything from previous Batman mythos, but to create it's own.  Not to bastardize Batman, not to change what we know about Batman, but to take some of the more minor characters from Batman, and carve out a new story for them.

So, uh, yeah I'm still in total agreement, how am I missing the point? Because I didn't use the exact same wording as you? Sorry.

Well, you've basically been contradicting yourself in your posts. On one hand, you're saying it's an outright continuation of the movies (which it's not). On the other hand, you're also saying that it's not by virtue of the producers making changes.

 

I've been saying that it's not a continuation of anything, it's a whole new deal, set in an alternate Batman/DC universe, beholden to no previous Batman stories. Maybe that's what you were trying to get across, I dunno, but it didn't seem like it. If it was, my apologies.

 

Anyways, I'll probably get around to watching the ep this weekend, but I'm sure there's the usual "WB's voiceover guy pimps a bunch of pop albums at the end of the show" bumper. Because nothing says dark drama like pop music.

[Guest Sassquatch]

Since you "have no reason to visit a comic book message board" Lethargic, then you must have missed the article posted at COMICon (now Newsarama) last year in regards to the TV shows "connections" to the Batman continuity.

 

The Birds of Prey show is not a continuation of the movies, which was stated by "Birds of Prey" editor Matt Idelson along with Batman editor Bob Schreck when the announcement for the show came out over a year ago. They said how it did not fit in with the Batman movie canon and therefore had no ties to the old movies.

 

"Well, you've basically been contradicting yourself in your posts. On one hand, you're saying it's an outright continuation of the movies (which it's not). On the other hand, you're also saying that it's not by virtue of the producers making changes."

 

- starvenger

 

 

You have finally seen the light star.

 

The only reason that I stopped responding to this imbecile were for the exact reasons that you just listed above. It's pointless to argue with someone like this who is only blowing smoke out of their ass. He has mentioned several times how the TV show is "a continuation of the movies" yet he has no concrete and solid evidence/facts to back up this claim. Instead he claims that the show is merely extracting the elements from the movies that would make it impossible for the TV show to be a part of the Batman movie series:

 

"Hopefully they're ignoring the stupidity of the first movie like I've been trying to do since 1989. haha Good God, killing the Joker. What morons.

 

I think it's safe to say that they are continuing off the movie series, but they are also taking a lot of influence from the comic as well."

 

- Lethargic

 

 

 

I hate to break this to you Lethargic, but the show is in no way a continuation of the movie series. In fact, the show closely resembles the Pre-Crisis comic books version of the Huntress rather then any of the movies made.

 

For someone that talks about being a fan "for 20 years now" of Batman, you sure are lacking in areas.

 

If not, then you would have realized that the first time you mentioned how the TV show is a continuation of the movies was grossly informed. In fact, most of your knowledge seems to stem from the movie series or the TV shows with no indication that you have actually read "20 years" worth of Batman comics or have followed and studied the character.

 

"Well, show some sort of basic understanding of the characters and I wouldn't have to ask it."

 

- Lethargic

 

 

I've already established my knowledge of the Batman *medium* and not just his movie or TV show outlets. You have never posted in the Comic Book forum to the best of my knowledge in regards to Batman. You can say you are a "20 years" fan of Batman but you have in no way made anyone here actually believe you are anything more then some Batman fanboy who got hooked on the movie series and cartoon series when they first started.

 

I'd ask you how many Batman comic books you own for a guy who has "read it for 20 years now" but I feel like that would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Even more so if I asked you to also list the issues you own. Of course if you want to actually go ahead and list your Batman comic book collection in the Comic Book folder so everyone can see for themselves the extent of your knowledge in regards to Batman then go for it. I'd enjoy talking about how Batman almost got sliced to bits by Captain Boomerang in issue #322 of Batman.

 

The TV show resembles the Pre-Crisis comic book version of how the Huntress debuted more than anything. Courtesy of The Comic Archives:

 

The Huntress.

 

"Helena Wayne was born in 1957 to Bruce and Selina (Catwoman) Wayne of Gotham City. Helena was raised in a loving family, nurtured by ancestral wealth and the rich experiences of her adventurer parents. She was educated at the best of schools and vigorously trained to superb athletic prowess. Helena's education progressed in leaps and bounds, finishing college at age 18. Helena followed the family tradition and pursued a law degree. Upon completion of law school, she joined the firm of Cranston and Grayson through connections with Richard Grayson, the former ward of Bruce Wayne.

