Republicans have control

[Guest Some Guy]

We are compassionate human beings who provide care to those who can not afford it, so that every human being leads a decent life, that is left wing ideology.

We on the Right are compassionate human beings who don't want there to be any people who need care that can't afford it. We want people to be self-reliant and free from governmental control, not a bunch of mindless wards of the state who put their hand out and beg big brother for free money. Being truly compassionate is helping these people stop leaching off the system and actually becoming part of it. Keeping people on welfare does nothing but promote more welfare, we've raised a welfare generation who don't know how to work and who don't know how to go to school because their parents never did and we never provided a need for to. Why go to schiool when the gov't will give you a home, pay all your bills, buy all your food, etc...? What's the point? Especially when those who advocate such programs tell the people that there is no shame in it. People on welfare who are not so fucked up that they can't take care of themselves SHOULD be ashamed of it and they should do anything they LEGALLY can to get the fuck off of it and if the gov't has to cut them off then so be it. It's tough love but in the end it's compassion, you've released the person from governmental control and allowed them to be free.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Cabbageboy makes me ashamed to consider myself Liberal...

 

Kotzenjunge

Tries To Be An Intelligent Liberal

[Guest Some Guy]

Well try harder. j/k

[Guest NoCalMike]

If a citizen pays income taxes from the day he starts working, and 5 years later he is laid off of work, what is wrong with asking "big brother" to help out for a a few weeks or a month while he looks for another job? Why is it even considered asking "big brother" when we the people pay the taxes in the first place. Shouldn't the money be there for us, if we absolutely as a last resort need it?

[Guest DrTom]

Shouldn't the money be there for us, if we absolutely as a last resort need it?

As a last resort, sure. But what SG was talking about are people who remain on welfare (not unemployment) for years, and breed a generation of equally worthless kids who leech off the system, too. I know welfare reform was designed to stop this, about thirty years too late. I have no problem with welfare for the disabled, but anyone who's able to go out and work should be encouraged to do so, not encouraged to stay at home and wait for the government to win the bread.

[Guest Syxx]

NoCalMike-dont even pay attention to the dribble coming out of these conservatives mouths, they are coming from PRIVILEGED position...guaranteed. I will ASSUME they are white upper-middle class citizens who never spent a day in poverty in their life. They can talk all they want about those leeching off the system, but any qualitative or quantitative study I have ever read insures that any two parent family or single parent family WANTS to be out there working, and that many two parent families return to the system with in six months, but single parent families cant rebound because of lack of a support system and resources. And dont give me this shit about compassion because I am from a single parent family who thankfully never had to resort to social assistance, but that is just because my mom was educated and could survive out there, and even still we could barely maintain our lower middle class position. So in essence if u are born into poverty, have a kid, father leaves, u are fucked no matter what your wishes are. So maybe we should look at increasing minimum wage to provide the incentive to work, so that u can actually make more money working then receiving social assistance for those who have no education like most in poverty, remember put yourself in those persons shoes, and dont speak from your privileged highhorse, oh and please dont retort with that "this is America, you can make it if you try b.s, that points to oprah saying every black woman can be powerful and influential if they put their mind to it, and there are no systemic barriers". Its time to fucking clean this board up, and I havent even gotten to the HHH conspiracy theorists yet.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

If a citizen pays income taxes from the day he starts working, and 5 years later he is laid off of work, what is wrong with asking "big brother" to help out for a a few weeks or a month while he looks for another job? Why is it even considered asking "big brother" when we the people pay the taxes in the first place.  Shouldn't the money be there for us, if we absolutely as a last resort need it?

I agree with this and every other fellow conservative should as well. If we are to have the highest standard of living, we must maintain our high standards of living. We can't have people shooting up and down the economic classes overnight. There are bills, credit card, and house payments to be paid. The government most definitely should be giving back money it stole from the hard working people that fuel our economy, so that they can continue to opperate at the level they attained.

