A question that troubles me

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Well, after hearing all the ungodly hype over the NWA TNA X-Division, I decided to download the acclaimed 4-way from week...2, I think? Lynn-Ki-Styles-Psychosis. Anyways, I was looking forward to MOTYC class action.

I absolutely hated the match. I found it to be a boring and monotonous spotfest with really crappy booking. Psychosis and Ki looked like complete losers because of the way they were eliminated. The Styles-Lynn section was just stultifyingly boring. I have henceforth held a very dim view of people raving about X-Division matches. So, a spotfest. I couldn't stand it.

 

Now.

 

The other day, I saw the Ring of Honour Three-way between AmDragon, Ki and Daniels. Yet another complete spotfest, with virtually non-existent selling. Same result, surely? Nope. I fucking LOVED IT! It was just fantastic fun from start to finish, and some of the spots(particularly that Phoenix Splash onto a bridging Dragon) were jaw-dropping.

 

So, the question is, what made the three-way a good spotfest and the four-way a boring one. (For me personally of course) What makes a good spotfest? I'm still not sure of it myself, which is naturally why I'm looking for feedback. For one thing, I think that the ROH match had three workers with a hell of a lot of charisma. I was laughing like a bitch when Dragon and Ki were kicking the hell out Daniels' back. And, as previously mentioned, I felt the booking of the four-way was terrible. So, anyone else seen these two matches and would like to comment? In fact, is there anyone else who disliked the four-way? I haven't seen that many negative views towards it. Oh, and could anyone enlighten me as to whether Low Ki is a good wrestler or just an awesomely cool spot machine that could become stale(a la RVD)? All opinions appreciated.

[Guest razazteca]

if you want to see how bad a spotfest can truely be download the WWA 6 man cruiserweight match. It has the usual suspects of indy stars like Nova, Low Ki, Chris Daniels, AJ, Mamaluke, Shark Boy. This match had the people to put on a good match but it was unorganized cluster-fuck.

 

It all comes down to the booking really.

 

Get the week 4 NWA TNA part 2 file, it has a above average X Division match that you might like.

 

Low Ki is "an awesomey cool wrestler" as you put it, you cannot hate the Dragon Sleeper that Low Ki uses or the kicking which leads up to the Dragon Clutch.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Damn you. You pointed out a spelling mistake. Fear not, for I have used the evil power of the EDIT button. Muahahahaahahahahahahahaaa.

 

 

But yes, Ki's kicks are both vile and yet strangely pleasurable. I normally don't like gratuitous stiffness, but in his case I think I'll let it pass. Do you know if The Ki-Dragon ROH match is any good? Or indeed any combination of matches those two have had with each other or Daniels?

[Guest Ravenbomb]

the Low-Ki vs. AmDragon is awesomely awesome, probably somewhere around ****1/2, same as the three way, if you care.

 

Now...The Low-Ki vs. Christopher Daniels match from the same show is impossibly good, better than the first two, ***** (again, if you care), really, really, good.

[Guest razazteca]

week 4 does have Daniels and Low Ki in a six man elimination match which I enjoyed, the only bad part of it is that Tony Mamaluke and Kid Romeo missed a few spots.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Oh, I care. I think I've seen these two on Hotline somewhere, must pick 'em up. Did Ki wrestle twice in the same night then? Against opponents as stiff as AmDragon, that's quite something.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

I liked both matches (RoH more than NWA), so I don't know how much I can help. But I try.

 

First off, Psicosis got absolutly jobbed in the NWA match, he really had no purpose in the match at all.

 

The main thing I didn't like about the NWA match was all the false finishes. Don't get me wrong, I love false finishes, but if you go overboard, it gets retarded. I think that's what happened at the end of NWA, with Styles getting repeatedly crushed and never staying down, and it goes from "wow, he kicked out!" to "gee, he kicked out. stunning". Plus, Styles kicked out of about 5 pins in a row that he could (concievably) been down for 3 for. Then Lynn gets pushed off the turnbuckles (devestating) takes the corkscrew, and it's over. In the RoH match, the only real near fall I saw was Daniels' springboard moonsault, and Ki (or was it Dragon) didn't even kick out, he got saved by....uh....the other guy. Maybe I should go watch it.

