WWE RAW house shows giving me headache

[Guest Anglesault]

Test is arguably the best wrestler out of those three,

I have my own system of finding out who is better, Kane or Test. Okay, test had the match of his life against Eddy. Kane had his best match against whoever. So we match kane up with eddy, and Test up with Kane's best opponent. Then we compare the 4 matches. (Kane vs. Eddy, test vs. Eddy, Kane vs. ???, Test vs. ???) And whoever has the better matches against the same people is the better wrestler. Get it?

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

The best Kane match I've seen was against Angle on SD many months ago.

[Guest Anglesault]

The best Kane match I've seen was against Angle on SD many months ago.

Oh, well that my theory sucks.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

It was a while ago. Before Kane was injured, probably even before the roster split.

[Guest cabbageboy]

I just think Test was just some dude that RVD faced. He isn't going to feud with Test I don't think. Hell out of the UNS Test had the least heat and he's also in bad with the management right now.

 

Have faith in this much guys: once this wretched Kane thing bombs completely, they'll go back to RVD and HHH. it might make a decent feud between Dec. and Feb. when you know they'll built do HHH/Steiner at WM.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Have faith in this much guys: once this wretched Kane thing bombs completely, they'll go back to RVD and HHH. it might make a decent feud between Dec. and Feb. when you know they'll built do HHH/Steiner at WM.

RVD/HHH--gee, that's comforting. The matches will suck anyway and HHH will never put him over clean. Raw's a lost cause.

 

Although Steiner's possibility of injuring HHH puts some interest into it.

[Guest NoCalMike]

The sad thing about RVD right now, is that he has done everything he can at the level WWE has him at. So either WWE needs to swallow their "home grown" pride, and push the guy, or they can just have him draw the most face heat right under the main event picture. The worst part is that it looks like WWE has no intention of pushing him any further than his current role of, "grooming someone else for the main event push"

[Guest TheAnvil]

Well...it beats the RAW house show we had in my hometown a few months ago. The main-event was Bubba v. Big Show in a table match. It may have even been worse than it sounds.

 

Of course UT & RVD v. Benoit & Guerrero in a cage was in the middle of the event.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I am of the thinking that it was just RVD vs. random guy.

 

As an RVD fan, I don't care who he's facing at a house show...I just want to see him.

 

I think that's the philosophy in the WWE with him right now.

 

RVD: People just want to see him. And if we bring him out too early, those people will walk out.

[Guest SP-1]

EDIT: freak accident. delete.

[Guest AndrewTS]

I am of the thinking that it was just RVD vs. random guy.

 

As an RVD fan, I don't care who he's facing at a house show...I just want to see him.

 

I think that's the philosophy in the WWE with him right now.

 

RVD: People just want to see him. And if we bring him out too early, those people will walk out.

As much as a braindead fuckspigot that Vince, Steph, and the WWE writers are, I think this means that very soon, we are going to see HHH demoted. Chyna herself pointed out that HHH is gonna be walking on eggshells, and when the pressure that he's put under, and seeing people blatantly not give a fuck about him sets in, I think he'll crack.

 

*pow* on Steph...

 

And RVD will be main eventing, and HHH will be curtain-jerking as Necro Nick Needledick.

[Guest The Unsung Hero]

<Test is arguably the best wrestler out of those three>

 

Kane is much better than Test--Kane has speed, brawling and power abilities. Test just has, well, brawling. And a big boot. However, I will certainly concede that Test is better than Big Slow...and I would push Test over Slow any day of the week. And he's better than necrophilia. And now seeing test means seeing Stacy, so I'm all for it.

 

Unsung Hero

[Guest AndrewTS]

<Test is arguably the best wrestler out of those three>

 

Kane is much better than Test--Kane has speed, brawling and power abilities. Test just has, well, brawling. And a big boot. However, I will certainly concede that Test is better than Big Slow...and I would push Test over Slow any day of the week. And he's better than necrophilia. And now seeing test means seeing Stacy, so I'm all for it.

 

Unsung Hero

Which is why I said arguably--since, you know, I never watched many Test matches so I can't really definitively make a statement about that. Although I do think Test has some decent speed as well as power moves.

[Guest cabbageboy]

Well I didn't say HHH would put RVD over clean, but given a cool run in (think Michaels) it doesn't matter a hell of a lot. Did anyone care that Foley won over the Rock because Austin ran in? Not really.