 

Extend unemployment benefits and cut taxes until the economy gets back in business!

[Guest EricMM]

So in essence if u are born into poverty, have a kid, father leaves, u are fucked no matter what your wishes are.

 

Sorry, but um, don't have kids... Unless you can afford them.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"NoCalMike-dont even pay attention to the dribble coming out of these conservatives mouths, they are coming from PRIVILEGED position...guaranteed. I will ASSUME they are white upper-middle class citizens who never spent a day in poverty in their life."

 

Yep. That's me. My mom and dad divoriced when I was little, and boy oh boy have I been living in the lap of luxury ever since.

 

Mom: Moderate Republican. Spent 1/2 the day working for a major hospital system. Spent 1/2 the night going to school to get her degree. Waking up at 4 a.m. and not getting home until 10 p.m. some nights, I can only assume she was at those white upper-middle class citizen dinner parties (After all, she had voted for Reagan AND both Bushes). Of course when she got laid off due to her age she had to start all over again.

 

My Dad: Union Democrat (voted for Mondale in '84). After getting laid off by Heinz in the early '80s, he worked at one time 3 jobs just to make his child support payments. Hell, he even lived out of his car for a brief time. When he finally did get a manufacturing job, he would work at least 10 hours of overtime each week to save up for a house. That was until he got exposed to a hazardous chemical and has been sick ever since.

 

Me: Registered Republican. I've always worked at least one full-time job while in high school and college (I'm not whining about this since I knew people who worked more than me). One point I was working 40 hours at one job, 15 hours at another and 15 at another and still made my school's Dean's List. After college, I busted my ass at two jobs for a few years where I worked everyday/60+ hours a week. Currently I have my first "regular" 9-5 job.

 

Don't ever ASSUME, because you know what happens when you do...

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I agree with this and every other fellow conservative should as well. If we are to have the highest standard of living, we must maintain our high standards of living. We can't have people shooting up and down the economic classes overnight. There are bills, credit card, and house payments to be paid. The government most definitely should be giving back money it stole from the hard working people that fuel our economy, so that they can continue to opperate at the level they attained.

 

Extend unemployment benefits and cut taxes until the economy gets back in business!

You could of just said the gov't should cut taxes more.

 

Why is it such a bad thing in the eyes of a liberal to be rich?

[Guest Olympic Slam]

Why is it such a bad thing in the eyes of a liberal to be rich?

Because liberalism is a mental disorder. They can't stand the fact that some people can attain more than others. It's jealousy of the highest order. That's why liberals ALWAYS take the side of the victim, even if it contradicts their core beliefs. It is wrong to achieve more than others.

 

What liberals don't seem to get is that the poor or lower class people in the U.S have a life FAR better than just about ANY middle class person in 95% of the countries in the world. Running water? Electricity? A car? Choice of food that is readily available? All these things are available to almost even the poorest of working Americans.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

That's going a bit far, saying liberalism is a mental disorder. I could call conservatism a disorder as well, pointing to the sometimes hampering moral convictions, hard-ass nature of their majority, and sometime bigotry, but I won't do that.

 

And I understand that the people in poverty here could be veritable kings in Third World nations. Being wealthy is not a bad thing, if it were, then it wouldn't be such a coveted position in life. It is when the wealthy are receiving special treatment or lack of punishment due to their status that feathers get ruffled.

 

I don't think it's bad to be rich, but I also don't believe that because someone is wealthy that they should be held to a different standard than your average or even impoverished American.

 

Kotzenjunge

Apparently Has A Mental Disorder

[Guest Syxx]

EricMM-this isnt about having kids and not having kids, all human beings should have the right to enjoy that pleasure. Dont start blaming the victim here, because most single mothers never encourage the father to walk away, they do it on their own damn accord, so the one thing I will agree with conservatives on is pushing the idea of family more, so that guys begin to take more damn responsibility for their actions, but dont have kids unless you can afford them is unrepresentative of the situation, like me saying rich people shouldnt have kids because they often let their moneyand what it buys, raise them instead of themselves, it doesnt apply to all of them.

