Bret Hart and WrestleMania 18

[Guest mastermind]

Okay, I think someone at Titan Towers stole the idea from the old forum. I swear I saw someone post that. Hell, it might have been me(lol). I was/am the biggest Bret mark. I think he helped bridged the gap from Hulkamania into Austin 3:16/Attitude. The wwf was toast if it wasn't for Hart coming back and having the USA/Canada rivalry.

 

I agree about Hart sticking with his principles by not accepting the offer, but where did his principles in 1996 get him? Some might say what the hell I'm talking about here. People Bret Hart is a legend plain and simple and it's disgusting how his legacy won't be kept in respect like the other wwf pioneers or company makers. That is what Bret is for the wwf. When the wwf had to shake the stupid image it got in 1989 to 1992 of being a circus and cartoon, Bret stepped up to the plate to bring back the realism and bring back the actual wrestling(RAW's original setting in front of small audiences being a throwback). When the wwf could have gone really out of business in 1996 with Hart going "nWo" he stayed and help keep at least some star power in the wwf. The wwf owes Bret a great send off.

 

It's similar to Hulk Hogan. Say what you may about the man, but watching that video piece told me something. The wwf was at one time going to be so ignorant and ignore what Hulk Hogan did for the company. They ripped him in skits and they took every chance to kill what he did for the company.

 

I'm glad he came back(if for only the reason to leave properly), so he can at least go out properly. The same with Randy Savage I hope too. I'm not saying for them to steal the spotlight from the younger and newer guys either. Flair needs a proper send off as well. These guys have done above and beyond what many others have done for the business and deserve to be respected by fans and the company. Yeah, they got paid to do it, but the fact remains they moulded the company. At least Mick Foley got a proper send off as his legacy is in tact.

 

Bret Hart making one last appearance in Canada at WrestleMania saying good bye would put proper closure for Bret Hart and the fans. I say this because Bret seems like the person who will think back and say "I wonder if" when he's grey and old. Owen's death was an accident. Not to get all personal and sappy, but I went through multiple deaths under dubious distinction in 1999 as well. I'm saying this from personal experience. Bret has a lot of stuff pented up inside about his wwf finish and what happened with Owen.

 

I would have recommended Bret do this for himself because the ring was his home and so was the wwf. He'll always have that negative charge in him about his one time home in his heart. Sometimes a person's principle is all good and whatnot, but think about yourself sometimes. It would also be nice for Bret to see Canadians really do see him as a hero at SkyDome. I think it would have just been some great therapy for him to go out in Canada as a true hero.

 

I don't know maybe because I saw Bret on the WWA ppv(my friend has the black box and taped it for me*show is horrendous). He was incoherent and showed he really has Canadian pride, but almost got himself heel heat because of it. Using Bin Laden was also pretty cheap. He wouldn't of had this problem saying goodbye in front of a Canadian crowd.

 

I say good bye because Bret is done. It would be a crime for officials to allow him to return as a wrestler. I also think he would also benefit Owen's image in the public if he saluted Owen's memories to live on in the wwf. I don't know if that makes any sense. I mean he can bring closure publicly for Owen's accident by honouring Owen. Owen had no voice after his death. You see in many ways Bret can bring closure for things instead of sticking to HIS principles. However, I respect the man for whatever choice he makes because it is HIS choice.

[Guest art_vandelay]

Oh god, could you imagine Billy & Chuck and the APA in a TLC match?  Anyway, I think this match won't be bad because from what we've seen, multi-tag matches can be good, especially with a strong finish consisting of finisher after finisher.  You might be pleasantly surprised.  Definitely sounds more promising than C&B vs. APA.

