Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted November 8, 2002 One thing I don't understand is that if Vince is still the main influence on the ENTIRE WWE product, then why are Raw and Smackdown so drastically different? Maybe Vince thinks Smackdown is fundamentally a better show so he doesn't try to mess with the chemistry by injecting ludicrous angles like we see on Raw. I know Vince still oversees everything, but when you watch Raw, you definately can see that it is a Vince McMahon production, where as on Smackdown you see a more wrestling-based show that has slight V-mac handprints here and there. Does Vince just realize Smackdown has many superior workers so he doesn't say anything? Does he know Raw consists of a lesser quality of wrestlers so he feels he needs these weird angles out of desperation?? What gives......at first I figured maybe he just wanted to stress the BRAND EXTENSION and actually have two different kinds of shows, but then I remember the Vince Ego-machine that would rather have his OWN CREATION fail, then get popular using someone elses system.......Thoughts??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted November 8, 2002 I think it's because on one show he's putting his stamp of approval on Paul Heyman's writing... and on the other he's stamping Brian Gerwitz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cataclysm911 Report post Posted November 8, 2002 I think it's because on one show he's putting his stamp of approval on Paul Heyman's writing... and on the other he's stamping Brian Gerwitz. That pretty much sums it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted November 8, 2002 Ok well that much is true, but what I am saying is, you'd think if Vince likes Raw(weird entertainment) more, then he would tell Paul to step up the dramatics and think of some crazy ideas to inject, but instead he just leaves Paul be as far as we know. I am just wondering if it is because he truly wants two DIFFERENT types of shows, or he is just letting the writers do their thing or what......? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cataclysm911 Report post Posted November 8, 2002 I think that it has a lot to do with the fact the UPN is a network station and TNN is just a cable station. I don't think the RAW type storylines would fly too well on a network. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted November 8, 2002 Honestly... I think its all ego. Vince want to have a wrestling show and a sports entertainment show, and he wants them to succeed so that his ego can say "I can promote anything"...despite numerous examples to the contrary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted November 8, 2002 I think both of you guys are right, and I guess I am lucky you two are up late like me for some conversation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted November 8, 2002 there is also another angle to this... Vince could claim he Liked the crap Raw was subjected too the past few weeks, its Necro angle and the like, not because he really liked it, but It was Bombing and he didn't want to admit Mistakes or Failure, so it is Basically Political SPIN. Like it takes a lot for JR to just bust out that Raw flat out Sucks, he'll say its a Work in progress, or it will eventually improve. Anyone remember exactly what was the point when Raw turned into a Shit show that they needed to Improve? I'd say it would be the move to TNN. Lost the USA Nationwide Exposure. But thats another topic Entirely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest phoenixrising Report post Posted November 8, 2002 I second with the move to TNN being the beginning of the downfall for RAW...just didn't seem to have the same atmosphere as it did on USA...couldn't put my finger on why though. I think Vince spends more time on RAW because he can run the type of angles he wants to run: controversial ones that would not fly on network TV. RAW has a seven-second delay so TNN can edit cuss words or what not so Vince can try out his next great direction or money-making angle without a lot of complaints from the censors. Also it could be that Vince still considers RAW his "baby", the show has been around for the good times and the bad and is one of his better ideas. Smackdown is more wrestling-oriented IMO cause it is a network show. Showing the necrophilia on Smackdown would have brought the wrath of EVERYONE on Vince, assuming UPN didn't just flat out edit out the whole angle. Remember also, material on Smackdown is more likely to be criticized by groups such as the PTC because it's on a network in primetime with kids watching. So Smackdown is the cleaner show, just replace the questionable content with more wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted November 8, 2002 Smackdown is more wrestling-oriented IMO cause it is a network show. Showing the necrophilia on Smackdown would have brought the wrath of EVERYONE on Vince, assuming UPN didn't just flat out edit out the whole angle. Remember also, material on Smackdown is more likely to be criticized by groups such as the PTC because it's on a network in primetime with kids watching. So Smackdown is the cleaner show, just replace the questionable content with more wrestling. Uhm.. The gay wedding angle aired on SmackDown. While that did air controversy, I think the disappointing finish that sent everything down the tubes (NY Times and appearances on Today just to reveal Bischoff in a mask???) made the media in a "Oh, gee, Vince McMahon fooled us again. I guess we'll just ignore him from now on." SmackDown or Raw, people would have cared about the necro angle if Vince hadn't already shown his cards to be