Guest Wheat Cracker Experience Report post Posted March 3, 2002 No order to any of these, just feel like bitching about the WWF: -The WCW-era NWO was a great angle because not only not only did it turn on WCW fans who saw them as the ultimate heels, but it brought over WWF fans who saw them as badass faces. It sucked for the same reason, as WCW couldn't decide to kill them or push them. The WWF-era NWO sucks because it not only bores WWF fans who see them as weak heels but pisses off WCW fans who have to realize that this--not the crusierwights or Sting/Flair/Luger--is their legacy. It's a great angle for the same reason, as the WWF should be killing them off soon. -The Women's division sucks because no one can decide whether they're wrestlers like Jazz and Ivory, T&A like Stacey and Torrie, or both like Molly and Lita. None of them are particularly great workers, and better masturbation fodder is available elsewhere. So no one will care and everyone will complain until the WWF a)fires all the women, Steph included (Steph especially!) or b) hires a bunch of Japanese women to wow the crowds as curtain jerkers or c)gets a show on HBO and lets Lita, Stacey, and Torrie get naked and feel each other up. -There hasn't been a believable face champion since the Rock lost to Kurt angle in Oct. 2000. I didn't buy the Rock in Feb. 2001 because I knew he was dropping to Austin to film his movie. I didn't buy Angle because he had a two-week reign that was basically a USA heat thing. I didn't buy Austin buring his aborted face turn when he joined the alliance, nor when the alliance ended because he didn't beat anybody. I'm not a mark, but I would still like to cheer a face and have him win against all odds and Go Home Happy. -The argument against RVD being depushed is that he needs to "pay his dues." After he does, the fans will be bored of the split-legged moonsault and the spinning legdrop. They should have given him the world title last year and put him over everyone in the promotion, one guy a week. If someone complained, told him to shut his pie-hole. It doesn't matter how unfair to the boys a push is, if it pops the fans, it's good for the business and that's good for the boys. -Remember the Mankind four-part interview where they played The Loved One and talked about his past. It humanized the character and made him from a gimmick to a top guy. They don't do that anymore. Your top guys are all cartoon characters, like they were in the days of the clique. The only guy that comes close to being real is Stone Cold. They should try, as an experiment, taking Kane's mask off, calling him Glen Jacobs, and talking about his crappy gimmicks. Bet you a dollar he gets over with the fans and starts getting heat. -Do you notice how, in tag matches, whenever the hot tag is to be made, it always a Sahara Desert tag--crawling on the belly, hand out, and a fainting dive? It wasn't always like that--sometimes they stood up and walked over for a tag, or did a somersault for the tag. Not a big point, but a glaring example of the general decadence. -So unless Vince wakes up and realizes that it's his company--not the Boys', not the stockholders', just his, and that his obligation as owner or manager or whatever the Hell his offical title is is to make the company profitable, and that to do that he needs to please the customers, and to do that he's got to do some things in the style of the '80s (like having the faces win once in a while) and some things in the Attitude style (like humanizing characters) and some things that haven't been done at all yet (like I don't know because it hasn't been done yet and that's the point). And furthermore, if he doesn't, more people will, like me, be content reading smackdown spoilers, live PPV coverage, and Keith reviews. -I could make a point about how this whole thing is a microcosm of American society at large, and point out as an example that the World Trade Center will most assuredly never be rebuilt as it once was even though most people, I think, want that, but since there's a committee deciding and not an individual, we'll get a 50 story building with a memorial wall, but it's late and I'm tired, so just do what I do and read way too much into everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Vanilla Midget Report post Posted March 3, 2002 good post, and all true. i had never really thought about the lack of face champs, and while trips will probably get the belt at mania, he probably wont have a lengthy reign, meaning that the heel dominance continues. however it is also my opinion that wrestling works better when the face chases the heel, but recently the faces have never been able to catch the heel without really turning heel themselves. on rvd, im one of his biggest supporters, but he shouldnt have gotten the world belt last year, he didnt need it, and probably wasnt ready for it. however it is a crime how over the guys is and how he is being wasted in the midcard quagmire. you'd think they'd have learnt their lesson following jericho, though the