Top 20 Favorite AJPW Matches of the 1990's

[Guest Jubuki]

Haha...how can I hope to contend with the vast experience of One Who Has Taken a Back Bump~! Please...how many times must you see the words "credible finish" before you get the point? He used it to pin people when he started; he's using it to pin people now. That gets it over; not looks.

 

"I've had someone perform Task A on me one time before. Therefore, I can tell just by looking that, despite never working with Person X, that his performance of Task A is woefully subpar."

[Guest J*ingus]

That's pretty close to flaming, Chris, watch yourself. And you never did answer my question: have you ever been in the ring yourself? Been trained? Had anything to do with a real show?

 

Please...how many times must you see the words "credible finish" before you get the point? He used it to pin people when he started; he's using it to pin people now. That gets it over; not looks.

 

I'm not talking about whether or not it's over with the Japanese fans, or whether it should be; I'm just saying that I think it looks like shit and don't buy it.

 

"I've had someone perform Task A on me one time before. Therefore, I can tell just by looking that, despite never working with Person X, that his performance of Task A is woefully subpar."

 

And any 12 year old mark who's ever seen an Undertaker match will probably look at Taue's nodowa and go "Whoa, that sucked."

[Guest Jubuki]

Spend your time threatening someone else, son. You kids want to boot someone for knowing more than you, go right ahead. And no, I haven't been trained - but that's because I have enough gray matter in my head to make better use of my life. If you buy the "workers decide how fans see matches" bullshit, then that's the money mark in you buying into someone else's excuse for cruddy work. Wrestling is a PERFORMANCE; it goes further than bumps and execution, and, when it's good, it requires the kind of training that a 2-year-old picks up from its parents as much as it does cardiovascular fitness or strength. There's a reason words like 'dramatic' or 'emotional' or 'exciting' get bandied around so much - that's what the audience connects to: expressing emotions, a sense of what's dramatic. That has nothing to do with "real" shows or getting in the ring or any of the kind of insider cred garbage you're trying to use; you either know what makes for good drama, or you don't. And frankly, most wrestlers could stand to learn a few hundred things.

 

Funny - I've spoken to a few wrestlers in my time, too, and I've never had one tell me anything I wrote was totally full of shit from a "trained wrestler's perspective." I only get that from the loudmouth fans who don't know their asses from their elbows.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Amen to that Jubuki!

 

It doesn't matter if Taue's nodowa doesn't look as impressive as UT's chokeslam, looks are, at best, of marginal importance in puroresu. A 12 year old mark would probably think the nodowa looked like shit - but American children are not who the puro guys are aiming at, so why the hell does it matter?

 

And just to destroy your argument some more; The Rock's finisher is an elbow drop, does that look like it could KO someone? Does this affect his match quality? No, because the fans buy the move as a finish, and he works the move into the match perfectly, according to the American style that is. Same as Taue with the nodowa then? Yes.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Not saying I like the people's elbow or anything, but elbowing someone in the dome would hurt more than roughly shoving someone backwards while looking menacing.

[Guest XdojimeX]

Taue had a judo/sumo background iirc, so that's where the form for his nodowa might have been derived from. Intended more as a throw than a "slam" (see; judo inspired STO). So it looks a little odd if you're conditioned to the American version at first. Still perfectly credible though. Speaking of who came up with the first nodowa/chokeslam anyway? Was it Taue? I'm thinking it might be Gordy though...

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

You know I actually like Taue's Nodowa alot more than Undertaker or Big Show's chokeslam. Taue's looks more like he's crushing the guys throat upon impact(most of the time), while Undertaker just throws the guy down without keeping his grip on their throat. But the Undertaker's chokeslam looks like shit when compared to Vadar's, so does that make the Undertaker's chokeslam not credible. And The Dynamic Bomb and the Throwing Back Drop are much cooler moves IMO.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

The Nodowa is put over further by the fact that whenever Taue goes for it his opponent always tries to avoid it like it is an ultra-devastating move. The Nodowa is usually teased throughout the early stages of the match and when it is finally hit it makes for a great near fall because the audience has bought into it as being credible.

 

Taue also performed the most graceful Plancha Suicida ever.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Rock's repetoir of moves that "don't look credible" goes beyond the people's elbow; the Rock bottom is no more devastating in appearance than Taue's nodawa.

 

The Stunner, a move that almost always spelt death for the guy receiving it, hardly looks painfull at all, and anyone who wished to could notice that Austin's ass recieved more damage from the move than his opponent's neck.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

The Nodowa is put over further by the fact that whenever Taue goes for it his opponent always tries to avoid it like it is an ultra-devastating move. The Nodowa is usually teased throughout the early stages of the match and when it is finally hit it makes for a great near fall because the audience has bought into it as being credible.

 

Taue also performed the most graceful Plancha Suicida ever.

Alot of people also forget that Taue had a beautiful missile dropkick in his younger days, looked better than Misawa's.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Well having a better missile dropkick than a small, green loving, troll with shit hair isn't too hard.

[Guest benoitrules2000]

I have to admit that i like the nodowa and immediately likened it to the rock bottom.

 

As for height, depending on how fast the opponent runs into it, it does get good height and thus looks devastating.