 

In 1976, "Silky" Cernak blackmailed Selina Wayne into donning her Catwoman gear once again, to rob the Gotham Civic Center, with fraudulent evidence that the Catwoman had committed murder in the 1950s. During the course of the robbery, Batman intervened; in the resulting conflict, a stray bullet struck Selina Wayne. Unbalanced from the impact, Catwoman fell several stories to her death. The loss of his wife shattered Wayne, who burned his Batman costume the night of Selina's death.

 

Equally traumatized, Helena fashioned a costume for herself and a set of personal weaponry derived from her parents' personal stock. She tracked Cernak, ultimately bringing him to justice. Committed to her pursuit of justice in her new costumed identity, she code-named herself "the Huntress" (DC Super-Stars #17).

 

Shortly after his wife's death, Bruce Wayne fell under the sway of the Psycho-Pirate, who convinced him to use his office in an attempt to brand the Justice Society of America as outlaws. The Huntress followed this case with some interest, observing in the shadows when the JSA finally resolved the case (All-Star Comics vol. 1 #69). She later intervened in a JSA case when Wildcat and the Star-Spangled Kid thwarted the Strike Force, a criminal operation financed by the Star-Spangled Kid's family fortune (All-Star Comics vol. 1 #70-71). When the Star-Spangled Kid resigned from active duty after this case, the Huntress joined the JSA full-time (All-Star Comics vol. 1 #72).

 

Privately, Helena Wayne remained an active member of Cranston, Grayson, and Wayne. She confronted a number of enemies, including the Thinker, Solomon Grundy, and the Joker (Wonder Woman vol. 1 #281-283). In the early 1980s, she became a police liaison as a result of her association with companion Harry Sims. She briefly associated herself with the fledgling super-group Infinity Incorporated (Infinity Inc. #1-12) but remained a member full-time of the JSA.

 

During the Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Huntress survived the initial confrontations with the minions of the Anti-Monitor. After the merging of five parallel Earths, the Huntress discovered that Helena Wayne's life no longer existed. The graves of her parents had vanished, and her life as she remembered it never occurred. Just before the end of the Crisis, the Anti-Monitor's minions attacked once more, and in attempting to protect several children, the Huntress was gravely injured. Despite the protection of Robin, the minions closed in and buried the Huntress, Robin, and Kole under a mountain of debris, slaying them all (Crisis on Infinite Earths #12). As the timeline of the new universe stabilized, the memory of the Huntress and all she had been faded from existence. The post-Crisis universe no longer remembers the existence of Helena Wayne or the Earth-2 Huntress."

 

 

I guess since Catwoman had blonde hair in the TV show, then that *must* mean that it is a continuation of the movie series or maybe it was Batman's black suit that gave you the idea that the show was part of the Batman movie series. Of course when the editors of the comic books state how the TV show has no connection to the movie series then you have a hard time making a connection to the two mediums.

 

You'd have a better chance at making a connection between Marvel's Hydro-Man and the man made of water from last night's episode.

[Guest Lethargic]

Actually, you totally missed the point.  Birds of Prey is like an "Elseworlds" concept book, or like Transformers Armada or Gundam Wing - there are some things that are the same, but everything else that you think you know is wrong.  

 

Thus the intention of the series is not to copy anything from previous Batman mythos, but to create it's own.  Not to bastardize Batman, not to change what we know about Batman, but to take some of the more minor characters from Batman, and carve out a new story for them.

So, uh, yeah I'm still in total agreement, how am I missing the point? Because I didn't use the exact same wording as you? Sorry.

Well, you've basically been contradicting yourself in your posts. On one hand, you're saying it's an outright continuation of the movies (which it's not). On the other hand, you're also saying that it's not by virtue of the producers making changes.

 

I've been saying that it's not a continuation of anything, it's a whole new deal, set in an alternate Batman/DC universe, beholden to no previous Batman stories. Maybe that's what you were trying to get across, I dunno, but it didn't seem like it. If it was, my apologies.

 

Anyways, I'll probably get around to watching the ep this weekend, but I'm sure there's the usual "WB's voiceover guy pimps a bunch of pop albums at the end of the show" bumper. Because nothing says dark drama like pop music.

