OK. Let's have a serious fucking discussion..

[Guest Cataclysm911]

I wanna get everyone's opinions. Somethings that people use against him seem to be speculation.

 

Let's start with a list.

 

Cons?

[Guest Anglesault]

His performance in the ring is awful.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

His performance in the ring is awful.

Can't deny that.

 

Long and boring promo's that make the crowd not care.

[Guest Kingpk]

His promos are long winded and boring.

 

Can't really tell if he's supposed to be a face or heel now.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

He has a spot he doesn't deserve. He doesn't draw huge crowds, he sucks in the ring, for the love of god he had a worse match with the Undertaker than f'n Hogan did! His match with Hogan was worse than UT's match with Hogan! He's worse than UT and Hogan! He was carried at Summerslam by a man that hasn't wrestled in 4 years! He can't keep a crowd interested in a match or promo at all. I mean let's forget all the backstage stuff and look at what I just said. Why is he in his spot? He doesn't deserve it at all! That's why I hate him.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Cons:

 

He wins so often that there is no drama in his matches, because you know he will win. As a face this is bad enough, but it is even worse as a heel since it is the job of the heel to put over the face in the blowoff. He doesn't just beat the face, but he makes them look bad by not selling properly.

 

The other big problem with HHH is that he on so much that rather than simply hating him for being evil, we just are sick of him and want him to go away. Hogan in 1998 was exactly the same, and it was the beginning of the downfall of WCW.

[Guest Anglesault]

He somehow got it into his head that a the sleeper should be a signature spot.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

1.) In ring performance down. Way down.

2.) Promo work subpar.

3.) Lackluster crowd interest.

4.) Tweener.

5.) Matches lack drama.

6.) Stale

 

Ok, that should be enough to complain about for now.

 

Pros?

 

Seriously. Without sarcasm.

 

Pros.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Pros? Ummm.............ok........

-He had a good run in 2000......2 years ago.

-umm.......he's ripped for those that care about that sort of thing.......

[Guest Anglesault]

Pros: if properly motivated, he'll allow his friends to carry him (Summerslam)

[Guest Ram]

Is intense.

[Guest IB2BLACK]

I like him.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Actually HHH is not a tweener. He is a heel. The problem is that he acts like a tweener despite the fact that he is supposed to be a heel.

 

A true tweener (like Benoit & Angle on Smackdown) can work. They are not as evil as the Guerreros nor as good as Edge & Rey, and it works well.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Big name value.

[Guest AM The Kid]

Used to be a great heel.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Actually HHH is not a tweener. He is a heel. The problem is that he acts like a tweener despite the fact that he is supposed to be a heel.

 

A true tweener (like Benoit & Angle on Smackdown) can work. They are not as evil as the Guerreros nor as good as Edge & Rey, and it works well.

I know. That's why it was a con.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Pros: He's on RAW so I don't have to watch him stink of the show that I care about. This goes for Michaels, Kane, RVD, and other guys I hate.

 

Seriously, I can't think of one good thing about him right now. He used to have a good look, but now he looks horrible. Undertaker has more mobility than HHH does right now. He has lots of muscles, but he is as stiff as the Warlord.

[Guest Loss4Words]

HHH's greatest "pro" at this point is that he has a lot of credibility and it's one thing that he has more of than Steve Austin or the Rock, simply because they have put over younger guys when push has come to shove over the years and HHH hasn't. Therefore, beating HHH means more than beating Austin or Rock.

 

Now, the key is getting HHH to use that credibility to create a new star. On its own, that credibility is meaningless because it's not selling tickets. It's not getting people to buy PPV's. It's not getting fans to tune in to Raw.

 

But if HHH could actually use that credibility, that strong history of winning decisively, and start showing real vulnerability, a few things would happen:

 

1. At least one wrestler would benefit and the main event picture on Raw might be shaken up a little bit.

2. HHH would himself have a fresh feud with a fresh opponent in a feud with suspense, thus raising his own market value.

3. A lot of people would get off his back.

 

If HHH is clueless about how to elevate someone, all he has to do is look at his own path to the top and help an up and coming star emulate it.

 

I think 2002 has proven, between the Wrestlemania buildup, the necrophilia angle and the convoluted storylines that HHH is probably not the Smartest Man In Wrestling. Rather, he's the most conscientious.

[Guest goodhelmet]

i think the cons were summed up perfectly and, as of right now, i see no pros. poersonally, i could give a shit who he is fucking, how many times he has sucked vince's dick, who he's holding down, etc. i just want to watch good wrestling matches. he doesn't provide them. unfortunately, when his backstage clout or whatever allows him to be on tv for as long as he is, THEN it affects me. if he was holding down booker, rvd, jericho, whoever but putting on **** matches, then rock the fuck on! in the meantime, get him off my fucking screen.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Pro's

 

1.) Intensity during matches.

2.) Big name value.

3.) Has shown in the past that he can be the top heel in the business.