 

Anyway, that was my big gripe between them. In retrospect, this probably won't help at all. Sorry.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

its better when there is a save and not a kick out with credible finishers. Thats why the ROH three way kicked so much ass and the NWA match was a spotfest of all spotfest.

[Guest Dace59]

Did Ki wrestle twice in the same night then? Against opponents as stiff as AmDragon, that's quite something.

 

American Dragon isnt normally stiff, just against Ki.

Because Ki is a sloppy stiff bastard and nearlly killed (and i do mean kill, really killed, dead and burried killed) buy kicking him full force in the chest and nearlly catching Dragon's Solarplexus.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

This was in thier RoH match Dace? Now I really want to check it out.

[Guest Dace59]

I can't remember off the top of my head.

But people like American Dragon and Daniels always work far stiffer against Ki becuase he's so damn dangerous, and they have to give what they get, to stay alive and ununjuried sometimes.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

I know I've never seen Daniels slap the piss outta somebody's mouth like he did to Ki in the three way, so that makes sense.

[Guest Dace59]

Yep, it's true.

There's a whole topic about hwo bad he is on the GameFAQs wrestling board.

 

There' been other times when he's kicked people full force in the face etc.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

I'd say check out some other X-Division matches.

 

As for Spotfests, it really does depend on the booking. Like, if there is even minor hints of psychology shown, then I like it. I still think the Lynn/RVD series in ECW produced some fine spotfests, because the same spots wouldn't work twice in the same match, or in the next match. I like when that happens.

 

LowKi is still the man .

[Guest Doyo]

There' been other times when he's kicked people full force in the face etc.

 

I think Low Ki's stiffness has been blown out of proportion. Do you or

anyone else have an example of this? I mean, if he really was to kick

someone full force in the face, their face would welt up or they would

have a black eye or whatever from just one blow.

[Guest J*ingus]

I mean, if he really was to kick someone full force in the face, their face would welt up or they would have a black eye or whatever from just one blow.

Not instantly. Bruises and welts, especially on the head, often take at least several minutes to form and darken.

[Guest Dace59]

Kid Sensation, IWC. Low Ki hit KS with an unprotected kick to the face during their first and only match

 

Japanese Pool Boy, ECWA. During a Battle Royal, Low Ki chops Pool Boy to the point where his chest begins to bleed

 

Sorry there are no dates, but the Fed, match and wrestlers should narrow it down a bit.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

I was wondering that about Ki. I usually don't like gratuitous stiffness, but for some reason I liked it in the three-way. Has he ever bothered trying to protect his opponent? One has to wonder how badly his matches would be affected if he had to tone down the stiffness.

[Guest razazteca]

in a match against Christopher St Connection, Low Ki, kicked the guy on the head so hard that CPR had to be done on him. [/mark mode]

 

I think the match was from Jersey All Pro

[Guest Dace59]

I was wondering that about Ki. I usually don't like gratuitous stiffness, but for some reason I liked it in the three-way. Has he ever bothered trying to protect his opponent? One has to wonder how badly his matches would be affected if he had to tone down the stiffness.

 

Ok, one more time, Ki's stiffness is not Best Mates, worked with each other for years, love to beat the unholy shit out of each other for fun and for the fans stiffness, it is:

Sloppy dangerous, harmful, life threating, SHOOT like, real blows stiffness, it's the worst kind of stiffness.

 

He has never botherd to protect his opps, and has try to HURT THEM ON PURPOSE, as in my above examples, his actions where delibarte and on perpose, not mess ups.

 

If he turned it down, his matches would be BETTER, be wouldnt hurt people, he'd be able to work with people, people would want to work with him, and he'd getter better matches all round.

[Guest Doyo]

Sloppy dangerous, harmful, life threating, SHOOT like, real blows stiffness, it's the worst kind of stiffness.

