Is globalization a progressive force?

[Guest DrTom]

This will never be settled here because you believe in one thing, I believe in another and we are not going to change that by argueing over the internet.

That's not the reason. This will never be settled because you refuse to listen to opposing points of view and entertain the possibility that someone else might be right. You're like the second-grader who puts his fingers in his ears and screams, "Lalalalalala!" when someone says something he doesn't agree with, then he boasts that he's always right.

 

Here, you're clinging to a political and economic model that died ninety years ago, when the world was much simpler and much different. I'm sure it's wonderful for you to read your Pat Buchanan books (Marney was and is a conservative, btw; her dislike of Buchanan just makes her an intelligent one), burn pictures of Charles Darwin while shouting, "I got your missing link RIGHT HERE, BITCH!" and think that building walls around the country while sticking our fingers in our ears and waving our prick at the rest of the world is a viable economic model.

 

I'm just glad no one in power takes people like you seriously.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Thanks for making me look like such an ass tom, but you do not see what I see. Tuesday the 12th I saw a debate on creation vs. evoltion between Dr. Kent Hovind (Creationist) and Dr. Richard Weisenburg,

Professor of Biology at Temple University. This debate was at Temple and it seemed as though Weisenburg got smoked. My theory is you cannot prove either evolution or creation, so they are both infact religions. Our political beliefs are made up of what we live and see in our lives. It's what makes this country great and you shouldn't shit on me for having an opinion, thank you.

 

--Rob

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<This debate was at Temple and it seemed as though Weisenburg got smoked.>>>

 

Care to post some of the arguments that Dr. Kent Hovind gave to "smoke" Weisenburg? Might be fun.

[Guest EricMM]

I mean seriously, Robby, you can't prove SHIT because there ain't shit to prove.

 

please give me some sort of facts. It's ignorant for you to continue your uninformed tirade if you can't prove anything.

 

Like my Logic teacher say "That's just your opinion" or "That's what I believe" don't MEAN anything. Your beliefs are totally unproven. And just because you believe that someone got smoked doesn't mean shit, like KoRFungus said, post something RELEVANT, or stop believing lies and change your sig!

[Guest RobJohnstone]

no eric, you are wrong, evolution is unproven also. Like I said you cannot prove either evolution or creation, that's the point I was trying to make. Let me see the missing link, and then we can talk.

 

--Rob

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<Like I said you cannot prove either evolution or creation, that's the point I was trying to make.>>>

 

Except you can't make that point, you moron, because evolution can be and has been proven. The last time we had this debate, you asked for proof of evolution over and over again, and every time you did, Marney or AoO was there with a long, clear post giving you the proof that you sought. Did you even read any of those posts, or did you just preemptively reply to all of them with the same bullshit about how you thought about what they said, but still didn't believe it? The proof you seek, and proof for anyone that has doubts about evolution, is all in that last thread. Anyone who can read through that thread and not accept the fact of evolution has a completely closed mind.

 

And really, your views on globalization aren't much better. You came into the thread with the very sophisticated viewpoint of "globalization sucks and doesn't help anyone", and your reply to LooseCannon was exactly the same as your replys in the past. "I don't agree with liberal viewpoints and you can't change my opinion" is not an argument. Seriously, if your viewpoint on every subject is completely fixed, than what's the point of discussing anything with anyone?

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Dude, you never proved evolution, if you did you'd be the first ever to do so. Until they find a missing link it cannot be proven. You cannot tell me when, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter? Why? Because you don't know, no one does. Tell me this, when, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself? Maybe you can tell me how did matter get so perfectly organized? Yeah, you can prove evolution. Face it, it is just a theory that is unproven. A theory less than 150 years old no less. The only way for the theory of evolution to get any credit is for lots and lots of time to pass and be recorded, and i'm sorry 150 years compared to what you would say would be billions upon billions of years is far from enough time.

 

--Rob

[Guest EricMM]

The origin of life is much harder to identify, and I certainly couldn't tell you how life started. But as we have said many time before, the origin of life is not the same thing as evolution, there is no "evolutionist" religion, and evolution happens all the time, see the fucking peppered moth in England during the industrial revolution, dammit!

 

Explain that away.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Dude, I cannot explain the peppered moth, I am not a scientist. You asking me that question is like me asking you about symbiotic circles. Just think for one second how two different animals depend on one another to live. Did they evolve at the same time, right out fo the dirt? You explain that shit, then i'll tell you about the peppered moth.