 

And yes, so far the RVD/HHH matches have been less than stellar, I should think mainly due to HHH dominating large segments of the match with boring offense. Those matches have been booked foolishly. Going in we knew two things:

 

1. HHH can sell but has shitty offense.

2. RVD has great offense but is not so hot at selling.

 

Based on these two theories you would THINK that an RVD/HHH match would be mostly RVD getting in his offense with HHH selling....instead we get the exact opposite! I mean why does it matter if HHH gets offense if Flair runs in anyway? He could be getting his ass kicked the whole match and rely on the run in.

 

HHH wants to have his cake and eat it too. Only a cowardly heel relies on run in finishes to retain his title, yet he tries to be a monster heel and dominate his opponent during the match as well.

 

Flair used to rely on the run in because he woul be getting his ass kicked by Luger or whoever. Vader would dominate his opponent and rely scarcely on run ins. HHH tries to do it both ways and ends up sucking at both.

[cawthon777 0]

They tried to main event a house show with Bubba/HHH...and people left.

 

So they scrapped that feud altogether and went with Kane/HHH.

 

But they didn't main event house shows with that match...they went back to HHH/RVD to highlight the shows (my guess remains that they didn't want people walking out early on HHH/Kane.)

 

So that's fine.

 

Now they are going with HHH/KAne on the house shows...

 

but does it main event?

 

NO!!!!

 

According to the RAW house show notes from Topeka or wherever last night...

 

RVD vs. TEST!!! Was the last match!

 

Does the WWE know that RVD keeps butts in the seat?

 

TEST??????

 

And more importantly...if they have to resort to this so that fans don't go home early and unhappy (or why would you leave early?...Why not you know...push RVD.

They did main event with Triple H / Kane with every card it was on - as recent as this weekend. Kane / Angle only happened twice. I don't see it as Test getting a push because he hasn't been really featured on TV in a few weeks, aside from a loss to Al Snow (which goes to show what the WWE thinks of Test to begin with).

 

"Moreover, house shows are usually unscathed by politics. The best man will headline the house shows; however, RAW, SD, and PPV's are tainted with politics, which shunt RVD into the abyss, and hold HHH in the highest esteem."

 

For the most part, very true. Back in the late 80s, the Rockers used to face the Conquistadors to close cards that had such main event talent as Hogan, Dibiase, Savage, and Andre on them. This doesn't happen very often though.

 

I remember a house show I went to back in the summer of 93 that had Bret Hart vs. Yokozuna as the scheduled main event. However, the last match of the night was Mr. Perfect against Shawn Michaels, which def blew the other matches out of the water.

[Guest Brian]

Ehh, RVD's offense isn't really built for long stretches of beating guys up and his strikes, especially with someone who won't take harder kicks, aren't very good to say the least. Plus RVD's show time and time again that he can't seize the pace of a match. That'll make for disjointed match.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Ehh, RVD's offense isn't really built for long stretches of beating guys up and his strikes, especially with someone who won't take harder kicks, aren't very good to say the least. Plus RVD's show time and time again that he can't seize the pace of a match. That'll make for disjointed match.

WHAT? RVD can't pace a match and his strikes aren't very good? But I thought he was the solution to many problems and a viable main-eventer! I enjoy having all my main-event feuds rendered meaningless by a guy who can't project any serious desire! Really, I do! I also love the way his matches never get any heat for the heels! PUSH HIM, PUSH HIM NOW I SAY!

[Guest humongous2002]

I'm about to quote a great book best seller:if the fans popped for RVD because of his wrestling skills then Essa Rios would've been WWE champion a long time ago. Face it RVD haters , people pay tto see RVD.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

They did not main event shows with Kane/HHH after Bubba got demoted.

 

HHH/RVD was the match on all the cards, except for one that HHH wasn't even on, where RVD main evented against Flair.

 

I think RVD will be champion at Survivor Series.

 

They'll get my money one last time. I hope I see what I want this time.

[Guest Sakura]

Just wondering...

 

How many accounts of people walking was there? Just one person or a bunch of reports? How many people left? How many shows did this happen at?

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

RVD vs. Steiner sounds like a trainwreck feud that would be a complete style clash. Something like RVD vs. The Rock would work though, (assuming Rock is the guy who will be traded for Show) and would probably draw well at the same time.

[Guest subliminal_animal]

LOL, trading the Rock for Big Show.

[Guest subliminal_animal]

For the most part, very true. Back in the late 80s, the Rockers used to face the Conquistadors to close cards that had such main event talent as Hogan, Dibiase, Savage, and Andre on them. This doesn't happen very often though.

 

What's the logic in that? No one's sticking around for the Rockers and Conquistadors...

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

LOL, trading the Rock for Big Show.