wwf has now shown that the old rule "once bitten twice shy" is not always true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Wheat Cracker Experience Report post Posted March 3, 2002 good post, and all true. i had never really thought about the lack of face champs, and while trips will probably get the belt at mania, he probably wont have a lengthy reign, meaning that the heel dominance continues. however it is also my opinion that wrestling works better when the face chases the heel, but recently the faces have never been able to catch the heel without really turning heel themselves. on rvd, im one of his biggest supporters, but he shouldnt have gotten the world belt last year, he didnt need it, and probably wasnt ready for it. however it is a crime how over the guys is and how he is being wasted in the midcard quagmire. you'd think they'd have learnt their lesson following jericho, though the wwf has now shown that the old rule "once bitten twice shy" is not always true. good post, and all true. i had never really thought about the lack of face champs, and while trips will probably get the belt at mania, he probably wont have a lengthy reign, meaning that the heel dominance continues. however it is also my opinion that wrestling works better when the face chases the heel, but recently the faces have never been able to catch the heel without really turning heel themselves. Yes, the chase is better than the victory, but without the victory the chase is meaningless. Imagine if Stone Cold had lost at Wrestlemania XV. The whole McMahon/Austin story would have been unfinished. Now yes, once he won the belt, they didn't have anything else to do with him, but at least they had vindicated the prior year. In 2000, they had Rock lose at WM, but win at Backlash. OK, a slight wait, but a blowoff nonetheless. Post-blowoff letdowns can be recovered from. Lack of blowoffs are the poison that kills the company. Remember when Sting beat Flair clean? Or when he beat Hogan clean? Of course you don't, because WCW was all about the chase, and when the biggest blowoff of the company's history happened, it happened on the last Nitro ever and had less pop than the ring explosion in the King of the Deathmatch match. on rvd, im one of his biggest supporters, but he shouldnt have gotten the world belt last year, he didnt need it, and probably wasnt ready for it. however it is a crime how over the guys is and how he is being wasted in the midcard quagmire. you'd think they'd have learnt their lesson following jericho, though the wwf has now shown that the old rule "once bitten twice shy" is not always true. <Sophia Mode>Let me tell you a story: one time, the WWF had a problem where their champion wanted to leave, and they had no former champions or no. 1 contenders to carry the company. So they had to put the belt on a midcarder. The only thing they could do was to put him over everyone, face, heel, midcard, main eventer, a title match every week. Clean wins, with his finisher, no cheap rollups. Finally the fans bought this guy as a champion. And that mans name was. . . Bret Hart. Course, it all went to his head and it ruined his life, but that was several years later and the company made lots of money in the interim.</Sophia Mode> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Vanilla Midget Report post Posted March 3, 2002 <Sophia Mode>Let me tell you a story: one time, the WWF had a problem where their champion wanted to leave, and they had no former champions or no. 1 contenders to carry the company. So they had to put the belt on a midcarder. The only thing they could do was to put him over everyone, face, heel, midcard, main eventer, a title match every week. Clean wins, with his finisher, no cheap rollups. Finally the fans bought this guy as a champion. And that mans name was. . . Bret Hart. Course, it all went to his head and it ruined his life, but that was several years later and the company made lots of money in the interim.</Sophia Mode> yes, it worked for bret hart, but the wwf was in a different situation back then. as you said there were no champs or contenders to take the belt so they pushed bret. last year there were an abundance of former champs and contenders, so there was no need to push rvd that high or hard. also, by holding out on rvd's reign, it will make his first reign all the more special, as the fans will have waited to see it. like foley, the fans waited and waited, and i know i totally marked when he finally won the belt. rvd didnt need to be champ, but he didnt need to be buried either. he needed a slow build through the upper midcard and uppercard. now hopefully once he goes over real at mania he can achieve this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted March 3, 2002 The only thing that Wcw had to even challenge the Wwf after the Attitude era began was one man. Goldberg. Goldberg rejuvinated the company and kept the fans for at least 2 years more. Wwf could have made RVD their goldberg. I think the lack of education on their fans by the Wwf is