 

--Rob

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<You cannot tell me when, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?>>>

 

How fucking dense are you? This is *not* evolution, it is a *completely* different subject. I am not going to argue the origins of life, as I am not qualified to do so, and really, no one knows. But, as I kept telling you in the other thread when you kept babbling about how refuting the big bang theory disproved evolution, stop arguing about unrelated subjects. Knocking down straw men about other subjects of science doesn't change the fact that you have yet to give any arguments against *evolution*.

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<Dude, I cannot explain the peppered moth, I am not a scientist. You asking me that question is like me asking you about symbiotic circles. Just think for one second how two different animals depend on one another to live. Did they evolve at the same time, right out fo the dirt? You explain that shit, then i'll tell you about the peppered moth.>>>

 

LOL! So wait, your argument against evolution is "I'm not a scientist so I don't understand what's going on"? Then shut the fuck up and accept what the people that actually understand tell you, sheesh.

 

And as for symbiotic cycles, I'm almost positive that you pulled that out in the last debate, and got an explanation, so stop pretending like no one's ever refuted your arguments.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

<<<Dude, I cannot explain the peppered moth, I am not a scientist. You asking me that question is like me asking you about symbiotic circles. Just think for one second how two different animals depend on one another to live. Did they evolve at the same time, right out fo the dirt? You explain that shit, then i'll tell you about the peppered moth.>>>

 

LOL! So wait, your argument against evolution is "I'm not a scientist so I don't understand what's going on"? Then shut the fuck up and accept what the people that actually understand tell you, sheesh.

no no no, you shut the fuck up and realize this, 1. evolution cannot be proven and 2. evolution and the origin of life are given one and the same. The only theory given which evolution is not one and the same with the origin of lie is "The Gap Theory: which basically says the time placed between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is millions of years old which is obsurd also. Most evolutionists believe in the big bang theory and that we originated from dirt. If I am wrong, what do you believe?

 

--Rob

[Guest RobJohnstone]

And as for symbiotic cycles, I'm almost positive that you pulled that out in the last debate, and got an explanation, so stop pretending like no one's ever refuted your arguments.

It can't be proved

 

--Rob

[Guest EricMM]

In a nutshell, for symbiotic relationships, came from one plant/animal using another one for food, shelter, and evolving to adapt to better use that plant/animal. Then the plant/animal that is being used gets used to an animal constantly being around it, and it will evolve ways to use the organism that is using it.

[Guest KoR Fungus]

Stop fucking saying "evolutionists". I am not an "evolutionist", I am simply a person that understands the fact of evolution. What I believe is that once life formed, species progressed via natural selection. Because I don't believe that science currently has the answers to every single question that one could ask about the universe, I don't have to try to explain the beginning of the universe or the origin of life. And I don't believe in "The Gap Theory" either, because I don't believe in God, and therefore don't believe he did anything, ever. I just don't know how life formed, and I leave it at that.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

That explanation does not work for every symbiotic relationship. The world is to perfect for there not to be a creator.

Do you believe in god?

 

--Rob

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<The world is to perfect for there not to be a creator.>>>

 

The thing is, as explained in the other thread, the world isn't perfect at all. There's all sorts of bizarre imperfections in most organisms. Do you think God deliberately created us with organs that serve no purpose except to get inflamed and kill us? How about our extremely inefficient eyes, that was also part of his master plan? Where's the perfection there?

[Guest RobJohnstone]

I believe the world was much different before the flood of NOAH. That is why people written about in the bible lived to be 700-800 years old. Shit, I mean adam had direct contact with god, i'm sure they were extremly smart as well. We are now in imperfection because of the sins of people before the flood. But still too perfect to just be created from dirt.

 

--Rob

[Guest EricMM]

You aren't perfect at all, you are the worst form of an ignorant shit.

 

You talk like Evolution is impossible, HOW is some kind of sybiosis impossible.

 

You're dropping fairy tales like they're truth, you need to stop that.

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<I believe the world was much different before the flood of NOAH. That is why people written about in the bible lived to be 700-800 years old. Shit, I mean adam had direct contact with god, i'm sure they were extremly smart as well. We are now in imperfection because of the sins of people before the flood. But still too perfect to just be created from dirt.>>>

 

*Weeps*. I really, really hoped you'd give up the flood crap. I mean, AoO totally shredded it last time. Just so you'll remember, I'll copy and paste his post here. Unless you can refute any of it, then stop trying to use the flood as evidence. It's embarassing, even compared to your other crap.