 

Olympic Slam- Poor with a car, sorry not in Canada, maybe its different in the States, but when I think poor, I look at all of the homeless on Yonge street, and they aint driving anything except a shopping basket.

 

And why is it jealousy to believe in a more fair society. Liberals have the same education and the same income as conservatives, they are just more willing to part with their income to help their fellow man who has not had the same privileges as them. If anything u should be jealous of us for actually giving a damn, but the fact is that lots (not all) conservatives dont give a damn about anything other than fattening their bank account and stomachs, at the expense of others.

[Guest Mad Dog]

Syxx,

 

I am a conservative.

 

You know what? I had about $30 a week last year to try and buy food and pay for gas. You know how hard it is to provide yourself 21 meals on what turns into not even $20? You ever been in a position where you worked extra hours for someone just so they would give you a free meal. Or did you ever honestly try and figure out how many times a week you could sell your blood just to get your income to a point where you weren't constantly worrying about what you were going to do next.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

And why is it jealousy to believe in a more fair society. Liberals have the same education and the same income as conservatives, they are just more willing to part with their income to help their fellow man who has not had the same privileges as them. If anything u should be jealous of us for actually giving a damn, but the fact is that lots (not all) conservatives dont give a damn about anything other than fattening their bank account and stomachs, at the expense of others.

This is classic liberalism and it shows its most fatal of flaws. Just because YOU want to give up some of your money doesn't mean other people want to give up THEIR hard earned money to the so called "more deserving." Just because YOU think that by legislating economic equality that you somehow "care more." What a pile of self-righteous rubbish. Who says I don't care about the poor? Just because I think socialist policies are inferior and counter-productive doesn't mean I don't care! Just because I don't want to steal money from the rich and give it to people who lack the skills necessary to further themselves in society means I don't give a damn? Ah, liberals, always so quick to spend your money in the name of self-serving compassion. If you want to help people out, than do it yourself however you choose. That's what I do. I don't need a dopey gov't program and other people's money to make me feel charitable.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Hey hey hey, that's HIM, not US. Sheesh. Call him out on that stuff, not ALL liberals.

 

Kotzenjunge

Doesn't Want to be Associated With These People

[Guest bob_barron]

I agree with Kotz- generalising is not a good thing

[Guest teke184]

Landrieu (La.)

 

Notice the names that just missed being booted from the Senate/facing a tough run-off election: Johnson, Landrieu.

 

These politicians represent states that supported Bush's tax cut. There's a reason the didn't go against it. If they had, their defeats would have been more resounding. (Good thing the Democrats stole the Torch's Senate spot away or else they'd have even fewer seats in that chamber.)

Mary Landrieu is probably going to get bounced from the Senate. She only got elected 6 years ago because her opponent, Woody Jenkins, is about a step down from David Duke... and he STILL almost beat her despite allegations of her buying votes (which were dismissed by the courts).

 

That 44% or so she got on Tuesday are the diehard Democrats... nearly all of the other 56% will vote for Susanne Terrell just to get Landrieu out of office (they want a Republican and having Landrieu be on the fence between the Republicans and the Democrats isn't really pleasing either side).

[Guest NoCalMike]

Who ever said being rich was bad?? Oh and the government usually has absolutely ZERO problems bailing out billion-dollar corportations with loans and extra cash when they go and fuck up their own company, yet when it comes to the poor man who needs some assitence because he was laid off, suddenly it is just his own laziness that put him in the situation......BULLSHIT

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"Liberals have the same education and the same income as conservatives, they are just more willing to part with their income to help their fellow man who has not had the same privileges as them."

 

No, they are more willing to have you part with your income...