 

And about Bret Hart.  If he said "yes" I would have been really pissed off at Dave Meltzer and my own curiousity for ruining the BIGGEST MARK OUT MOMENT OF ALL TIME.  Like others have said, I respect Bret for not giving in.  I'm sure he would want nothing more than closure and also for a chance end his career in front of a home crowd, but everybody would have called him a hypocrite after all the things he has said about his parents, and Bulldog for returning to the WWF in various ways.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

i don't want to even think about chuck&billy in a TLC match

[Guest Tony149]

This is off-topic, but I wouldn't use the TLC gimmick in the 4 way tag match.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"i don't want to even think about chuck&billy in a TLC match"

 

dude, that's the only way to get these guys over huge. I don't care for them myself but the crowd would beg for them to get smashed up. there would be huge heat  and the crowd would be sadistic as fuck prayinf Faarooq spinebustered Billy off the ladder into a table on the outside while the Dudleys pull out the lighter fluid and superbomb Palumbo onto the flaming table of thumbtacks while Jeff and Matt jump from the rafters into a fish bowl. ok the match would suck but it might be the only thing to get these guys some real genuine heat.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

well dude when you put it THAT way, bring on the tables, and pray that chuck&Billy pull a supreme. (kidding...maybe)

[Guest RedJed]

Great post Mastermind.......I pretty much agree with all you said.

 

Here would be the perfect scenarios for Bret more I think about it, IMO:

 

Mania: Regardless of the outcome of the WWF title match, HHH gets a beatdown after the match from Jericho, Steph, and Vince. All of a sudden Bret's music fires up and he comes out to a HUGE pop. Like many of you have said, the pop this would get would rivale perhaps nothing ever seen in wrestling. Vince looks like he's gonna shit his pants when he is making his way to the ring......Jericho and Stpeh convince him to stay around and stand up to him. Bret enters the ring and has a staredown in mid ring with Vince (Jericho and Steph continue to beat down HHH outside the ring). In an ironic twist, Vince spits in Bret's face to get huge heat to make the first move after the staredown. Bret then just goes apeshit on Vince, and in the meantime HHH fights off Jericho (puts him through an announcer table) and then throws Steph in the ring. While Bret applies Vince in the sharpshooter, HHH finally pedigrees Steph to end the ppv. This could be a great way to keep the belt on Jericho and easily get HHH's heat back after the match.

 

RAW: Have Vince come out to start the show, talking about what happened. This leads to Bret coming out to another huge pop and then go back and forth about everything. Could be one of the best opening promo segments ever in Raw history. Anyway it turns out that Flair comes out and makes Bret-Vince as the Raw ME (Flair can do this since he did with Vince at the Rumble, right?). Throughout the show, guys show respect to Bret, including his old rival, Austin.

 

Now the ME.......of course Hebner refs the match again..this time publicy promises Bret before the match he won't "screw him." Instead of believing him, Bret punches him out before the match even begins. Out comes a new ref appointed by Flair.......BENOIT. More Canadian justice. Anyway Bret just wipes the mat with Vince easily and then even after the match gets to do a farewell speech to the fans.

 

Wishful thinking, but still I would like to think that Vince might even be down with this scenario if he really wants Bret back.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Well I would mark out but it would mean both Vince and Bret swallowing their pride. and i doubt that will happen anytime soon.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"Owen's image in the public if he saluted Owen's memories to live on in the wwf. I don't know if that makes any sense. I mean he can bring closure publicly for Owen's accident by honouring Owen. "

 

i can see your point to an extent but it reminds me of what hhh said a couple of weeks ago. does everything you mcmahons do have to be played out on tv. some issues are better left private and i don't think making peace publicly is really an issue at all.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

i agree, peace chould be made between bet and vince but they should do it canadian style, over a cold one while watching hockey.

 

sidnote- goodhelmet was it you who said(in another forum) the content on the board was way better since we me moved? check out the hitman returns two threads and prepare to weep.

[Guest art_vandelay]

It would be pretty cool, but it would still get a 4.7 rating.  If Hogan didn't do it, I'm sure Bret and Benoit won't.

[Guest mastermind]

First off, I think everyone here should e-mail Bret's fan club with their take on the situation. It's [email protected] <[email protected]>

 

Goodhelmet, Bret wouldn't even have to acknowledge Owen if he didn't want to. Just being back and saying good bye would show Bret has made peace with the situation.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

it seems like to get  big ratings they might have to you know, wotk on all the product and not just one angle. who would ever think of that????

[Guest Tony149]

If the WWF wants ratings...they need to work on their writing to make entertaining TV. If it's entertaining the fans will come back.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"Goodhelmet, Bret wouldn't even have to acknowledge Owen if he didn't want to. Just being back and saying good bye would show Bret has made peace with the situation."