 

Courtesy of AoO:

 

---

 

Of Mountains and Seas

 

Ok, considering that "the great flood" covered all of the land on the planet, a planet only a few thousand years old, we can assume that this water covered Mt. Everest, the world's tallest peak, which is 29,028 ft (8,848 m) high. That's just to cover the tippy-top of said peak. Five and a half miles of rain, planet-wide, in the time span of 960 hours. (40 x 24 hours)

 

That's 30.2 feet of water per hour.

 

Or 6 inches of rain per minute.

 

Care to guess the temperature at that altitude?

 

How about the concentration of oxygen in that part of the atmosphere?

 

I'll spare exact statistics at this point and say very very cold, and almost no oxygen.

 

Explorers need to carry tanks of air to even climb that peak for god's sake. Do you think they had that luxury in biblical times? of course not. Let alone the survival of all the animals that were subjected to those conditions. Did god create some magical bubble of air and warmth for Noah and co? If so, forget about that whole "Passive god" idea that was brought up earlier, THAT would require some pretty amazing divine intervention.

 

I'm not drowning

 

Now, let's forgo all logical thought and assume our bible pals are floating about just below a jet liner's cruising altitude on a raging sea. The miles and miles of H2O below them had to come from someplace, and it had to go somewhere. Now, why is it that I'm sitting here in the midwest and am not submerged in approximately 5.5 miles of freezing brine? Did it all just evaporate? Why isn't it in our atmosphere right now?

 

A floating zoo, barn, and garden

 

What was the fate of plant life? Did Noah bring all sorts of trees on the ark as well? Since you don't believe evolution exists either, how in the fuck can you possibly think all those fuzzy critters and all those leafy trees fit on a boat of these dimensions, According to Genesis 6:15:

 

135 meters long (300 cubits), 22.5 meters wide (50 cubits), and 13.5 meters high (30 cubits). That's 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high.

 

A craft that size isn't large enough to support the life of 2 OF EVERY ANIMAL ON EARTH, taking into account space for food, cleanliness factors, animals eating each other, freezing, and gasping for breath, for 40 days and 40 nights, not to mention animals on different continents not being able to even reach the ark in the first place. Besides, they land on Ararat, Noah turns the critters loose, how did they get home?

 

Sleep with the Fishes

 

Now, the seas are teeming with all forms of sea life. We know the oceans are salty, and rainfall is fresh water. This isn't anything new, next time it rains, go outside and taste some rainwater. Go ahead. Taste some. It's fresh! 5.5 miles of fresh water and the water in the ocean would mix into a brackish mess, effectively killing all sea animals, both fresh water and salt. Let's also consider the immense pressure the sudden addition of that much water would be subjected to all sea life. Well, taking a look at our oceans teeming with life, something is obviously fishy there. (Dig the pun.)

 

LAND, HO!

 

The floating menagerie crash landed on Mount Ararat, allegedly, and Ararat's two peaks, named Great Peak and Little Peak, are 16,916 feet, and 12,840 feet respectively. Conditions aren't much friendlier there. Certainly not nice enough to start a vineyard, at any rate.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

"Explorers need to carry tanks of air to even climb that peak for god's sake. Do you think they had that luxury in biblical times? of course not. Let alone the survival of all the animals that were subjected to those conditions. Did god create some magical bubble of air and warmth for Noah and co? If so, forget about that whole "Passive god" idea that was brought up earlier, THAT would require some pretty amazing divine intervention."

 

That's the point god can do almost whatever he wants. I do not intend to try to point out shit he cannot do but obviously by you mocking me, I can see you do not believe in god. Too bad for you, it's not to late to take in the lord.

 

--Rob

[Guest EricMM]

"Just because", "Because God made it so", "Because the bible says so", and "It's just my opinion" are not good reasons to prove anything.

 

Let me tell you something. I don't believe god would appreciate having any intentional idiots in heaven.

 

"ROBJOHNSTONE, THOU HAST *NOT* BEEN MADE IN MY IMAGE, FOR THOU ART AN IDIOT! GET THEE FROM MY SIGHT!"

 

That's pretty much how I feel certainly, although I'm not God. I've never ever ever met anyone who ignores truth the way you do. Does it feel fun? Is it nice? Why do you do it!?