 

"Who ever said being rich was bad?? Oh and the government usually has absolutely ZERO problems bailing out billion-dollar corportations with loans and extra cash when they go and fuck up their own company, yet when it comes to the poor man who needs some assitence because he was laid off, suddenly it is just his own laziness that put him in the situation......BULLSHIT"

 

I always have found it amazing how when a corporation gets a sweet deal by the gvt., it's called "development" and not welfare or a handout...

[Guest DrTom]

NoCalMike-dont even pay attention to the dribble coming out of these conservatives mouths, they are coming from PRIVILEGED position...guaranteed.

 

Leave the guarantees to Joe Namath, bub. My parents divorced when I was 2, I was raised by a single mother, and I started working at age 12 (I had a paper route). I have ZERO sympathy for people who are too lazy to put the entitlement check away and get a job. I had one when I was TWELVE. Why can't a thirty year-old who finished high school get out and find one? In case you're curious, I've leaned to the right ever since I was in high school. If anything, I'm more moderate now that I'm several years removed from college than I was when I was there, and I promise I wasn't living as well back then.

 

I will ASSUME...

 

You know the risks.

 

... any qualitative or quantitative study I have ever read insures that any two parent family or single parent family WANTS to be out there working...

 

There are jobs out there. If they want to work so badly, they can find one.

 

So in essence if u are born into poverty, have a kid, father leaves, u are fucked no matter what your wishes are.

 

Please explain that to Justice Clarence Thomas.

 

Btw, it's "you," with three letters.

 

So maybe we should look at increasing minimum wage to provide the incentive to work...

 

Read some more of those studies you were talking about. Raising the minimum wage puts the poor and minorities out of work before anyone else. Mom-and-pop stores suddenly have to go from 40 employees to 35, and the people on the low end of the food chain are the ones who get the axe.

 

remember put yourself in those persons shoes, and dont speak from your privileged highhorse

 

Don't talk about high horses after spewing sanctimonious tripe like that. If I were in the position that I were out of work (and I have been), I'd find a job. I've never once collected unemployment, mainly because I always found ways to get paid while I was still on the job hunt (being a computer geek pays off sometimes). Everyone has a skill, and if people learned to market and use their skills better, maybe we'd stop having generations of people on some form of welfare.

 

oh and please dont retort with that "this is America, you can make it if you try

 

This country is full of Horatio Alger stories.

 

Its time to fucking clean this board up, and I havent even gotten to the HHH conspiracy theorists yet.

 

What the hell does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Ahh, but you forget Tom, you and I have White Man's Privilege (at least I'm pretty sure you do).

 

Funny thing is that in my many dead-end jobs, where I have known people nowhere near the top income tax bracket, most of these people voted Republican. Hmmm, maybe they were trust-fund babies trying to see how the "other half lived"...

[Guest EricMM]

EricMM-this isnt about having kids and not having kids, all human beings should have the right to enjoy that pleasure. Dont start blaming the victim here, because most single mothers never encourage the father to walk away, they do it on their own damn accord, so the one thing I will agree with conservatives on is pushing the idea of family more, so that guys begin to take more damn responsibility for their actions, but dont have kids unless you can afford them is unrepresentative of the situation, like me saying rich people shouldnt have kids because they often let their moneyand what it buys, raise them instead of themselves, it doesnt apply to all of them.

 

Please. Everyone has the "right" to reproduce as much as they want. That's one of the simple facts of life. However, who are you calling the victim here? Having a baby when you're not prepared is one of the most irresponsable things one can do. It limits your time, money, and future. If you're not ready to have kids use protection or don't fuck.

 

But as you said, it's everyones right to reproduce. But while it's very sad and terrible that single mothers exist, it's not the governments fault, it's not America's responsability. As I said in my original post, people who have children whom they cannot afford at least partially brought the situation upon themselves.

 

If the parents are married, in a stable relationship, and the father dips after concieving a child, that is one thing, but a LOT of single mothers come from different situations.

