Republicans have control

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Damn MikeinSC, your a breath of fresh air in the forum. Keep up the good work.

 

--Rob

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

We base this upon...what?

 

When has competition made things WORSE?

 

Quite frankly, I have no faith in anything run by unions IMPROVING whatsoever.

 

Competition, in this case, wouldn't make a damn difference. Schools wouldn't be competing for students because frankly, since you'd be taking money out of public education and throwing it to the Private schools, you'd be digging an even deeper ditch for the public schools to come out of... and frankly, they need all the help they can get already.

 

Except that private schools can say "no" and toss out thugs and miscreants.

 

...and all non-Catholics, or non-Protestants, or non-Jewish, or black, or Asian...

 

At this point, a band-aid is needed.

 

Not this one. It's not as if there will be tons and tons of new private schools created, OVERCROWDING WILL STILL OCCUR. Either that, or we're gonna go straight back to utter segregation with a few, choicy white students granted admission to private schools and the minorities still stuck in inner city schools.

 

You may blow that off as impossible, but on the contrary, it's VERY possible with vouchers.

 

And you don't think that they'll fudge the scores a little?

 

Absolutely not. The tests are administered by the state, who is looking to judge its own education. The schools do not grade these tests, the state department of education, or ultimately the federal government, grade them. That's utterly stupid if you were implying the states will do that, though.

 

The federal gov't doesn't do much of anything well. Why trust them with education?

 

Cool, if they don't do anything right, let's just get rid of them and let business run everything. (End sarcasm)

[Guest Olympic Slam]

By the by, I'm curious, since increasing spending on public education would be just a band-aid, then what IS the solution?

The real problem with schools is in the approach it takes at teaching kids. We need to get away from standardized tests, expensive equipment and such and take schooling to its most basic core. That is, teaching kids the basics and making everything into a life lesson. Teach them problem solving skills, critical thinking, responsiblity, and things they can actually use in the real world. Base all of those teachings into subjects like science, history, reading, and math. After all, the point of schooling originally was not teach people random facts, but to teach worthwhile skills through those topics.

 

Another thing that needs to be done is to make kids actually want to go and be at school. How that would be accomplished is a mystery to me but getting kids to have a positive attitude towards learning, school, work, test ect is the first step towards them succeding.

[Guest DrTom]

By the by, I'm curious, since increasing spending on public education would be just a band-aid, then what IS the solution?

The solution is deep and far-reaching, and would take a lot of time, a lot of effort, and a lot of perseverance to work. And keep in mind that I'm in no way affiliated with any educational facility, so I might not have the best perspective on this.

 

First, you need to do away with the DOE as it currently exists. There's way too much bullshit and red tape already extant to make changes and hope for the best. Slash and burn it, create a new entity (call it something different, like the Federal Education Bureau) with a viable internal structure and clear guidelines. Bureacracy CAN be reduced, but you sometimes have to start from scratch to make it work.

 

Everything else basically requires the federal government to get fairly heavily involved in public education. As Mike points out, it's not a defined power. but they stopped limiting themselves to defined powers long ago. (The 10th Amendment still exists, believe it or not.) I don't like the hand of the government getting involved in everything, but it's necessary at least at the beginning.

 

Force states to go on some kind of accountability program. Make the goals progressive, so you're not starting out at 75%, but working your way up to it. Encourage them to make staffing changes as needed. Most importantly, tie federal money for the construction of new schools directly to the results of the accountability program. If states are serious about reducing class size and improving education, here's their chance to really show it.

 

There also needs to be fundamental change in the way we educate. No more passing a kid despite the fact that he's failing just because it's easier. No more eliminating grades just because of alleged damage to a kid's self-esteem: they're in school to LEARN, and a poor grade is a sign to student and parent that there's a problem. Grading any other way is slimy and dishonest, and harms the children as a result. Remove political correctness from the classroom, and realize that all lessons will not be popular with every student. Also important: teach the right way from the start to avoid the formation of bad habits. My roommate's kid (who's here about half the time) is six. He wanted something with noodles in it the other day, and decided to spell the word: N-E-W-T-L-E-S. When I was in first grade, I fucking KNEW how to spell words like "noodle." The problem is, teachers are "teaching" kids to spell by sound, and telling them it's ok to get it wrong now, since they'll learn the right spelling later. I couldn't believe it when he told me that. That's how far education has fallen in the twenty-two years since I was that age.

 

I'd also be in favor of dissolving the teachers' unions, make them earn their tenure and pay, and hold them accountable for the results their classes earn.

[Guest EricMM]

Newtles? And a teacher didn't correct him? Maybe the kid was lying

[Guest Olympic Slam]

Newtles? And a teacher didn't correct him? Maybe the kid was lying

It's called "inventive spelling." My dad teaches elemetary school and has kids use inventive spelling when they write their stories and papers. He figures it's more important for kids to write down their thoughts clearly rather than have them waste time looking up every single little word they may have trouble with throughout their writing. The spelling will come later as they boost their vocabulary, but transfering thoughts to paper in a coherent manner is what's most important.