Let me say it one more time. What I've said since the start, overall the show is billed as a continuation of the movie series. The commercials say that and the official promo stuff says that. BUT, that being said, that doesn't mean that they are a slave to what happened in those movies. They're simply telling their own story in their own overall universe. Taking stuff from here, taking stuff from there, making some of their own stuff up. And the movies connections they are using are mostly just to try to sucker the non-comic fans into watching it most likely. If you want to dispute that go ahead, but email the WB and talk to them about, it's not my show.

 

But yeah the pop music is there. That's one thing I can always get from Smallville and Birds. I'll always know what the latest pop rock hits are.

[Guest Lethargic]

"Since you "have no reason to visit a comic book message board" Lethargic, then you must have missed the article posted at COMICon (now Newsarama) last year in regards to the TV shows "connections" to the Batman continuity.

 

The Birds of Prey show is not a continuation of the movies, which was stated by "Birds of Prey" editor Matt Idelson along with Batman editor Bob Schreck when the announcement for the show came out over a year ago."

 

That's fine. No, I hadn't seen it. The people making it may not want it to be a continuation of the movie at all but that's exactly how the WB has marketed the series. Watch THIS and tell me that doesn't make it look like a sequel.

 

"The only reason that I stopped responding to this imbecile were for the exact reasons that you just listed above. It's pointless to argue with someone like this who is only blowing smoke out of their ass. He has mentioned several times how the TV show is "a continuation of the movies" yet he has no concrete and solid evidence/facts to back up this claim."

 

The trailer above is pretty concrete. Watching the show and seeing all the stuff taken from the movie is pretty concrete to me. Of course I don't even understand why this is even a issue. What does it matter if it's a 100%continuation or not especially when I've said countless times that it's not? I didn't know were having some fact filled debate here. I was merely discussing the show itself. When I WATCH the show, the feeling I get is that it's a semi-continuation of the movies. That's all. I don't know what the people behind the show are thinking. I'm simply discussing the show and what I get out of it by watching it. That's all. Not by reading interviews or anything else. From the SHOW.

 

"In fact, most of your knowledge seems to stem from the movie series or the TV shows with no indication that you have actually read "20 years" worth of Batman comics or have followed and studied the character."

 

We haven't discussed the comic book. We've discussed Birds of Prey. So reach for some more straws.

 

"I've already established my knowledge of the Batman *medium* and not just his movie or TV show outlets. You have never posted in the Comic Book forum to the best of my knowledge in regards to Batman."

 

You've done a lousy job in this thread. And I'm not talking about what issue this happened in or what issue that happened in or what obscure character you can pull out of your ass. I'm talking about the essence of the characters. Anybody can read a book and remember useless facts and meaningless details, or copy and paste them from other websites, that doesn't mean they understand them.

 

"You have never posted in the Comic Book forum to the best of my knowledge in regards to Batman."

 

No, I haven't. So what? Just because I haven't posted in a forum means that I don't know anything? So if I went over there and posted in a forum I have no interest in ever visiting and say "Hey doodz, that Batman guy he's pretty kewl!" then you'd believe that I've actually read a comic book? I've grown up on Batman since I was 6 years old. I really don't feel the need to prove anything to some dumbass on the internet.

 

"I'd ask you how many Batman comic books you own for a guy who has "read it for 20 years now" but I feel like that would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Even more so if I asked you to also list the issues you own. Of course if you want to actually go ahead and list your Batman comic book collection in the Comic Book folder so everyone can see for themselves the extent of your knowledge in regards to Batman then go for it."

 

I have no fucking clue how many issues I have. I've got like 12 full boxes in my closet. Once again, I'm not gonna take the hours out of my life that it would take to go through issues and issues of comic books like some kind of pimply faced anal retentive moron and write each and every single one of them down just for some stupid internet argument about a TV show. Sorry but I've got much better things to do.

 

And how does copying and pasting a bunch of info on the Huntress prove anything? Have I ever said that this Huntress is anything other than that version of her? No, I haven't. Is that a way to try to prove that it's not a continuation of the movies? I mean, it has no connection to that whatsoever cause last I checked the Huntress wasn't in the movies. So I don't understand the point of it.

 

And once again I ask, why does it even MATTER if it's a continuation or not? It's obvious that some of it is and some if it is not and that's all I've ever said. What's the point? Since you couldn't understand the first show you decided to just focus everything on this?

[Guest areacode212]

I think the only reason why people think that it's a continuation of the movie series is because they're either using footage from the movies or they're using the same costumes for the flashback scenes (they probably didn't have the budget to design and create new Batman & Catwoman costumes for 5-second flashbacks). At any rate, it isn't a continuation of anything, they're just using their own continuity.

