WWF politics

[Guest mastermind]

You know, many people say that the wwf started to go downhill after WrestleMania XVII last year. I wonder if it has to do with the politics to make itself look superior to Ted Turner and wcw. Maybe the cancer of the wwf isn't the nWo, but the wwf wrestlers themselves. I also find something very strange with people just blaming certain people for the ratings downfall. I think the finger is being pointed at the wrong people.

 

First, look at the last Nitro ever. Mcmahon runs down the company. He makes certain guys like Jarret look like a fool. Austin turns heel without a proper reason(they had a lot to work with, but didn't). The ratings start to fall, so to make the wwf look good they bring in wcw(where I say things really started to suck).

 

DDP gets squashed immediately killing his reputation for being a multiple time world champ in wcw. He did get a good pop when he showed up on RAW, so it can't be blamed on DDP not being a draw. He eventually gets so humiliated he loses to Taker's REAL LIFE wife. What is wrong with this picture? I know, it's paying your dues and teaching DDP a lesson because of the image he had in wcw. Hogwash! The wwf guys just didn't want their tv time and push given to a wcw guy. I guess out of pity the wwf felt bad the man took a pay cut and injured himself, so they gave him the worthless Euro-trash belt. Of course no mention of him being the champion is made. Of course, he is paying his dues and keeping the locker room happy. Hell, I don't think most people would argue he was much better when he was upsetting the locker room in wcw.

 

The World Champion Booker T enters the wwf by attacking Austin. So, naturally one would expect a champion vs. champion scenario. Nope, we get Booker T against freaking Buff Bagwell on tv. Nice way to get Booker over as Buff wasn't even a top contender for the title under Turner's banner. Again, the wwf guys not wanting to work with wcw people. Whether the bookers or the wrestlers the fact still remains. Booker WCW and U.S. Champ was doomed. He goes on to become a comedy character in the wwf. I guess he's paying his dues as well. Austin gets to thrash him in a grocery store. Hell, they put him with Test to insure he gets heatless.

 

The tag champs of wcw enter and get DESTROYED at SummerSlam. Palumbo is then put into a gay duo with Rock-a-Billy. Is this a coincident? I guess the other tag teams like Dudleys and Hardys need to have a happy locker room and not get challenged in the tag scene.

 

Hurricane Helms has his top move eliminated from his moveset. A move that definitely pops the crowd. Of course the reasoning is for safety percautions regardless of the fact he will never work a match with the people like Steve Austin or Undertaker who are injury prone. I guess it's to keep a happy locker room.

 

A referee can't fly first class(which he pays for) because the wwf feels someone like X-Pac is more deserving. You can't upset the flying conditions of the wwf. Speaking of X-Pac he sees the threat of Billy Kidman, Hurricane, and Tajiri. So, what does he do? He books himself as the first ever unified champion of both wcw and wwf by winning the LHW and the Cruiserweight title. This win isn't even acknowledged as important which would set the trend. He loses the title and then wins it back after a ppv killing the heat of the other cruiserweights. Of course you got to keep a happy locker room.

 

Rob Van Damn enters the wwf and is hot like fire. He is doing moves majority of the roster can't even pull off. He is getting over as a face although he is suppose to be a heel. He busts up some guys and is ridiculed for being sloppy. He is told to dumb down his moveset. He obviously is pushed when the Alliance needed someone besides Austin to make them look like any thing of a threat. As soon as the Alliance dies so does his push it seems. I guess it's to keep the locker room happy.

 

Ric Flair comes into the company with a bang. The following week he gets like five minutes of work. He gets a good push until the NWO come in and again the locker room leader is put into an angle with him and thus far has made his friend look terrible.

 

One of the great heel factions of all-time enter the wwf. They enter with a somewhat so-so interview on ppv. The next night they have an awesome interview segment with Rock. It gets into wacky world when Rock almost dies in a parking lot taking away a portion of the seriousness of the NWO. Austin who is said to have refused a program with Hogan gets to out think and out fight the nWo on the following SmackDown. They get revenge with a "cinder block". That is topped by the silliness of Nash getting "tackled by a net".

 

There are tons more to talk about. I was just thinking the real locker room cancer is the wwf wrestlers who won't sell anything for the Turner's former stars. I understand from a job seniority standpoint, but come on this is wrestling. This "jobbing" situation is hurting the wwf. Even with the wwf wrestlers themselves. Jobbing one week and then getting back the jobs. No one at the moment looks like the man to beat. Fans can't identify with the champions as the people to beat because the titles change hands every 2-4 weeks.

