Paul Wellstone Tribute

[Guest DrTom]

Then I guess wishing death upon non-famous people is cool?

Only if you don't mind not being able to post here anymore.

[Guest DrTom]

Dr. Tom, is it okay to at least wish bad things on Ted Kennedy? Can that one slide?

Wow, that's really tempting.

 

You can mock him all you want. But the board policy on wishing death and harm upon others has to apply, even to a waste of sperm and egg like Uncle Teddy.

[Guest bob_barron]

Can Ted Kennedy be the exception that proves the rule??

 

This memorial for Wellstone sounds pretty tasteless and disgusting and I'm glad Jessie Ventura walked out on it.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

And anyone who says that the Republicans wouldn't do this is a damn liar. Both parties would, one already has, and it happens to be the one you don't like. Get over it.

 

I'm registered as an Independent, and this is a good example of why.

 

Kotzenjunge

Getting Pretty Fucking Sick of This Partisan Bullshit

The Republicans would of done the same thing? You know that for a fact. No one knows how the Republicans would act, just like no one knew what the Rally/Memorial would be like. If Republicans did this, it would piss me and most Republicans off, just like this pissed off most Democrats.

[cawthon777 0]

As someone who advocated killing all of them earlier, I'm not listening to a word you say.

I never advocated killing all of them. ...Just the leaders whose only actions over the past few weeks / months have been attempts to hamper and debunk the Bush administration any way they can. I'm sick and tired of the partisnship myself and it seems like all the bad feelings are coming exclusively from the Dems, Streisand, 3/4s of Hollywood, or the ultra-liberal black leaders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who compare Powell and Rice to house slaves.

 

I don't care what your political affiliation is, you don't trash talk the President or the government during a time of war. The Federalists did that during the War of 1812 and it killed the entire party (history lesson for the day).

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Dumbass, the Federalist party was already dead by the War of 1812, they were simply BURIED by it. And what stupid unspoken protocol says that you aren't allowed to say anything negative about an administration in wartime? Nothing but another conservative tactic of accusing anyone on the left of subversion or treason just because we don't agree with what's being done. And only Republicans ever say there's a war on. To me, it's not a war at all, but rather a vaguely focused global campaign against a concept that will never be destroyed, as well as any countries that may be supporting it, or who don't happen to agree with us.

 

You said Clinton was in the group as well, and he hasn't done a thing to hamper the administration. And another thing, Ever consider that you goddamn right-wing pricks never give anything the left does a single chance either? Practice what you preach, rightist boy.

 

Kotzenjunge

Hates The Right

[Guest LooseCannon]

And what stupid unspoken protocol says that you aren't allowed to say anything negative about an administration in wartime? Nothing but another conservative tactic of accusing anyone on the left of subversion or treason just because we don't agree with what's being done.

I agree, the educated and well-informed have an obligation to speak up and defend their point of view or rebut their opponent's,especially if they think the course of action being taken is mistaken or wrong, regardless of the circumstances. It serves nobody's interest to squelch dialogue, and prevent valid arguments from reaching fruition in "the marketplace of ideas."

[Guest DrTom]

Nothing but another conservative tactic of accusing anyone on the left of subversion or treason just because we don't agree with what's being done.

Hardly. It's called "solidarity," and you might want to look into it. In times of war, the country should be united behind its President, whatever his party affiliation. Unfortunately, many Democrats have been taking potshots at the President and politicizing issues of the war effort. How much was FDR pilloried during WWII?

 

For the record, if Al Gore were president now, as much as I dislike him and his politics, I would support him as the President in the war effort against terrorism. Sometimes, bullshit partisan politics have to be tossed aside.

 

Ever consider that you goddamn right-wing pricks never give anything the left does a single chance either?

Physician, heal thyself. The Left is just as guilty of this. It's all part of the hopelessly partisan tone American politics have taken on within the last generation. Whenever the Republicans do something, the Left denounces their efforts as killing babies, tossing old people into the street, shutting down schools, etc. Both sides do it, so you should complain about it equally.

[Guest LooseCannon]

Nothing but another conservative tactic of accusing anyone on the left of subversion or treason just because we don't agree with what's being done.

Hardly. It's called "solidarity," and you might want to look into it. In times of war, the country should be united behind its President, whatever his party affiliation. Unfortunately, many Democrats have been taking potshots at the President and politicizing issues of the war effort. How much was FDR pilloried during WWII?

I couldn't disagree with you more. This so called "solidarity" is a newfound concept created by the right wing who liked to bitterly complain about domestic dissension during Vietnam as if that were the reason America ended up embarrassed over there. Personally, I think every person who did in his heart feel that it was wrong for the U.S. to be in Vietnam had an obligation to speak up right then and there, rather than wait untill the war ended and the bodies were buried, just for the sake of this expression squelching concept of "solidarity." For the record, there was not solidarity during WWII merely because we were at war. There was solidarity because any reasonable person could see that under the circumstances we were right to be at war. I'm not saying anything against the war on terror, but I find it reprehensible to use that argument to silence those who are against it. And it certainly should not be used to silence the debate on issues affecting the economy. The only thing I would give the President free ride on is tactics used during a war. That's one issue best left in the hands of the strategists with unique expertise and should not be politicized in any way.