 

agreed, just that someone said it should be done as a public gesture and that doesn't need to be done.

 

 

"sidnote- goodhelmet was it you who said(in another forum) the content on the board was way better since we me moved? check out the hitman returns two threads and prepare to weep."

 

i feel your pain man.that is just pathetic.

 

Bret wouldn't pop the ratings anymore than hbk or hogan or any other star of the past would. without entertaining tv or coherent feuds, the wwf would just be putting another name out there with no direction.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

very true but it's said to say only canadians and us smarks really remember the events of survivor series 1997 so it wouldn't pop a huge rating in the us but in canada it would set a record

[Guest Tony149]

I think the WWF could make money off of Bret/Vince, but ratings probably wouldn't shoot up into the 6's just for this. Although with entertaining TV, it could.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

what you don't think the current product is entertaining????

[Guest goodhelmet]

"I think the WWF could make money off of Bret/Vince, but ratings probably wouldn't shoot up into the 6's just for this. Although with entertaining TV, it could."

 

With entertaining tv, the wwf could probably pop 6's regardless of the talent. unfortunately, for every good show, it is surrounded by 3 bad ones.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

no way it's only three bad shows for every good show it's more like three bad shows for every one good segment

[Guest Tony149]

Yeah, the WWF needs to get it's writing together. If it means taking Steph off the team, so be it. If you look back at the WWF in 1998. They got high ratings even though they didn't have the best talent. The writing was entertaining so people watched.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"no way it's only three bad shows for every good show it's more like three bad shows for every one good segment"

 

no shit. even last weeks RAW sucked except for the main event and the Hogan-Rock interview. everything else was dead in the water. And that was the only show I can remember that has any relavence. I can recall almost entire shows from the last four years but I'm drawing blanks on the last two months. It has been that bad.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

very true and steffie needs to go. i'd bring Johnny Ace to help with the matches, because i thought he did a good job in wcw until the russo factor set in (all things near russo must suck) and i'd have dean malenko book the crusierweight divison. and have arn anderson nd flair help book.

[Guest Tony149]

Johnny Ace does help with the matches. Flair was a good booker back in '89 & '94. I don't know if he could book the product today, but it would be interesting.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

he has an abilty to know when something sucks and to pull it. and he did apoligize for david having the us tittle and the tag tittles. so has class making him a better booker than everyone currently other than heyman

[Guest RedJed]

Honestly, bringing Bret back wouldn't be for ratings at all. If Bret came back, I'm sure they would only be able to work out a few shots MAX (Mania and Montreal) and the real purpose of bringing him back would be to make amends with Bret AND with all of the fans who felt Bret deserved better in the situation years ago. We all know how Bret feels about his character, in that he takes his role as a Canadian hero or whatever seriously. So this would help him come to terms with everything. It's moreless just coming full circle with arguably the single most landscape changing moment in wrestling history. No need to look deeply into it in how it would affect the entire product because it really wouldn't much at all. After the Montreal Raw, things would just be back to normal, the split would begin, etc. Hell, you could even add Vince having his ass handed to him by Bret and most of the roster actually respecting Bret as more of an antagonist for him to go even more crazy and demand the company splits off.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

bret regards himself as a canadian hero because to many canadians he is a hero. I know i'm a canadian and me and all my friends practiicly worship him. ratings up in the USA: maybe a little, but in canada: Ratings would go WAY WAY up if everyone knew he'd be there

[Guest art_vandelay]

But why would Bret demand the company to split off?  And if he does come, I'm thinking it will be more than a one-time deal.  Hennig and Goldust were one-time deals, but then things changed.  And yes, while Hennig and Goldust wanted to work for the company and Bret does not, I think there's a good chance he might change his mind.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

i bet he gets offers every year for wrestlemania. he won't change his mind because bret right or wrong sticks to his guns nd he's said he'll never return o he won't

[Guest CaptRiker]

Face reality here, there is no chance he'll be back. It basically goes against everything he has been complained and been bitter about over the past five years. What's he gonna say, "Oh, I was just kidding the whole time" ? Bret has always kept in kayfabe, always. Whether or not Survivor Series 97 was a work or not, I think Bret would carry the real truth with him to his grave. Going back to the WWF goes against everything he's done the last 5 years.