 

I find the current situation wasn't really around when the wwf and wcw had their best stints.

[Guest converge241]

Good stuff.

I think youre preaching to the converted on the smarkboard here.

It's maddening.

How are fans supposed to care about all these new people when they all have to look like crap upon there arrival cause of Vince's ego?

Even when the radicals came over they had to "be put in there place" or "pay their dues".

If you're paying a lot of money for some new additions to the product, dont you want to push them and get some money in return?

So some of them get little pushes and then get jobbed out or they never get a chance because "they cant work". Remeber in the old days your new characters would get vignettes and interviews to build them up? I know they couldnt have done that with all the guys but they could have done it with a good handful, and actually build them up with some wins. Fans dont take DDP or Booker T seriously cause they made them look so bad, only to try and theoretically "rebuid" them WWF style. I think you can point to the purchase as the exact moment when everything went wrong. All that potential.

[Guest Risk]

I agree 100%.

[Guest humongous2002]

I actually think that it's been going downhill for a while in the WWF, but it got worse right after the Alliance invasion. There are a lot of people to blame like the politics in the WWF, the writers and Vince's ego. I  mean how can you explain the logic of having Austin who was the WWF champion trying to put the WWF out of business and the Rock (WCW champion) trying to put the Alliance out of work if that meant their title would cease to exist if either company went down. Now the WWF made Jericho the first undisputed champion and they are making him look like a punk by being Stephanie's servant and killing whatever little heat he had left.

RVD the hottest newcomer who should be main eventing by now jobs to Taker a man way over his prime who should be putting new talent over and getting ready to retire. Then in the Royal Rumble, RVD knocks down everybody in the ring  and all of a sudden Triple H (the cerebral politician) pedigrees Van Dam taking away all the heat he had until that moment and getting thrown off the ring in less than 2 minutes.

I could go on and on with all the great wrestlers that are being misuse by the WWF (like Storm, Booker, Helms, Tazz, ...)while we get Chuck and Billy, Bossman, Test and Regal push down our throats. Hopefully after the federation split everything goes back to normal otherwise 2002 will be just like 2001, a shitty year in wrestling.

[Guest Risk]

I think the WWF should vacate all the titles after the split, and put them in tournaments with former champions.  The winners being the FIRST champions.   This would get rid of all the crappy storylines of the past...and rebuild the damage.

[Guest Will Scarlet]

I totally agree.  I never really understand Vince's hatred towards WCW.  I mean, he always seems to be out to embarrass guys whose names are even remotely associated with WCW, even if it costs him millions of dollars in the process.  

 

Another thing I never really understand is this "WWF style" stuff.  From the sounds of it, I am guessing that the WWF is punchy-kicky stuff, mixed in with a few signature spots, most of the time.  Sure, I can see this style working great in 1998 because it played to the wrestler's strengths. You had guys like the Rock and HHH who were pretty much still learning the ropes back then, guys like Austin who were still recovering injuries, and then you guys like Undertaker, Mick, and a bunch of useless crap in the midcard(Godwinns, DOA, Bossman) who were primarily brawlers.  Sure, you had guys who might be above average to good workers like D-Lo and Val Venis and superb wrestlers like the Lightweights, but basically a brawling style worked.

 

The thing that puzzles me is why use a brawling style when you have some of the best wrestlers in all North America in your league?  Why not have them go out and wrestle? Or change the style around and have it favour more towards wrestling and less toward brawling and signature spots.  Sure, it may hurt the "hosses," but with the Undertaker retiring, assumingly, soon, and guys like Albert and Test painfully not over, why not gradually change things around?  It seems like crowds were and, in RVD's case, still are, into guys like Tajiri and RVD when they first began wrestling and pulling out a whole new style that was totally different from the WWF.  Why not try to let other guys do that?  Have guys bust a few new moves, and maybe, just maybe the crowd will get into the match just a bit more, and perhaps even get into wrestlers a bit more as well.  Why keep using a tired, old style which does not ever play to most wrestlers strengths?  Ah well. That is just something that bothers me.

[Guest Tony149]

Great post mastermind. Vince forgot he owned WCW. He made them look second rate. I think ratings actually went up in the start of the WCW invasion, but died off after a month. There were reports that the WWF guys didn't like the fact the WCW guys would be taking up spots.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

The WWF's greatest enemy is Vince McMahon.