killing them. They should have been making a progressive effort in getting 'wrestling' over, rather than sports entertainment. By making wrestling cool the Wwf has a lot more chances to keep the fans, possibly, forever, since their roster is deep with talent. Too many writers not enough bookers. The matches revolve around the storylines. That creative process is killing them. Plot holes after plot holes and horrible feuds is because of this. Now they have to have a reason for every match, rather than just having 2 guys fight for a better position in the company. Too many screwie finishes, the fans never are truly satisfied, everything is left open. I HATE THAT. How about having a guy get pinned CLEANLY and have his opponent be the better man for that day. Then have the loser work harder, train harder and EVOLVE as a wrestler to win the rematch... Too many buildups not enough pay offs... So basically I agree. Cept for that Kane thing...Fire the bastard. PUN! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted March 3, 2002 like the nWo angle the goldberg phenomanan can't be redone. when was the last time you saw an angle that was almost exactly the same become almost or even more sucssesful than the origanal angle? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted March 3, 2002 Sure it can. You have RVD run roughshod over everyone in the promotion working his way up to the top. Fans will always cheer an asskickin winner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted March 3, 2002 but it won't be as believable as goldberg, goldberg was a big big man with an offense designed for crushes RVD's not. besides having a wrestler running roughshod over everyone will only lead to problems in the future. it won't be believable for anyone to beat him if he beats all the roster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted March 3, 2002 This is true, but its still an option. Or at least it was back when RVD was on fire. I am sure the geniuses at Titan Towers could have thought of something to fix the problem of defeating the unbeatable. Sometimes, if I try real hard and am drunk enough, I can convince myself that there a geniuses at Titan Towers... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted March 3, 2002 i know it's just an opinion and i too love RVD. i don't have to get drunk to convince myself that there are genusies at titan towers I know there are i mean Ric Flair must go their sometimes. it's just that they don't utilize the genusies. all they care about is getting vince and stephanie on tv as often as possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted March 3, 2002 OPTION! The Wwf could have pushed RVD to the moon but they were bastards and had to adhere to some fucked up schedule that says 'so and so is pushed in november, so and so is pushed in october'. Goldberg was a phenominon and Wcw was smart to ride the wave as the Nwo was shite. New stars, thats what the Wwf needs. And RVD could have been one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted March 3, 2002 D'OH i meant to put option but i was thinking about another thread. yeah the wcw was smart to ride goldberg but they had the hogan-goldberg blowoff to soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted March 3, 2002 Its no secret Wrestling has a history of ups and downs. Its best for a company to ride it out, rather than try to take on the impossiable task of staying number one forever. However there is no point in having your company decend in to obscurity. Why is the ratings down? The WWF right now is to Nostalagic(sp?). Its like when WCW was doing late 80s WWF in the mid 90s. Sure its nice for the casual fan to see something familar. But also rehashing something which time has come and gone, will not skyrocket in popularity like it once did. Do it enough, and will become flat out boring. Its when something is fresh, new, and exicting does it skyrocket. It was Hogan doing the NWO that made him a household name again, not playing WWF superhero Hulk. The answer is simple build new superstars in the MIDCARD. Guys like the Rock, Angle still have many many years ahead of them. But without fresh fueds they will become just as stale as a wrestler 20 years past his prime. Don't push guys like RVD into the main event to make them important. Simply make the midcard important. Make the IC title mean something again. Remember the Ultimate Warrior, like him or hate him, was exteremly over just as the IC champ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mystery Eskimo Report post Posted March 4, 2002 Something new is needed. The Attitude Era is drawing to a close and rehashing the nWo will not save it. I couldn't agree that RVD should have been champ. He was fresh, exciting and extremely over. The WWF missed the chance to catch the lightning in the bottle. I'm sure he will be champ one day, but will it have the same effect? Storm, RVD, Helms, Rhyno etc are the future and need to start being treated as such. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