[Guest Paranoid]

Personally I think it's great. I really don't affliate myself with any certain party. But the democrats haven't really done anything. Let someone else have a shot for awhile.

[Guest big Dante Cruz]

It's kind of funny. The Bush administration got the "No Child Left Behind" act passed, working on reform and whatnot. I haven't gotten a chance to read up on it a whole lot, but from what I understand, it's a very good thing. Except now schools that aren't meeting guidelines are complaining all over the place.

[Guest Some Guy]

Except that private schools can say "no" and toss out thugs and miscreants.

 

...and all non-Catholics, or non-Protestants, or non-Jewish, or black, or Asian...

 

At this point, a band-aid is needed.

 

Not this one. It's not as if there will be tons and tons of new private schools created, OVERCROWDING WILL STILL OCCUR. Either that, or we're gonna go straight back to utter segregation with a few, choicy white students granted admission to private schools and the minorities still stuck in inner city schools.

 

You may blow that off as impossible, but on the contrary, it's VERY possible with vouchers.

Not necesarilly true. Catholic schools do take non-Catholics, but teh y are subject to the same curiculum as everyone else, meaning they have to take religion classes and such. Which IMO is a small price to pay for a better edu than teh public system offers.

 

Overcrowding also won't exist much because most private schools won't take on more than they can handle. There's a fine line between greed and stupidity and it would be stupid to overcrowd your school.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

I went to a private school for the first nine years of my schooling, and I'll be the first to tell you that there is a waiting list longer than you can even imagine to get into it. I find it hard to believe it's much different at some of the others, so if they aren't going to admit more, then how is this going to fix the problem?

[Guest NoCalMike]

I think the problems with public school education are way overblown. Once you get out of school and look back on those years, you realize it had more to do with the students and less with the teachers. I think people tend to take a story out of some minute city in the middle of nowhere about one public school and then talk about how all public schools are horrid. I was listening to Dr. Laura one day(yah I know) and she was on a tirade about how public schools sex ed tells teens it is ok to go have all the sex you want if you wear a condom. That is the stupidest and most ignorant statement EVER made probobaly. I don't know a single former or present student ANYWHERE that has had a sex ed teacher tell them that. Plus there is no evidence out there anyway that private school students have less teenage sex. Ok I am off point. Thing is, yes there are many things fucked up about public schooling right now, but the students who WANT TO LEARN will still get a quality education, no matter if it is a private or public school, and the same can be said about a private school.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

There ARE many underfunded schools though, with subpar materials and whatnot.

 

My area wasn't one of those, though.

[Guest HecateRose]

I've been to many different schools (4 elementary, 2 middle, 3 high schools), some would be considered subpar, some would not, but I was a driven student. I had good teachers and bad teachers in every school I attended. I believe if schools tried to engage and intice students more, the results would be better. Develop reward systems, you get paid to go to work, why not reward good work in schools to. I went to one great school that had an incentive program. If you made the honor roll, you got points. You could spend these points on things like a better lunch (delivered by a local restraunt), field trips to go roller skating or bowling, a free day off pass without needing an accompanying note. The school noticed a dramatic improvement in the percentage of kids on the honor roll by the second quarter, not because the curriculum was alterred, but because the students wanted to earn the rewards. Just my opinion, but I say why not try it. What could it hurt?

[Guest Olympic Slam]

I've been to many different schools (4 elementary, 2 middle, 3 high schools), some would be considered subpar, some would not, but I was a driven student.  I had good teachers and bad teachers in every school I attended.  I believe if schools tried to engage and intice students more, the results would be better.  Develop reward systems, you get paid to go to work, why not reward good work in schools to.  I went to one great school that had an incentive program.  If you made the honor roll, you got points.  You could spend these points on things like a better lunch (delivered by a local restraunt), field trips to go roller skating or bowling, a free day off pass without needing an accompanying note.  The school noticed a dramatic improvement in the percentage of kids on the honor roll by the second quarter, not because the curriculum was alterred, but because the students wanted to earn the rewards.  Just my opinion, but I say why not try it.  What could it hurt?

Naturally the liberals would freak out about something like that as it wouldn't be "fair" or it would be "demeaning" to the dumber kids. This is the sort of stuff that should be done. Making kids care about their education is the first thing that MUST be done if there is to be any improvement. These days all kids care about is music videos and getting drunk. Not good.

[Guest EricMM]

The only thing I particularly care about in regards to a republican Congress is the fact is, they will happily let the environment go down the shitter because of their lobby.

 

Bush on global warming: "We will learn to deal with it."

[Guest NoCalMike]

These days all kids care about is music videos and getting drunk. Not good.

Ermmm, I think the same has been said about EVERY GENERATION OF TEENAGERS. Besides the video games of course. However like ALWAYS, 90% of the kids end up growing up and moving on and becoming better adults. I think it is just kind of a mixed message that the current administration is putting out talking about how important education is, yet when asked and questioned about the economy, Bush offers nothing except to talk about going to war with Iraq, so it seems that he is not concerned that right now every new graduating class beit highschool or college is going out into a job market that is barely in existence and not equipped to give out all these new jobs.