[Guest benoitisamidget]

Personally i think the whole WWF hates WCW thing is the fault of Chris Benoit. When he came over from WCW the WWF fans saw how much he blew and figured the rest of the WCW must have been just as bad. Its sad that his faults destroyed what could have been a great angle but what can you do? I personally think the wife-stealing, no talent loser should be fired to save us all from his horrible matches and zero charisma

[Guest Brian]

Wrestling's greatest enemy is Vince McMahon.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I'll just ignore benoitisamidget's post and say that none of the wcw stars have a chance of being a top star as long as vince has a say, because of his ilogical hatred for anything he didn't have a hand in creating.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

I have never seen more DE-pushes in my entire life!  I have usually been the one to try and reprimand all of those who babble on about RVD being held down, but tht was mainly because they were blaming HHH.  But all of this is TRUE! It's damn true!

 

Take a look:

 

The Big Show : Main event star in WCW, came over and became the same big star if not bigger.  Then, he gets sent to OVW, comes back with a pretty nice start ( Rock ) Then is totally depushed, and the WWF tries to point out his weaknessess and make him look like an idiot.  I don't know if I could ever see him as a legitamite main eventer again.  Maybe I was just a dumb mark, but his matches with Austin and some others, (HHH, Rock) had a lot of emotion to them, and I didn't care that he worked a little slow ( He was such a monster! )

 

 

Booker T :  He had it all. WCW's top titles, the flagship of that federation right up until its demise.  Comes in wiht an emotional run-in.  Made into a joke, and a whipping boy for the Rock, and later Austin. Not legit anymore.  Mid-carder.

 

DDP: Same as above, just sucks he had to fall victim to Taker.  I swear, I never saw that one coming, honest.  I really believed that feud was going to kick some ass.

 

Lance Storm:  This guy got the push from hell in WCW! Three titles at once,WOW.  He came in, got a cheap run at the IC belt, and seemed to be resuming that status. Now look where he is? What the hell?

 

RVD: We all know the story.

 

Raven: Former multiple time WCW Tag team champion, WCW Tv Title holder, WCW US Title holder, ECW World Champion, now he hardly has a job.  Here's a guy with a really cool and different gimmick, could have even been used to rejuvinate other gimmicks ( remember that whole Kane storyline the WWF was considering?) Came in and recieved a Hardcore title run, which was actually decent.  Then was looking for the Euro gold against Eddy, scrapped.  Invasion. Death of career.

 

Mike Awesome:  best big man out there to me, bnut was associated with WCW. By default, he sucks.  Became a yes man for Austin, got injured, who knows if he will be released or not.

 

Hell even Christian became just another face, and he was WWF born!  Geez, associating with the Alliance killed his career.  Meanwhile his brother Edge gets multiple PPV matches and wins for his half ass ring work.

 

Then you have people like Tajiri, Tazz, and Credible, who came in before the Invasion, and suffered after it.  Tazz got over quick and was a monster worker (beating Angle) Then got thrown into a program with Lawler (WHY?) And never regained momentum.  Tajiri is a pointless jobber, and the only thing Credible ever got was a nice story on WWF.com about his signing.

 

Vince McMahom is a genius!

 

Key here is, do not associate with anything but the WWF at any point in time, or you will pay!

 

Monopolies suck.

[Guest razazteca]

After reading this serious topic I am reminded of the Paul Heyman speech that he did during the peak of the Invasion angle.  The one with Paul listing all of the regional promotions that were buried and/or aquired by the WWF, "and you stole from ME, the atitude era was my ECW"

 

I believe that the McMahons had no intention at all to push the new talent.  The sole purpuse of owning the brand names of WCW and ECW was to make sure that there was no competition at all on Monday night.  Owning the talent would keep WWF as the monopoly, which Vince Jr always wanted since going national with the 1st Wrestlemania.  Now his dream is here but what are the repercussions?  How is the WWFE stock doing these days?

 

As Conan O'Brian would say In the Year 2000 and 2001, was a good year for wrestling.  The WWF was building new main event talent with Angle, Beniot, Jericho.  These wrestlers were given big event major pushes, Angle vs Benoit had several entertaining matches.  But Austin made his return forcing Angle to become his Savage to Austin's Hogan personal.  With Angle becoming a Austins sidekick during his face turn.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

In My opionion the wwf began to go haywire the raw after wrestlemania, i HATED the way austin explained his heel turn, and HHH should have turned face on Austin when he had the chance, the reaction was great for the tease.

[Guest converge241]

The worst thing about that tease was they had a built in reason for HHH to turn:

They hated each other and should have never worked together!

