Some Shoot Style Talk

[Guest Tim Cooke]

I just finished watching Takada v Yamazaki from 12/5/84 in perfect quality (unlike my previous version which looked like crap).

 

This match would be what I point to as the basic structure for the "UWF" style. The first ten minutes are worked back and forth with slick mat work. It isn't exactly Tamura and Han going a zillion miles an hour on the mat but it is just as intricate, especially considering the times.

 

Takada's main focus is trying to the cross armbreaker while Yamazaki basically does his best to counter out and try to get some advantage. Everything is very well executed, from the mat work to the kicks.

 

With no point structure in place, rope breaks aren't looked down upon but they still get a good crowd reaction. Neither man allows for any knockdowns as they work more pro style and continue to kick after the knockdown until the ref breaks it up.

 

The final few minutes has a lot of teases, including two tombstone piledrivers which look out of place but don't really hurt the match in any way.

 

Takada has the match wrapped up until he accidently lets his guard down for a split second and Yamakzaki gets the pin with a German Suplex hold.

 

Awesome match. Probably the best of 1984, though I need to see more from that year of course. I would start here to see how the UWF style really evolved throughout the years.

 

Tim

[Guest Jubuki]

How much BattlARTS - or should I say, how much good BattlARTS - have you seen, and how do you think this match compares to what was often done by Ishikawa & Co.? I've been of the mind for the last year or so that, since '99-ish, BatBat wasn't "shootstyle" at all - it was just pro-wrestling with submission holds used in the place of Liger Bombs or suplex holds or what have you. From the way you describe this, there seems to be plenty of pro influence in it, which is to be expected, but I'd like to know if it's closer to a pro match with realistic holds or something closer to the science of UWF.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

I've seen the 8/29/99 BattlArts show with the much hyped Ishikawa v Ikeda II.

 

I would say the Takada v Yamazaki match from 1984 is BattlArts style. 10+ years before the company came into exsistance. It does have many Pro Wrestling aspects with the Tombstones and they do go for pins twince before the finish.

 

Don't know if that helps since BattlArts has never been a favorite of mine.

 

Tim

[Guest wolverine]

The only Battlarts experience I have is with some Minoru Tanaka stuff from 1999-2000, and I pretty much hated it all (except for a match he had against Ikuto Hidaka, which was pretty entertaining).

[Guest Jubuki]

OK............

 

In terms of the workers of that kind of match, I think the overall list would look something like...

 

Ikeda

Ishikawa

Sano

*gap*

Otsuka until late 99

*gap*

Hidaka

Malenko when he wanted to go

Nagai when he wanted to go

*gap*

Tanaka

Usuda when he wanted to go

*gap*

Ono

Yone

Otsuka these days

*gap*

everybody else

 

However, the '99 Ikeda/Ishikawa isn't at all their best match. The one they had the preceding May (on the B-Files tape) is vastly better. The mat sequences of the '99 match tend to ramble all around, but they don't fall into that so much in '98, keeping the match about 5 minutes shorter and using striking much more effectively. They also had a match in 4/97, but I haven't bothered picking that one up yet. The strange thing about a lot of these guys is that, once in a while, you'd get one hot worker who'd carry 2 or 3 guys in a row to good matches you didn't think possible - Sano was probably the best example of that at the end of 99 before dropping the Indy Jr. Title to Tanaka. There's a pretty good Ishikawa/Nagai match from the middle of '00 as well that was pretty surprising. There's at least one good comp's worth of solid BatBat material to be had, and it'd be interesting to watch that next to the Takada/Yamazaki match.

[Guest wolverine]

Did you ever see the Tanaka/Fukawa vs. Otsuka/Yoshida match? This was from 6/7/00. The idea of Yoshida working with Tanaka is somewhat intriguing, as I think that would be the only way I'd get into one of his matches.

[Guest Jubuki]

It sucked. I reviewed it a good bit earlier in the year (7/19 air date). Whole tournament sounded a whole lot better than it actually was.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

I'll need to track down the Bat-Bat after I get through the RINGS stuff which is rocking my world more than anything right now. Tamura, Han, Kohsaka, Yamamoto...all gods of wrestling in my eyes.

 

Tim

[Guest J*ingus]

Just curious, has anyone here seen any of Bob Backlund's shootstyle work in the various Japanese feds in the 90's? As a fan of his older stuff, I wonder how he still holds up in modern day.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Jubuki has a review of the 12/22/88 Takada/Backlund match that is rather well-known, and from all acounts, deffinately worth a look if you're a fan of his work. Personally, I've never heard anything about his work in Japan post '89, barring his short run in NJ's 30th aniversery tour last year where he and a bunch of other ghosts of NJ Gaijin past worked tours. Maybe some of the others can help you out.

[Guest permagrinning]

I just saw a UWF tape from 89, I believe it was from around august. I found the tape to be fun, much differnt than anything I've watched before. Any idea how this stands?

 

(and yes, before I get my rear crisped with a scaithing comment I'll try and track down the exact date. Seemed like some major event, that's all I know.)

[Guest Tim Cooke]

If it is 1989, it could be a variety of shows. They held the big Tokyo Dome show in December of 89 which was UWF Wrestlers v Legit Shooters which equaled bad matches.

 

Get as much UWF as you can, it is a great introduction. Then build through UWF-I, then to RINGS. Once you get to RINGS best stuff, you will never be the same.

 

Tim

[Guest permagrinning]

what was the genesis of UWF? Is it the league Sayaman (sp?) had started after his run with NJ?

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Samaya, Maeda, Takada all started UWF I in 1984. It fell apart in late 1985. Maeda restarted it in May of 88 after the shoot kick on Choshu. UWF II died in 1990.

[Guest permagrinning]

so it wasn't even the original, interesting. I still can't find the dang reviews so I know which show it was. I do remember they had Rusher Kanemura (sp?).... old old man, in the main event.

[Guest Jubuki]

Kimura was with All Japan full-time by then. You're thinking of Yoshiaki Fujiwara, who was as good as anyone at UWF-style until the end of the decade.

[Guest permagrinning]

UWF Midsummer Creation in Yokohama 8/13/89

 

that was the show (pats self on back for being dork enough to find it. Thanks for the page chris)