Not my idea, but they implied it would happen on Byte This (although that probably means it WON'T happen).

[Guest alfdogg]

I thought jobbing to Jake Roberts was HHH's punishment

HHH's punishment was a four month I-C title reign that he was nowhere near over enough to deserve.

[Guest TheHulkster]

RVD needs a lot of work before he gets put in the position to be the top guy on Raw. His mic skills are atrocious, first of all. How is he going to sell programs with other wrestlers on "Wow, thats not cool dude" interviews every week. His ringwork is flawed at best. He still seems determined to work that mindless spot-spot-spot-spot Sabu bullshit when he is on offense. He's ok at selling untill he makes his comebacks, then it's as if nothing ever happened to him. Hacksaw Jim Duggan was really over during his WWF career because of an interactive catchphrase, it doesn't mean they should've put the company on his shoulders.

[Guest cabbageboy]

People might rag on RVD's various faults, but no one seems to have an idea of who is any better to be Raw's top guy at the moment. And don't say Booker because he is even more flawed than RVD in my book.

 

The main thing is that WWE simply won't let him do the style of match that made him famous: wild hardcore spotfests. Why do you think RVD scared the hell out of top guys when he debuted last July? He was out there doing crazy shit that no one had seen outside of ECW, completely exposing the boring WWF style, and had the fans eating it up. I heard for years how if RVD was in the WWF it would expose him...in fact the opposite happened, he exposed the WWF as routine kick/punch wrestling.

 

The faults people find in RVD's work are things that in ECW I thought were completely different from anything. For instance, watch Sabu/RVD tag matches. They are totally different from the beaten to death formula tag match of "face in peril, false tags, hot tag, finish" that is used 99% of the time. I'll admit that at times these matches have no flow to them (the Hayabusa/Hakushi match comes to mind), but at their best Sabu/RVD tag matches have a gleeful anarchy that deserves to be encouraged.

 

And yes I'm with BPS on this one: RVD at Series baby!

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"RVD needs a lot of work before he gets put in the position to be the top guy on Raw. "

 

He is the top guy on RAW. WWE has never been about pushing the people who put on ***** matches. You should have learned this by now. WWE makes money pushing the people that the fans want to see. Fans have been screaming that they want Van Dam for over a year, and the WWE has failed to deliver him.

 

"His mic skills are atrocious, first of all. How is he going to sell programs with other wrestlers on "Wow, thats not cool dude" interviews every week."

 

I'll say it again: If you need a 20 minute promo to make people care about your match, you aren't a very good wrestler.

 

"His ringwork is flawed at best."

 

Coming from someone with a screenname named after Hogan, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

"He still seems determined to work that mindless spot-spot-spot-spot Sabu bullshit when he is on offense."

 

Actually he is far and away superior to what he was in ECW when he worked that style. All you're complaining about is his moveset, which instead of containing punch punch punch, spinebuster, repeat, contains flashy moves.

 

"He's ok at selling untill he makes his comebacks, then it's as if nothing ever happened to him."

 

Almost like he "Hulks UP" eh, Hulkster?

 

"Hacksaw Jim Duggan was really over during his WWF career because of an interactive catchphrase, it doesn't mean they should've put the company on his shoulders."

 

 

Duggan was also never the most over man on the roster, nor was he the only person on the show that didn't cause people to either walk out, or turn off tv, or write hundreds of letters saying "I'll never watch again".

[Guest TheHulkster]

Yes but he also hasn't shown that he has had the ability to draw money. He doesn't really have much of an affect on ratings or ticket sales. If fans are clamoring for RVD to be at the top, then why hasn't his appearances on TV or the fact that he main events a house show translated into positive business? So I say it again, is he really ready to be the top guy on Raw right now? Interview skills are very important in North American wrestling. If you put him in the main event of Pay Per Views for the Raw side, will he be able to create enough heat for his match to draw a respectable buyrate? I don't think that i've seen an RVD feud in the WWE where I have said "Wow, I really want to see RVD kick that guy's ass". He's not at that point where he can carry his end of a potentially money making program.

[Guest cabbageboy]

Could that be because RVD hasn't BEEN in any sort of money drawing feud since he's been in WWE? If anything his booking has been horrid.

 

Second, the one thing resembling a money drawing angle he's been involved in was the initial ECW invasion angle that culminated in the Invasion PPV. That show did a monster buyrate and I can tell you that whole ECW angle with RVD debuting was a major part of it since WCW sure as hell didn't draw.

 

That said, the only way to find out if RVD can draw money is to put him in the position to draw money. As in give him the damn title and see what he can do with it.