It's great that they wanted to build new face but did anything come of that?

Jericho and Benoit maybe, but Jericho was all for naught as he was heel again later.

And Benoit unfortuantely was injured.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Exactly, and the best part of it would have been it was completely different than what the wwf normally does, no one really expected HH to turn face because we were used to being swerved if had done the logical thing and turned face we would have been shocked.

[Guest Brian]

No, Vince wanted to make more money by controlling competition within, using the split. More pay per views, different product, more gates, more money. I don't know why he did the ECW thing, other than Heyman convinced him it was a good idea (and it could have been).

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Ecw was a great angle if it had been keeped sperate from the wcw faction. a three way feud would have worked great.

[Guest Some Guy]

I agree with most of whats been said. However I think the WWF started going downhill when there was no blowoff to the HHH/Angle program over Steph in late 2000.  Then when Austin came back after a year he is put into a program with Rikishi, which sucked.  Angle is booked like a joke as champion despite drawing against Austin at house shows.  This in my view was the beginning of the downfall.  The Austin heel turn and the WWF screwing up the Invasion just added to the problem.  The injuries also contributed to the problem, Benoit, HHH, Rhyno, etc...

The reason i think that the biggest factor in starting the downfall was HHH/Angle was that it was the first time in a while that pure politics were allowed to get in the way of an angle reaching it's logical and proper conclusion in a long time.

[Guest Human Fly]

WCW would have been better if the wrestlers could have gotten some decent wins. They were made to look weaker IMO and it cost them. A HHH face turn would have paid off a lot better a year ago. They had an overload of heels and it would have been perfect. Whatever though.

[Guest mastermind]

You know maybe it was the purchase that was the beginning of suckdom. I agree about the RAW after Mania. You know what speaking about Paul Wight you might have a point. He came in as a monster and he DID have solid matches with Austin. I remember Austin/Big Show got the highest RAW rating up to that point. Then they turned him face so quick for no reason. Then he's UT's slave and Taker gets injured. Big Show wins the title only because Austin couldn't be apart of the match. He is then put into the dreadful death angle. He goes onto Mania in screwy fashion and basically disappears after becoming wwf def jam.

 

However, he gets ridiclued by J.R. weekly about his weight and stuff. I don't remember the wwf actually POINTING OUT the weaknesses of their other stars because they are aplenty. He returns from the farm league(a former world champion that is) and is again put with Rock(good consistency). He then gts depushed in an angle about being the biggest disappointment in wwf history with Shane Mcmahon. Now how much different is this guy from Taker? If I was getting treated like this where the hell is my motivation?

 

You know that Benoit post isn't too far off you know. Benoit came in as the reigning wcw champion and was jobbed immediately to Triple H(which is another element that got Trips over that isn't really discussed). Didn't the radicalz lose all their matches on SmackDown that week which had the "fighting for a spot" storyline(which was a good storyline).

 

Later on, Benoit the real wcw champ gets fluke like wins over the champ Rock(although Rock at least gave him a job on tv I think). I don't know why some have left Jericho off the list. He came in super hot and the "happy locker room" bull started to act up again. You know he was too stiff and missing spots just like another hot commodity RVD would do 2 years later? Jericho gets a win over Triple H WHICH still doesn't get put into the current storyline because Trips and Steph are protecting Triple H. It would make Jericho look stronger as the man who beat ALL the top guys of the new wwf era. Of course the locker room can't have a wcw bred star get this glory because it would upset the locker room.

 

So what I say is the wwf HAS TO STOP THIS CRAP NOW! The nWo is deliberately getting dumb down. There is no excuse for a mush leg Austin getting any kind of upperhand that he slightly got on SmackDown. It will only get worse when Hall loses to Austin at Mania. Austin's original character was a street thug(witness his promos for his match with Bret at Series 96). Scott Hall looks like a street thug, so of course he is the one that has to dumb down that part of his persona, while Austin re-discovers his badass. Hall can have the catchphrase to counter Austin with the survey line, but he doesn't do it. I wonder why!  If he has Nash behind him along with Hogan Austin shouldn't be getting the upper hand like that. Could the wwf book the Scott Hall of srping/summer 1996 please?

 

Kevin Nash is another story. This guy looks like a lackey. What is the wwf afraid to let Nash show his charisma in fear that Shane's best friend Test will look inferior? Sure, Nash isn't the greatest ring talent in the last few years, but he does have wit and good mic skills. His shining moment so far was powerbombing Rock which got face pops. Oh, I get it. The locker room leader has something to do with this. Since Taker stole his persona. I see Taker has worn the hood sweater before Nash could. So, Nash's opponent at Mania is? And Taker's opponent is a person who can make him look good. I wonder.