 

Yes he is stiff, but you are making it sound like he is out

to kill people. If Low Ki really laid full force kicks into any wrestler's

head, Brock Lesnar or whoever, they would probably be seriously

hurt. If they weren't knocked out then a real fight would ensue.

 

Have you seen the famous New Japan shoot kick incident from

1987? Akira Maeda kicks Riki Choshu square in the face from the

blind side. It was a tag team match and all the wrestlers run the

ring to keep Maeda and Choshu apart and the match just ends.

Choshu's face swelled all up and his orbital bone was broken.

Maeda ends up getting fired from the promotion.

 

He has never botherd to protect his opps, and has try to HURT THEM ON PURPOSE, as in my above examples, his actions where delibarte and on perpose, not mess ups.

 

Low Ki is not really fighting people - a wrestling match can't be

conducted without protecting your opponent. His kicks and chops

ARE stiff, but if they were anywhere near full force he would not

be wrestling anywhere. When he does the Ki Krusher, for example,

he has to make sure he brings his opponent down in such a way

so they land mostly with their back and not their neck.

There is no way in hell that someone

can try to hurt people on purpose in this business and be employed

by tons of indies. He has wrestled hundreds of matches against

many of the top indy wrestlers. Many feds want to employ

him and there seems to be an almost endless string of people

wanting to wrestle him. The wrestlers care about their

own and each other's safety. Anyone who tries to purposely hurt

them would not be allowed in the locker room. Try telling the 130

pound Amazing Red that Low Ki does not protect him and tries to

hurt him and Red would probably laugh.

 

I'm not saying that wrestling Low Ki would be a picnic, but neither

would many other things in wrestling. Having Jeff Hardy jump off

a ladder and put you through a table. Being powerbombed by

Vader. Ric Flair's chops, which have badly bruised people's chest.

And of course there is all the death match stuff.

[Guest Dace59]

He's not out to kill people, but you're just not that stiff.

You never kick someone unprotected in the face, look at the above example you gave.

 

As for not fighting, the example I gave about him and American Dragon.

It was a three kick combo to the chest. First kick is perfect, taken in the right place under the eblows, and as soon as Low Ki see's this he gets pissed off, takes a step back that Am Dragon doesnt see, and kicks him in the chest when Dragon tries to take the kick in the same way.

 

He offent lets peoples legs slip on the Ki Krusher, , which puts them in danger.

 

Most people dont want to work with Low Ki, they have one match and refuse to work with him ever again.

 

Red nearlly had his leg broken when Ki didnt hook the hanging dragon up right.

 

If you could ask guys like Daniels and Am Dragon, they'd say he's dangerous.

 

And your examples, well, you'd be going with tghose moves, you'd be working with the other wrestler. That doesnt happen with Low Ki it seems.

[Guest .3.0.7.]

Japanese Pool Boy, ECWA. During a Battle Royal, Low Ki chops Pool Boy to the point where his chest begins to bleed

just for clarification, this incident took place during the "summit rumble" at the ecwa super 8 tournament on march 2, 2002.

[Guest razazteca]

Well I just saw the Ring Of Honor match and would like to discuss the differences between ROH and NWA TNA in respect of the style being used.

 

ROH was one stiff match from the begining to the end, with Low Ki being the wrestler kicking the opponets in his usual manner. In one spot with American Dragon, when Ki kicked him in the back, Dragon made a face of "You Bastard" setting up the story of Dragon being pist at Low Ki. This became the focus of the match with Dragon hitting his spots then Low Ki always one upping him. Nearly all of the big spots involve this plot, from the kicking of Daniels back to the Triple Super Plex, and the finish.

 

In the NWA TNA match it was an elimation fast pace match with several fast pinfalls and the long final of Jerry Lynn vs AJ Styles. The main story of this was Jerry Lynn and AJ Styles in an battle of atrishion as each pinfall took alittle bit out of Lynn and the young lion AJ taking advantage of it. Psicosis was the JTTS as usual not doing much other than helping set up the next pinfall.

 

So inconclusion the ROH match was more influenced by Japan while the NWA TNA was influenced by Mexico.