 

Christ, all I'm trying to say is that life would be a lot easier for almost everyone if people were a TAD more careful with whom and how they screwed around. Tell me I'm blaming the victim, but putting government dollars into single mothers is a shame, considering it shouldn't happen.

[Guest BaldFish]

This country is full of Horatio Alger stories.

I had a friend in college who became a millionaire by performing oral sex on key executives in companies in order to gain career advantages.

 

It was a real Fellatio Alger story.

[Guest Syxx]

EricMM-Good points and I too believe people should be more careful but the fact is sometimes people arent too selective in the screening proces, and fathers walk off, im not asking for single mothers to be given a 50,000 dollar annual income, im asking for more subsidized daycare, and subsidized transit, just to make things a lot easier, is that so damn bad.

 

Olympic Slam- good post as well, but I once again am not saying take money from all conservatives and all middle class, I am just saying that those who are well off, and disgustingly well off would go a long way in helping the world off by giving more of their income that they dont need, its GREED plain and simple, which once again goes against Christian teachings, people who have 18 million sitting in their bank account could fork over some of that in taxes, and wipe out a whole ghetto if they chose too, greed should not be what life is about plain and simple.

 

kkk-are u telling me white man's privilege doesn't exist? (im white btw)

 

DrTom-first of all U cant tell me what to write, and I wont conform to what U want me to do. So stuff your "I can do it why cant others shit back in your mouth". Fact is in your post you ASSUMED thinking that people are too "lazy" to put the entitlement away, well just because U got a job when U were 12 does not mean that others from different ethnic, and educational BACKGROUNDS can.

 

I should just say that everyone on this board should be like me. They should go to University, then go to Graduate school, then go out and get a job that pays them 60,000. Fact is not everyone had the same privilege as me and not everyone was given the same breaks because of superficial reasons as myself, so I will not ASSUME that everyone can go out and do what SYXX has done. Oh and remember that little rule we talked about...Justice Clarence Thomas is one of 1000 kids born into those circumstances that made it, and there are very good systemic reasons why the other 999 did not.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

NoCalMike-dont even pay attention to the dribble coming out of these conservatives mouths, they are coming from PRIVILEGED position...guaranteed.>>>

 

 

Lower middle-class insurance processor.

 

But, when compared to, say, you---I guess I do look pretty darned good.

 

 

<<<I will ASSUME they are white upper-middle class citizens who never spent a day in poverty in their life.>>>

 

 

Feel free. I will assume you're an idiot without an original thought in your head.

 

And, unlike you, I have some evidence to work with here.

 

 

<<<They can talk all they want about those leeching off the system, but any qualitative or quantitative study I have ever read insures that any two parent family or single parent family WANTS to be out there working, and that many two parent families return to the system with in six months, but single parent families cant rebound because of lack of a support system and resources.>>>

 

 

So, because I am responsible and don't father children out of wedlock all willy-nilly and actually manage to avoid a drug habit---I should financially support some schlub who can't do the same?

 

Um, I think not.

 

 

<<<And dont give me this shit about compassion because I am from a single parent family who thankfully never had to resort to social assistance, but that is just because my mom was educated and could survive out there, and even still we could barely maintain our lower middle class position. So in essence if u are born into poverty, have a kid, father leaves, u are fucked no matter what your wishes are. So maybe we should look at increasing minimum wage to provide the incentive to work>>>

 

 

Because, God knows, if you increase minimum wage, the cost of living wouldn't POSSIBLY go up too, huh?

 

Heck, why not a $1M/year minimum wage? Sounds fair, doesn't it?

 

 

<<<, so that u can actually make more money working then receiving social assistance for those who have no education like most in poverty>>>

 

 

And, just checking, whose fault is it that they have no education?