 

Ok, well obviously he was going to have more cons than pros. Especially on the Smarkboard. That being said, what can be done to correct the problem areas?

 

Slow boring promos? Maybe they wouldn't be as boring if they were few and far between.

 

Lack of drama and emotion in matches? Well, that can be blamed on bad and poorly written storylines.

 

His pros.

 

Big name value means that his merchandise will sell. Assuming that fan interest is high. Intensity during matches? Well, it would mean more if he didn't try to be a tweener.

 

What will it take for him to be a good heel again? Less t.v. time doesn't make sense.

[Guest IB2BLACK]

Can someone name the people Austin put over? Because I can't recall. Also, besides Lesnar who has Rock put over?

[Guest Cataclysm911]

HHH's greatest "pro" at this point is that he has a lot of credibility and it's one thing that he has more of than Steve Austin or the Rock, simply because they have put over younger guys when push has come to shove over the years and HHH hasn't. Therefore, beating HHH means more than beating Austin or Rock.

 

Now, the key is getting HHH to use that credibility to create a new star. On its own, that credibility is meaningless because it's not selling tickets. It's not getting people to buy PPV's. It's not getting fans to tune in to Raw.

 

But if HHH could actually use that credibility, that strong history of winning decisively, and start showing real vulnerability, a few things would happen:

 

1. At least one wrestler would benefit and the main event picture on Raw might be shaken up a little bit.

2. HHH would himself have a fresh feud with a fresh opponent in a feud with suspense, thus raising his own market value.

3. A lot of people would get off his back.

 

If HHH is clueless about how to elevate someone, all he has to do is look at his own path to the top and help an up and coming star emulate it.

 

I think 2002 has proven, between the Wrestlemania buildup, the necrophilia angle and the convoluted storylines that HHH is probably not the Smartest Man In Wrestling. Rather, he's the most conscientious.

Well, who could he elevate?

 

Booker T?

RVD?

Chris Jericho?

 

They've all been buried.

 

If it's an up and comer like Randy Orton then he will get knocked like Brock does.

 

It's a never ending cycle of constant fickle bitching.

 

Seriously, who should he give the rub too?

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Can someone name the people Austin put over? Because I can't recall. Also, besides Lesnar who has Rock put over?

Rock has put over everyone in the company.

 

Austin, Triple H, Taker, Jericho, etc.

[Guest IB2BLACK]

How did Rock put over Austin & Taker, and HHH? They are already there.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

How did Rock put over Austin & Taker, and HHH? They are already there.

He still did the job. Almost always on PPV as well.

 

It doesn't matter. Stay on topic.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

I'd certainly like to know who Austin put over. For an instant it looked like he might put over Angle, but then he won the title back in his first TV appearance since he lost it, before turning face and beating Angle conclusively a few more times. Austin might have put Triple H over in the 2/3 falls match if he hadn't given him that stupid stunner afterwards. Rock's put over plenty of people, yet he himself remains someone who has never actually beaten Austin.

[Guest HollywoodSpikeJenkins]

Can someone name the people Austin put over? Because I can't recall. Also, besides Lesnar who has Rock put over?

Jericho...kinda

Angle

Benoit

 

Probably some more, but I can't remember.

[Guest Loss4Words]

Rock made HHH a star in 1999. Rock put over Angle in a title match in 2000. Rock did everything he possibly could to solidify Jericho as a bonafide main eventer in 2001. Rock finally let Brock Lesnar decimate him in 2002.

 

Not to mention that Rock has done jobs for guys like Rhyno, Al Snow, and he even tapped to the Crippler Crossface earlier this year.

 

As for Austin, he didn't have quite the track record of Rock in terms of making new stars, but he put Jericho over three times in three high profile matches and like Rock with Jericho, he did everything he could to get Angle to the next level. In both situations, management didn't have the confidence in either guy to keep them there, but you can't blame Austin or Rock for that.

 

The Undertaker couldn't even put Kane over, which is why Kane is still seen as being just a shade below the main event level. And I can't think of a single wrestler who has EVER benefitted from a feud with HHH.

 

As for who he should put over, it's the same guys he's already buried. They are the ones that need to go over and RVD, Booker and Jericho aren't totally hopeless yet, even if they have all been damaged.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Austin worked his way to the top. I remember watching him job to Savio Vega and company. He started low in WCW, worked his way up a lil. Didn't do much in ECW.. then came to the WWE. Started low, worked to the top. He desevered everything that he got. Also, he was always entertaining, unlike Triple H, who has gotten boring since being at the top.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Austin continuously made Jericho look like shit. Complete shit. Am I the only one who remembers this? What about when Austin squashed Jericho the week before he won the title? His track record is as bas as Triple H's IMO, but then again neither of them can boast the list of shattered careers the Undertaker is responsible for. Anyways, Triple H - if he dropped the weight and went back to being the uber dick heel that he once was he could easily become watchable again.