 

*EDIT* added commas and spelling *EDIT*

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<Too bad for you, it's not to late to take in the lord.>>>

 

Oh yes, I better go ahead and do that. I mean, if not, God will probably dump a bunch of water on me and then recreate humanity with backwards thumbs and a second appendix.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Until they find a missing link it cannot be proven.

 

They have. Early Tetrapods (ex. Dendrerpeton) are the missing link between fish and amphibeans (their closest living relative is the lung fish).

[Guest DrTom]

The world is to perfect for there not to be a creator.

Chaos theory disproves this silly little maxim quite handily. I'd recommend a book on the subject, but the chances of you reading it, understanding it, and considering your opinions based on it are remote, to say the least.

 

We are now in imperfection because of the sins of people before the flood.

Please explain how a perfect being can beget something that is imperfect.

 

That's the point god can do almost whatever he wants.

"Almost" isn't in the description of perfection. Either your god is perfect or he's not, and if he's not, that opens a rather large can of worms for those of you who believe.

 

Too bad for you, it's not to late to take in the lord.

It is for some of us.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Too bad for you, it's not to late to take in the lord.

 

I think someone else says things like this... um... what's his name?

 

Oh yeah! John Paul II! And call me nutty, but even the FREAKING CATHOLIC CHURCH has acknowledged Evolution as a natural and all-encompassing force.

 

The essential part of your argument is asking for something that has yet to be found, so naturally you think you're right. Of course, the flaw in this is that you're talking about Man only, and ignoring the billions of other species on this planet. Tom was right, you're just someone who shuts their ears and yells to drown out opposing arguments.

 

And I'll keep the lord out of my life, thank you very much. It's fucking nutcases like you that drive me away from any and all organized religion.

 

Kotzenjunge

Is About to Just Flame This Retard

[Guest RobJohnstone]

<<<Too bad for you, it's not to late to take in the lord.>>>

 

Oh yes, I better go ahead and do that. I mean, if not, God will probably dump a bunch of water on me and then recreate humanity with backwards thumbs and a second appendix.

it's ok for you to mock me. Me being me being one of the only conservatives on this board, as well as being a christian seem to leave me no support. We will see how you feel on judgement day.

 

--Rob

[Guest big Dante Cruz]

Rob, it's not that you're conservative and it's not that you're Christian. I am as well, but you're making dead sure that you cram it down everyone's throats and therefore they're rejecting it. Have you never noticed that threats of damnation never really get anywhere? For crying out loud, don't get so fundamental here.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

"I think someone else says things like this... um... what's his name?

 

Oh yeah! John Paul II! And call me nutty, but even the FREAKING CATHOLIC CHURCH has acknowledged Evolution as a natural and all-encompassing force."

 

Honestly, this does not help your arguement at all. I am not catholic and I do not support the vatican. Why even bring up an organization that is soft on pederass's? No organization is credible when they let people sexual abuse children.

 

 

"The essential part of your argument is asking for something that has yet to be found, so naturally you think you're right. Of course, the flaw in this is that you're talking about Man only, and ignoring the billions of other species on this planet. Tom was right, you're just someone who shuts their ears and yells to drown out opposing arguments."

 

No no no, both of our arguements have yet to be found. Have we found a missing link that proves man "evolved" from monkeys? NO. Like I said before your theory is less than 150 years old, it hasn't had enough time to be proven. There have been proven cases of micro evolution but... A horse comes from a horse, not a lizard or a fish or any other animal. I do not shut my ears and yell, I am trying to explain to you my reasons as to what I believe. If I were you i'd seriously consider thinking about researching your very young theory.

 

"And I'll keep the lord out of my life, thank you very much. It's fucking nutcases like you that drive me away from any and all organized religion."

 

A big reason why our society is the way it is now with no morals and such is because children are not taught to believe and fear god. Theories like evolution that are taught as fact in school totally block god out of the picture. If we were a more christian nation as we were in the beginning periods of this nation, we probably would not have alot of the problems we have today.

 

--Rob

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Rob, it's not that you're conservative and it's not that you're Christian. I am as well, but you're making dead sure that you cram it down everyone's throats and therefore they're rejecting it. Have you never noticed that threats of damnation never really get anywhere? For crying out loud, don't get so fundamental here.

I'm trying not to but for someone to say evolution is proven is a lie. It is as proven as creation but because of the liberal seperation of church and state, they cannot, or willnot teach creation. As a christian do you believe in evolution?

 

--Rob