a desperate son of a gun who sees no problem hitting the ethical lows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted November 8, 2002 It wasn't the move to TNN so much as Steph getting involved with the writing at roughly the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted November 8, 2002 Vince wants the split to work. Plain and simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 8, 2002 How is that Working...What does that accomplish? Easy solution...Move Heyman to Mondays...The wrestlers alone will carry Smackdown...Heyman can recreate ECW on Raw....Only Hurdle? HHHIM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Satanico Report post Posted November 8, 2002 Or it could be that Vince is running Raw as sports entertainment crap and Smackdown as wrestling in order to see which does better. Then he's going to base what they focus on in the future off the results. So in other words turn Raw off and never watch it and turn Smackdown on everyweek. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted November 8, 2002 there is also another angle to this... Vince could claim he Liked the crap Raw was subjected too the past few weeks, its Necro angle and the like, not because he really liked it, but It was Bombing and he didn't want to admit Mistakes or Failure, so it is Basically Political SPIN. Like it takes a lot for JR to just bust out that Raw flat out Sucks, he'll say its a Work in progress, or it will eventually improve. Anyone remember exactly what was the point when Raw turned into a Shit show that they needed to Improve? I'd say it would be the move to TNN. Lost the USA Nationwide Exposure. But thats another topic Entirely. Although, odd that USA would so easily let the WWF go considering they still were doing rather well at the time. Now...who the hell watches USA? Usually the only stuff on there that I've seen were really bad old movies and softcore porn flicks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted November 8, 2002 Or it could be that Vince is running Raw as sports entertainment crap and Smackdown as wrestling in order to see which does better. Then he's going to base what they focus on in the future off the results. So in other words turn Raw off and never watch it and turn Smackdown on everyweek. No..Vince it too proud to run all wrestling shows, plus you can't compare each ones successes or failures unless you go by just attendance, since on is on cable (TNN), the other on a network (UPN), and PPVs contain matches from both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Satanico Report post Posted November 8, 2002 Well if ratings raise on one and drop on another it's enough evidence for Vince. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted November 8, 2002 The wrestlers aren't the only thing working though. The booking has been great and even the main event feud, in a match that should suck, has been booked pretty good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted November 8, 2002 Vince will conclude that one segment got a .5 rise as a complete success for an entire show. again I believe that goes to the SPIN job to defend the shit Steph and HHH is making up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted November 8, 2002 The wrestlers aren't the only thing working though. The booking has been great and even the main event feud, in a match that should suck, has been booked pretty good. Precisely...pretty much everything's clicking, although I'm certain that AS will bitch about the booking of Angle and Benoit, I'm sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonX 0 Report post Posted November 8, 2002 One thing I don't understand is that if Vince is still the main influence on the ENTIRE WWE product, then why are Raw and Smackdown so drastically different? Maybe Vince thinks Smackdown is fundamentally a better show so he doesn't try to mess with the chemistry by injecting ludicrous angles like we see on Raw. I know Vince still oversees everything, but when you watch Raw, you definately can see that it is a Vince McMahon production, where as on Smackdown you see a more wrestling-based show that has slight V-mac handprints here and there. Does Vince just realize Smackdown has many superior workers so he doesn't say anything? Does he know Raw consists of a lesser quality of wrestlers so he feels he needs these weird angles out of desperation?? What gives......at first I figured maybe he just wanted to stress the BRAND EXTENSION and actually have two different kinds of shows, but then I remember the Vince Ego-machine that would rather have his OWN CREATION fail, then get popular using someone elses system.......Thoughts??? Something no one has mentioned (and shame on you guys for forgetting about it): The WWE's television contract with UPN for Smackdown expires at the end of the 2002-2003 television season. The TNN contract for Raw doesn't expire until 2005. So Vince is basically sabatoging Raw and building Smackdown up as the BETTER show in order to get ratings up and UPN to commit to a second multi-year contract for the show. As far as I know, Raw's future is secure until 2005. Vince has purposely let it go to hell from the very moment that they finally decided to pull the trigger on the Promotional Split so as to make Smackdown THE show to watch, even though by doing so he's going to probably piss TNN off so much that he'll probably not get a new contract for Raw come 2005 and/or get forced to take a very, very low TV deal with the Viacom Networks as opposed to the sweetheart deal he got when the WWE jumped ship to TNN a couple of years back... It's that simple.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