[cawthon777 0]

You said Clinton was in the group as well, and he hasn't done a thing to hamper the administration. And another thing, Ever consider that you goddamn right-wing pricks never give anything the left does a single chance either? Practice what you preach, rightist boy.

Sad to say but whenever Bill Clinton says something, people listen. Not sure why that is really. A few weeks ago he criticized Bush going after Iraq instead of focusing exclusively on Bin Ladin...as though there's only one terrorist out there that wants us all dead. Keep in mind that it was Clinton that didn't do jack when he had the chance to get Bin Ladin back in 98. Sure, he sent some missiles over to distract the media for a day or two so they wouldn't focus on Monica Lewinsky but what good did that do?

 

Clinton knew Bin Ladin was out there. The administration knew what he was capable of, how much money he had, and what his intentions were. The guy didn't just pop up out of nowhere in 2001. If that adminstration had any balls at all we wouldn't be in this mess today, IMO (which I'm sure is not shared by several on this board so feel free to speak up). True, Dems aren't known for backing the military but during his 8 years in office Clinton gave the U.S. an aura of weakness that the terrorists picked up on. The U.S. didn't do enough in response to the various attacks we suffered over that time (93 bombing, USS Kohl, etc).

 

As far as solidarity goes, sure you can bitch and scream and yell if you really want to. But when you are a public figure and attack, not criticize but attack, leaders of this country nothing good comes of it. Daschle's temper tantrum a few weeks ago toward the President was sad to watch, the racial attacks toward Powell and Rice were uncalled for, the political rally / memorial where Trent Lott was booed was disgusting, and Barbara Streisand ... well ... I don't see how she's relevant to anything. Ghephardt and Lieberman are smart enough to disagree with the adminstration without stooping to that level.

 

And just to clear things up, I'm not for a war either. I can't really consider it to be a war if the other side doesn't get a chance to put up a fight.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Oh, it was fucking sickening. The political speeches given over his fucking corpse were appaling. NPR was playing select tidbits, and some assbag was SCREAMING about how the only way to honor his spirit was to fucking vote Democrat.

 

Ugh. It was really, really awful.

[Guest HartFan86]

Ventura walked out? Wow....don't blame him. Now people can offically see why he's lost his love for politics.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Ever consider that you goddamn right-wing pricks never give anything the left does a single chance either? Practice what you preach, rightist boy.

 

Kotzenjunge

Hates The Right

President Bush has bent over backwards to work the Democrats in Congress. Education with Senator Kennedy, farm legislation with Harkin and Wellstone, he went to Congress for an Iraqi resolution, he's trying to get the general council of the UN's approval for any military action against Iraq. Which is what the Dems wanted, but that doesn't matter he's still an awful man who according to some is worse than Bin Laden.

 

When they mentioned the times Paul Wellstone and a Republican worked together on an bill, it was the Republican Senator's who came over to Wellstone's side not the other way around.

 

Vern Gagne

Wants Kotzenjunge to be honest and admit he's a liberal and not a Independent.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Ventura walked out? Wow....don't blame him. Now people can offically see why he's lost his love for politics.

Ventura is another victim of the two-party system. His whole career he's been harassed by the Democrats and the Republicans at the same time.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Ventura walked out? Wow....don't blame him. Now people can offically see why he's lost his love for politics.

Ventura is another victim of the two-party system. His whole career he's been harassed by the Democrats and the Republicans at the same time.

Ventura's brought almost everything on himself. He's been an absentee governor for 4 years. He promised to be this Independent voice, but he's governed alot more like a liberal.

[Guest DrTom]

Personally, I think every person who did in his heart feel that it was wrong for the U.S. to be in Vietnam had an obligation to speak up right then and there

Of course. Americans should always exercise their freedom of speech, especially when they disagree with the government.

 

The "solidarity" I was referring to was among folks in the White House and on Capitol Hill. The government should present a unified front in times of war and crisis, and support the President. Business as usual has to go on in DC, but there's no reason for silly partisan sniping, political rallies thinly disguised as memorial services, etc. Both sides are guilty of playing these games, of course, but since the Dems aren't in the White House, it makes what they do that much more noticeable.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Hey, how about we talk about the Republican congressman who an hour (a fucking hour!) after the WTC collapsed on 9/11 went on cnn and said that this proves the Democrats wrong about spending more money from the budget on healthcare and education.

I find it interesting how this argument was completely no-sold. Carry on.