 

Booker T is getting steretypical storylines no matter how the wwf may say otherwise. You think there would be a shampoo storyline if Booker had his previous hairstyle? Yeah, I think so too. He gets a win over Trips with Stephanie being the centre piece. The follow up is a clean pinfall losss to The Rock. You know get a job give it back scenario. Why can't they give Booker a similar push that Triple H got in 2000? He has the look of a powerhouse. Edge is losing heat big time, so put the goofy Booker in an angle with him where fans will back him.

 

It is pretty sad what has become of Christian. People thought it would be this way, but the trick here is that Christian was actually more over and entertaining than Edge in the early stages. The wwf wanted the Rockers effect.

 

Now about Hulk Hogan. Well, he hasn't been made to look stupid individually YET(although the multiple times he said cripple ass was funny). Some hate the guy and I understand why, but the wwf signed him and he does have some value through his name. Start elevating people and put them in position to look strong. Play off their past history because that's why the wwf signed them. Mr. Perfect is a shame. I even watched Street Smarts and the participants were giving him props. Wonder why his match lacked some heat last week? He got conked WEEKS ago by Austin and wasn't seen on RAW for weeks.

 

The younger stars can also be strong in position. Why the hell Regal has the I-C title(this champ originally was suppose to be the technical wizard who gave workrate and great matches) is beyond me. I guess he deserves something for kissing Mcmahon's ass on worldwide television.

 

Basically the wwf has to start changing this happy environment crap because it's simply to pull the wool over the eyes of the newcomers who are getting depushed for being apart of the company who almost ran them out of business. Well, depush them and you can get ran out business as well. They are here to help the business because that's what they did during in the second boom.

[Guest MrDanger]

Oh man there was so many things that were wrong with the Invasion angle.

 

1) Firstly Vince didn't sign anywhere enough top name WCW talent. Going into the Invasion with only DDP, Booker and Bagwell as your top guys was just asking for trouble. If they bought out Flair's contract in November then why couldn't they buy it out in May/June? They also had Hulk Hogan sitting on his ass at home not under any Time Warner contract.

 

2) The whole concept of the Invasion being yet another McMahon vs McMahon feud just reeked of stupidity. We've already seen Vince vs His Kids before and it wasn't particularly great the first time around. They should have signed Flair to act as WCW spokesman or even use Paul Heyman in a Wrestling vs Sports Entertainment storyline.

 

3) And which genius came up with the idea of originally presenting WCW as faces? WWF fans for years had been conditioned to hate WCW, why would they pay money to go to a WWF show to cheer for WCW wrestlers?

 

4) Steve Austin joining the Alliance was a decent idea in principle but they handled it all way. They should have played up on Austin's past speels in both ECW and WCW, they had tons of footage of Austin from WCW that they could have used to really establish him as a WCW guy, instead they really never established why he joined the Alliance.

 

5) Presenting the Alliance as either comedy characters or Austin's lackeys was perhaps the biggest mistake of them all, how can you take them as a serious threat to the WWF when Helms is running around in face paint and the likes of Morrus is joobing to Crash on Metal. They should have modelled the feud on New Japan vs All Japan feud, All Japan obviously had the weaker roster but they pushed it's trump card Toshiaki Kawada real hard via a huge win over Kensuke Sasaki. They should have done that with Booker T, instead of playing a comedy character they should have brought him in and put him clean over The Undertaker. If Taker had layed down then it would have sent out a clear message to the locker room, instead nobody had the balls to ask the WWF crew to do jobs that meant anything.

 

I don't think McMahon set out to deliberately to bury WCW, it was just a combination of bad planning, ego's and a little bad luck.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Vince has enjoyed dancing on WCW's grave. Now the monopoly is going to his head. The talent in the WWF today should give us a golden era. Instead we're looking to the past and a rehashing of that past that can only be a pale imitation.

 

A strong Booker and DDP would help no end. They are fresh, despite DDP's age, they can work, there are money matches there with Austin, Rock, Jericho, Angle, Benoit, HHH.

 

But they are WCW guys, so fuck 'em.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I would love to see DDP vs. Angle.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I would too but only if ddp dropped the dumb motivatinal speaker gimmick. oh and bring back self high five as his music! it was a great fit for DDP