 

And jubuki's right it doesn't even matter if it's credible, it depends on how much the wrestlers put it over, If the nodowa is sold like death, marks are gonna see it as a devastating move.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

The move's credible. Now we need to get this thread up to 57 posts like the "Chris Coey hurt my feelings" thread in the NHB thread.

 

Whooopie!!!!!!!

 

Tim

[Guest benoitrules2000]

I'm game.

[Guest benoitrules2000]

44

13 to go!

[Guest Jubuki]

Bump. Nodowa Bump.

 

But now bumping is useless - the Goon Squad has put it into the 90's.

[Guest benoitrules2000]

Jingus posted once in the entire thread and didn't respond to anything.

[Guest McLeary]

I like Taue's nodowa as a move, but there have been some really awful looking ones at times. Standing out in my mind are the nodowas that I saw featured in the highlight reel of CC'97. I remember him giving them to Ace and Giant Kimala specifically. The Kimala one in particular was like watching the business drop its pants right there in front of you.

 

 

 

On a different note, am I the only one who enjoyed the two Misawa vs. Kawada matches from '93 as opposed to 6-3-94? Maybe it was just from seeing the immediate build-up of the hate angle, which I was really into, or maybe I need to take another look at 6-3-94. But seeing as how that match is the culmination of everythig that had gone down in All Japan up to tht point, I might need a bit more footage to appreciate it in the right context( At one point, 6-94 was the earliest AJ I had seen, and even though I was familiar with both guys and was somewhat aware of their history, it only seemed ****1/2-ish on it's own.)

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

On a different note, am I the only one who enjoyed the two Misawa vs. Kawada matches from '93 as opposed to 6-3-94? Maybe it was just from seeing the immediate build-up of the hate angle,  which I was really into, or maybe I need to take another look at 6-3-94. But seeing as how that match is the culmination of everythig that had gone down in All Japan up to tht point, I might need a bit more footage to appreciate it in the right context( At one point, 6-94 was the earliest AJ I had seen, and even though I was familiar with both guys and was somewhat aware of their history, it only seemed ****1/2-ish on it's own.)

Hell no, I enjoy the 93 matches, as well the wild 95 match(except for the bad ending, but that's another topic) alot more than 6/3/94. However 6/3/94 is still superior due to the not only complex but great story it told, that surpassed every previous singles match in that category. It's not a work rate hell on wheels classic, it's simply a flawlessly executed and paced, dramatic story told in the ring.

[Guest wolverine]

By "wild 95 match" I assume you are talking about 7/24/95. I was really digging the hell out of it the other day - just thought the pacing was awesome. Elbow finish had been done before (3/27/93) but it didn't bother me that much. Definitely a must-see.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

I finally saw 7/24/95 last week and loved it, as a stand alone match I'd pick it over 6/94. I'd put it as one of my 20 favorite matches ever.

 

My list of matches from certain AJ rivalries that I've seen and liked best.

 

Kawada vs. Misawa

 

1. 6/3/94

2. 7/24/95

3. 3/27/93

4. 6/7/97

5. 5/1/98

6. 7/29/93

7. 1/22/99

8. 8/1/99

 

Misawa/Kobashi vs. Taue/Kawada

 

1. 6/9/95

2. 12/3/93

3. 5/21/94

4. 10/15/95

5. 1/24/95

 

Kobashi vs. Misawa

 

1. 1/20/97

2. 10/30/98

3. 10/21/97

4. 3/31/96

5. 4/19/97

6. 6/11/99

7. 3/26/95

8. 4/12/93

9. 10/25/95

10. 4/11/00

11. 3/6/90

12. 4/5/91

[Guest wolverine]

Misawa vs. Kawada

 

1. 6/3/94

2. 7/24/95

3. 7/29/93

4. 3/27/93

5. 4/6/95

6. 10/21/92

7. 6/6/97

8. 1/22/99

9. 5/1/98

10. 3/31/00

11. 4/19/97

 

Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue

 

1. 12/3/93

1. 6/9/95

3. 10/15/95

4. 5/21/94

5. 6/1/93

6. 12/9/95

7. 1/24/95

 

Misawa vs. Kobashi

 

1. 1/20/97

2. 10/21/97

3. 4/19/97

4. 3/31/96

5. 4/12/93

6. 3/26/95

7. 6/11/99

8. 4/11/00

9. 10/31/98

10. 10/25/95

[Guest DragonflyKid]

KK/MM vs. Taue/Kawada 6/1/93 and 12/9/95 both intrigue me and I'll likely try to get them. Are both important in terms of needful AJ psychology, does watching 6/93 for instance benifit one watching 12/93 or a later match between the participants?

[Guest wolverine]

I hated the 12/95 match quite a bit. Not to the extent of 1/95, which made me want to smash the tape into pieces due to its shitty pacing (combined with Taue's horrible work), but all of the go nowhere submission stuff they were doing bored me. By this point, the pairing was really tired.

 

And 6/93 is nice to have since it's the teams' first match against each other. And, oh yeah, Baba said it was the "best match he saw in 30 years." Usual promotional b.s., blah, blah, blah.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Take a look at Naoya Ogawa's STO, it looks like shit, but its put Hashimoto on dream street god knows how many times. Taue's Nodowa looks way more brutal than that.