 

Anyway, isn't it hard to believe that Mia Sara once looked like this:

 

[Guest Crucifixio Jones]

Man, don'tcha know a gigantic pissing contest like this was bound to happen with a "comic book"-based adaption.

 

"But her hair was BLONDE~! What are they doing?"

 

"I must be right...her hair's red now!"

 

"But his suit is black...it's all wrong...it's blue and grey in the comics...will he be wearing the symbol with the yellow disc around it or not?"

 

Man, you guys just need to sit back and enjoy the show. And Sass, if you want your "plotholes" all explained in the pilot, you need to start watching ALIAS...if you can't follow BOP and see that they're holding back certain info for later, let's see you follow the swerve-a-riffic ALIAS.

[Guest starvenger]

Man, you guys just need to sit back and enjoy the show. And Sass, if you want your "plotholes" all explained in the pilot, you need to start watching ALIAS...if you can't follow BOP and see that they're holding back certain info for later, let's see you follow the swerve-a-riffic ALIAS.

Actually, it's more looking for plot "connections" rather than plot "holes". I know it's a new universe, but since the characters are based on existing characters, it's interesting to see where they're getting their material from, and how they use it.

 

As a standalone product I find it to be decent but it's not the greatest show and it may have been better off being a syndie show.

 

And I don't watch Alias. No real reason why (i.e. no love or hate for the show), I just don't.

[Guest Sassquatch]

When I watched part of last weeks episode, I turned the channel to the Sopranos and left it there. The show just did not interest me or grab my attention and I never thought of going back to Alias after I went to the Sopranos.

 

I also do not understand the appeal of Garner. I don't think she is ugly by any means but I just do not find her as attractive as some people have made her out to be. Maybe it's just me.

 

My Sunday night 9:00 - 10:00 time slot goes to the Sopranos. Maybe after the Sopranos show has finally ended and if Alias is still on after that, I might be inclined to give the show a second chance.

[Guest Lethargic]

I also do not understand the appeal of Garner. I don't think she is ugly by any means but I just do not find her as attractive as some people have made her out to be. Maybe it's just me.

It's not just you, we can agree on that. haha

[Guest starvenger]

OK, rambling thoughts on Episode 3...

 

- Hey, it's Mimic!! Or is it Bishop with his initial powers? I swear that Marvel should sue.

- And a bar/hideout for Metahumans aka misfits. Maybe James Cameron should sue as well.

- On the other hand, the bar is hidden within "No Man's Land", which is a nod to a recent comic book storyline where Gotham was leveled by an earthquake.

- Bif Naked, "Leader". Screw Avril, THIS is Canada's rocker "grrrl".

- In that vein, less "happy" music is a good thing.

- You know, Ashley Scott looks better as a brunette.

- You know, I really hate it when the villain reveals himself to the hero halfway through.

- Is it bad that every time I see Dina Meyer I think of Starship Troopers?

- Ouch, bad BAD CGI. Only bad one I've seen so far, though...

- Oh, I see, he's the "mutant who hates himself". Wish they mentioned why he decided to start killing now, but seeing as he's gonna die anyway, I suppose that it doesn't really matter.

- Yep, there it is...

- OK, we got the "I'm here and I'm queer"-esque speech in early on. Let us never speak of this again...

- Hmm, you think they'll hook up later on?

- Hey, I just noticed the show's in widescreen...

- It's nice to see them finishing the show on the Space Needle... er, Watchtower. But do they have to play the happy music at the end?

- Overall, not a bad episode. I'll say 7/10.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Anyone catch the old school Batman reference in tonight's episode? With the Bust of Shakespear being the way into the secret hideout hidden behind some shelves.

[Guest areacode212]

Yeah, so I guess now we know why it's "New Gotham". Also, it's nice that Bludhaven is around...maybe Dick is hanging out there doing his cop thing. Everything about the episode was so cliched. You pretty much covered it all, except for the school scenes. At least Smallville has the interesting Luthor family subplot to keep me watching...I'm glad the one-liners and the growling effects are gone, but still, BoP really doesn't have much going for it so far.

[Guest Karnage]

What I also don't like about the whole pop music thing is that the songs have vocals and it plays while the characters of the show are talking.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Anyone find it strange that a Black cop would stand there and somewhat agree with a man who's ideas were blatantly racist?