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Approval ratings don't mean all that much because right now there is no other choice. In 2004 there will be another choice besides Bush and his ratings will go down faster than WCW in 1999.>>>

 

 

Except that the Dems will go HARD left now (Pelosi as Minority Leader?) and they will simply turn themselves into jokes. Whomever runs in 2004 will have to work hard to match MONDALE'S success in 1984.

 

 

<<<His dad had approval ratings arond 90% during the Gulf War, but gee that sure as hell changed in a hurry once people realized how botched Desert Storm was and how bad the economy had gotten. >>>

 

 

Yet, ironically, the economy was actually good in 1992.

 

 

<<<And yes, he's been a lame duck to me ever since he won the way he did. >>>

 

 

You mean fairly and legally?

 

 

<<<I dunno, I almost think that the Demos need some really new and fresh blood. Not Hillary, voters will dump on a woman candidate and she has the Clinton stigma.>>>

 

 

Voters don't dump on female candidates. They dump on INEPT candidates and Hillary fits THAT bill to a tee.

 

 

<<<Gore is of course damaged goods as well due to 2000, but he would certainly have a chance. >>>

 

 

Except that Gore doesn't really have any ideas and Bush actually has charisma.

 

 

<<<They have to think outside the box, but not think stupid. Running Hillary is stupid, putting Lieberman in as VP and expecting to win anti semetic southern states is stupid. >>>

 

 

Ah, and people wonder why liberals do so poorly in this country. Thank God the left is open-minded.

 

 

<<What they need is a charming Clinton type southerner who has high morals and can keep his dick in his pants. That's the key I think. Gore lost every state in the south even his home state of Tennessee. I should think that is due to him being a decidedly non southern and bland sort, and also having a Jew as his running mate.>>>

 

 

No, it's because Gore wasn't a Southerner (he lived in Washington all of his life) and him having the charisma of peeling linoleum.

 

 

<<<Seriously, if the Democrats can't beat Bush in 2004 after not catching Bin Laden>>>

 

 

Well, it didn't seem to hurt Clinton to just leave bin Laden alone...

 

 

<<<, wrecking the economy>>>

 

 

You mean the same stock market that was plunging throughout 2000?

 

 

<<<, and getting us into a war with Iraq due to his family grudges.>>>

 

 

Hmm, we even have the infamously weak French on our side.

 

 

<<<....well, the Demos might as well pack it in and go home. They'd be screwed. >>>

 

 

Well, they're screwed.

 

That much is obvious.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Wars generally help the economy

 

In the short term, they often provide stimulus, but in the long term they're detrimental to the economy. At least that's the conventional wisdom anyway. >>>

 

 

WWII pulled the US out of the Great Depression.

 

The conventional wisdom can jump out of a window.

-=Mike

[Guest J*ingus]

MIKE!

 

::marks out, tears quad::

 

Where've you been, man?

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Mike, welcome back -- Long time no hear!!! (Hmmm, Marney leaves, Mike returns -- possible alter egos?)

 

"kkk-are u telling me white man's privilege doesn't exist? (im white btw)"

 

I'm sure it does -- my problem is that I've never experienced it!

 

Cops pulling me over? Never happen. Not because I'm white -- because I drive under the speed limit in the right-hand lane.

 

Having trouble getting a loan? Never happen. My credit is good and I pay my bills on time.

 

Get sent to jail? Not likely, since I OBEY THE LAW!!!

 

Have crack sweep through my neighborhood? Nope, I don't live in the city.

 

If I have to suffer feeling bad about repressing the world, I want the benefits of being a white male damnit!

 

"I should just say that everyone on this board should be like me. They should go to University, then go to Graduate school, then go out and get a job that pays them 60,000."

 

Oh hell no, I was tainted enough by being a cog in the academia machine just to get my BA. I'd NEVER go back to this slime pit that is the higher education system.

 

"just because U got a job when U were 12 does not mean that others from different ethnic, and educational BACKGROUNDS can."

 

Why? Does Big Media discriminate as to who can deliver their newspapers?