Raven's Masterpiece

[Guest Goodear]

Saturn for a short time was a part of it too, if you forgot.

Didn't they make a point to say Saturn was never in The Flock when Raven/Saturn faced Dean/Benoit & Rey/Kidman?

[ChrisMWaters 0]

That's revisionist history right there.

 

Raven brought Saturn into WCW...and Saturn won a WCW Title Belt from Disco Inferno.

[Guest Goodear]

Fair enough.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

"Ok, everyone, stop wishing for the Flock to come back. This guy thinks they sucked."

 

No that's not it. I want to know why everyone complains about crappy reduxes in wrestling like the WWE redoing nWo and DX v.2(when H was champ) yet they call for the Flock to return incessantly. And this would be the 3rd incarnation of this paticular group. And in the first place the original nWo and the original DX(from HHH/HBK to the 4 member group) were much better groups and angles than The Flock. So if you complain about those being brought back then why would you call for the Flock to be brought back?

[Guest Smark Hammill]

I don't know why everyone's such a huge fan of raven. The guy's had three good matches EVER that I can remember, and two involved Benoit, one of which was a tag match. The other was with Pillman back when both men were young and athletic. He's easily one of the most overrated wrestlers on the net. The guy just isn't that good of a worker. He's a sloppy bumper, he can't carry anyone, and he's getting old.

Totally agree. Someone needs to mention Raven in the "Most overrated worker" thread.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

What's wrong with being ex-ECW or Heat fodder? Those are the kinds of guys the Flock's always had. Here's some candidates: O'Haire (definite), Richards (definite), Jindrak, Spike Dudley (I'd like to see a heel turn), Credible, Kanyon, Saturn, Bill DeMott, Rhyno (I doubt it, though), Victoria, Stamboli, Howard Finkel (it would rule), OVW callups (Seven, Malice). And maybe even that NWA-TNA guy he beat and Mark Jindraks archenemy Mike Owens!

I have no problem with ex-ECW and HeAT fodder, it just insures that the group would never get involved in any serious storylines, important victories or air time.

 

And I don't like Raven as a worker, I'll readily admit that often his matches are rather ordinary. I love him for his character, which is easily the most complexed and developed in the WWE right now, and if that weren't the only thing I know I'd argue in all of North American wrestling.

[Guest Ravenbomb]

I didn't complain that they re-did the nWo or D-X until it started to suck

[Guest subliminal_animal]

Sick Boy - Springboard Sucked

Oh TAG~!

I've been meaning to ask...what does that mean?

 

"Ok, everyone, stop wishing for the Flock to come back. This guy thinks they sucked."

 

No that's not it. I want to know why everyone complains about crappy reduxes in wrestling like the WWE redoing nWo and DX v.2(when H was champ) yet they call for the Flock to return incessantly. And this would be the 3rd incarnation of this paticular group. And in the first place the original nWo and the original DX(from HHH/HBK to the 4 member group) were much better groups and angles than The Flock. So if you complain about those being brought back then why would you call for the Flock to be brought back?

The nWo and DX were done to death and until no one cared anymore. I'm not that sure on ECW, but the Flock wasn't together for 90 years. Plus people seem to like Raven and the stable represents an important aspect of his character.

 

There ya go.

[Guest El Satanico]

At least the WWE can still do good angles when they need to.

They need one now...so where's this good angle that they are capable of producing?

 

 

 

Raven never produced matches that were amazing technical masterpieces, but i still enjoyed alot of his matches. I enjoyed many of his matches, liked his character and he has good mic skills.

 

However Raven will never get a good push and his once great character is now an out dated shell of its former self. As much as i'd enjoy a new Flock, I still believe the best thing Raven could do is become an announcer and help out backstage doing what he's good at.

[Guest notJames]

Sick Boy - Springboard Sucked

Oh TAG~!

I've been meaning to ask...what does that mean?

Basically, it emanated from a backstage RAW skit, where Matt Hardy zinged somebody (Chris Jericho I think), and Lita's response was "Oh tag!" It works along the same lines as "Aw, snap!", "Dag!" or "Damn, he told you!"

 

I'm not sure about its origin, but it was such a lame rejoinder that many in the IWC snatched it up for their own nefarious doings.

 

You can count me as one of them.

[Guest subliminal_animal]

Since I've always gathered most people think Raven kind of sucks in the ring, I'd say he's underrated. His problem seems to be he can work when we wants to, but he needs to always be motivated or he'll just phone it in. And even though he can work, he's no Jewish Thunder Driver, so his phone TENDS TO HAVE A BAD CONNECTION.

 

Yes, I am lame.

[Guest Army Eye]

Another Flock? Feh. It began and ended with Stevie Richards. Anything after the ECW incarnation is just re-tread revisionist nostalgia that will appeal to .000001% of the fanbase. What kind of an impact are a bunch of Heat lowcarders gonna have on the Triple H show? Oooh, they ran in on a Spike Dudley match. Oooh, there goes Justin Credible crotch-chopping a half-empty arena. Oooh, Mark Jindrak's blown up after a minute and a half, but he's wearing a Raven shirt, so that makes it all better.

Shrug. Look what being in the Flock did for Kidman in WCW. He went from heatless to a way over babyface when he finally turned on them. Sick Boy, Riggs, Horace, etc. were totally dead weight though.

[Guest B-X]

Another Flock? Feh. It began and ended with Stevie Richards. Anything after the ECW incarnation is just re-tread revisionist nostalgia that will appeal to .000001% of the fanbase. What kind of an impact are a bunch of Heat lowcarders gonna have on the Triple H show? Oooh, they ran in on a Spike Dudley match. Oooh, there goes Justin Credible crotch-chopping a half-empty arena. Oooh, Mark Jindrak's blown up after a minute and a half, but he's wearing a Raven shirt, so that makes it all better.

While I like the idea of a Flock reunion, I gotta say one thing. Damn notjames, that's some funny shit.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Another Flock? Feh. It began and ended with Stevie Richards. Anything after the ECW incarnation is just re-tread revisionist nostalgia that will appeal to .000001% of the fanbase. What kind of an impact are a bunch of Heat lowcarders gonna have on the Triple H show? Oooh, they ran in on a Spike Dudley match. Oooh, there goes Justin Credible crotch-chopping a half-empty arena. Oooh, Mark Jindrak's blown up after a minute and a half, but he's wearing a Raven shirt, so that makes it all better.

Shrug. Look what being in the Flock did for Kidman in WCW. He went from heatless to a way over babyface when he finally turned on them. Sick Boy, Riggs, Horace, etc. were totally dead weight though.

Saturn was amazingly over when he ended the flock...then they put him in a dress.

[Guest What?]

I personally would love to see a Flock reunion, but Raven shouldn't wrestle anymore. Maybe one or wo matches, but I think his manipulator character would work best as the non-wrestling leader. Here's who I think they need (feel free to disagree. Hell, I know most of you will...jerks):

 

Raven: duh

Stevie Richards: reprising his role as lackey. Wrestles Raven's matches for him.

Bubba-Ray Dudley: the enforcer-ish type that protects Raven from attackers

Spike Dudley: the Tweener that's following his older brother. Eventually turns on the troupe

Kane: after the Katie Vick fiasco, Kane starts to feel depressed and angered towards the world. He turns on Hurricane and joins Raven, who, using his manipulation skills, shows Kane "the light" and makes him the dominant "killer" of the group.

Rhyno: Raven's right-hand man. Rhyno attacks opponents of the flock and, when the time comes, teams with Raven against their main antagonists.