Should the goverment be able to check our E-Mail?

[Guest Slapnuts00]

Exactly,you all are overreacting. This gives them the right to read documents of suspected terrorists. They're not gonna sit there and go through people's mail looking for things. They suspect Muhhamad Doe is connected to Al Queda and might be plotting something. They get a warrant to search his email in the interest of protecting innocent Americans. I don't see too much wrong with this, and it doesn't concern me much. They'd have no reason to search myself, and even if they did it wouldn't matter.

Anyway, I also agree on the whole PC issue hampering the war on terror. There was a great SNL parody a few weeks ago of an airline commercial about Racial Profiling, and it was dead on. Grandma isn't a terrorist, but because we don't want to offend some groups we just do "random" searches instead of pursuing the suspects. Whethere anyone likes it or not the suspect are Arab men. Does that mean all Arab men are terrorists? Of course not. But the ones that have vowed to kill Americans all are. We should take a cue from Israel, until their recent incident (which still avoided catastrophe because of their top notch backup alert system), El Al airlines is the most secure airline that never has any incident since they will thouroughly search any Arabs and make no qualms about it, and will confiscate anything from anybody that could be used as a weapon. It's made them one of if not the safest airlines in the world. They don't feel the need to appease anyone because protecting their innocent citizens is their number one priority. It should be the United States' too.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

I'm not an American, but surely this kind of thing would be unconstitutional?

 

This is despite the fact that Arab males between 18 and 40 have carried out all the external terrorist attacks against the US since 1993.

 

I agree with your point, but what about Oklahoma City?

I don't think oklahoma city was mcveigh or however his name is spelleed. Firdt they reported on their local news that they nfound like 3 to 4 bombs in the building (I have this on tape). When it got to the nation media it was a car bomb that did it all. That whole thing was as crooked as they come. As for the topic at hand, I am with you guys on not being "PC". Enough is enough with the government shitting on our constitutional rights.

 

--Rob

[Guest DrTom]

I agree with your point, but what about Oklahoma City?

That was an internal act of terrorism, while the original WTC bombings, the Embassy bombings, and 9/11 were external acts of terrorism. I wouldn't be surprised if McVeigh had some connections to some of the bigger scoundrels in the Middle East, but I don't know for certain, and I'm not going to engage in silly conspiracy theories over it.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Whethere anyone likes it or not the suspect are Arab men. Does that mean all Arab men are terrorists? Of course not. But the ones that have vowed to kill Americans all are.

If John Walker Lindh can be brainwashed to be a terrorist freedom fighter, anyone of any nationality can. It's the idea that causes terrorism, not the nationality.

[Guest JLuv0309]

Not only is this nothing new, but we GIVE out information voluntarily all the time. Ever shop at a radio shack and have to give out your zip code? A telephone number? Do you do it? Most people do...not even realizing they don't have to. This is just a step up under the pretext that it's for the good of the country with all this stuff going on. Truthfully I agree with the people who say this has probably been going on already, but NOW they're telling us about it. I swear, by the time I have grandchildren the United States really is going to be something out of Farenheit 451(for those of you who've read it)

[Guest DrTom]

It's the idea that causes terrorism, not the nationality.

Well, let's see...

 

Original WTC bombing in 1993: Arab males

Two US Embassy bombings in 1998: Arab males

USS Cole attack: Arab males

9/11 Attacks: Arab males

Bali attack last month: Arab males

 

Let me know when you sense a pattern.

[Guest Ravenbomb]

only One year, 7 months and 19 days before I can move to Canada

[Guest Blayde Starrfyre]

Well, let's see...

 

Original WTC bombing in 1993: Arab males

Two US Embassy bombings in 1998: Arab males

USS Cole attack: Arab males

9/11 Attacks: Arab males

Bali attack last month: Arab males

 

Let me know when you sense a pattern.

 

Well if the U.S. was backing Israel slaughtering Germans, if the U.S. was attempting to turn Germany into its own personal oil field, if the U.S. murdered thousands of German civilians for the actions of some 20 German terrorists, then I bet you'd see more German terrorists than Arabs. It just so happens that the U.S. supports Israel's repeated violations of UN orders to get out of Palestinian territory, that the U.S. has killed more civilians in Afghanistan than were killed on Sept. 11th, and that the U.S. is going after Saddam to get oil (if this were really about violating UN resolutions, Israel would have been destroyed by now).

 

My point is that terrorism will stop when the U.S. gets the hell out of the Middle East. I would rather live in a country not powered by oil than in a country where a psychotic hate monger like John Ashcroft can read my e-mail.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

only One year, 7 months and 19 days before I can move to Canada

And who said we wanted you?

[Guest bob_barron]

Well Canada has accepted me with open arms.

 

I guess it's the American currency that did the trick.

[Guest Ravenbomb]

And who said we wanted you?

who said I cared?

[Guest DrTom]

It just so happens that the U.S. supports Israel's repeated violations of UN orders to get out of Palestinian territory,

Palestine doesn't have any legitimate claim to that territory. They lost it in a war. Israel has offered them land in exchange for peace, but since Arafat would rather walk away from the bargaining table in cases like that than stop being a puppet for Islamic terrorism, the same shit keeps happening. Israel has every right to defend itself and its citizens from repeated terrorist attacks, and it's a testament to their patience that we can still talk about Palestinians in the present tense.

 

that the U.S. has killed more civilians in Afghanistan than were killed on Sept. 11th,

The difference is that many of those "civilians" were Al'Qaeda members and supporters, and Taliban members and supporters. They brought their fate on themselves, while our civilians were killed simply because they were Americans who worked in a certain skyscraper.

 

and that the U.S. is going after Saddam to get oil (if this were really about violating UN resolutions, Israel would have been destroyed by now).

We only get about 10% of our oil from the Middle East now. Your argument was specious in 1991, and it's simply ridiculous now.

 

None of the "points" you raised excuse terrorism. The fact is that Arab males have carried out repeated terrorist attacks against the USA for the last nine years. Why they did it doesn't really matter. All that should be done with evil is to destroy it, not talk to it, negotiate with it, and waste time analyzing it for motives.

 

Basically, all these points have bee raised before, and justifiably dismissed as poisonous moral relativism. You're not bringing anything new to the table by rehashing them months after they'd been put to rest.

[Guest Blayde Starrfyre]

Basically, all these points have bee raised before, and justifiably dismissed as poisonous moral relativism. You're not bringing anything new to the table by rehashing them months after they'd been put to rest.

 

I am not at all a moral relativist. I am not saying it is at all acceptable for Nigeria to stone a woman to death because it's part of the culture. That's moral relativism. Another example would be saying it is wrong for Al Qaeda to kill civilians because they worked in a certain office building but it is OK to kill civilians because they live in a certain country. You can say they were Al Qaeda supporters, it's impossible to prove, since dead men tell no tales. I remember, the BBC conducted an interview with a woman in Afghanistan whose husband and most of her family were killed by America. Her son went insane because of it. She was like "the Taliban was bad, but at least my family was alive." People in Afghanistan hated bin Laden, they wanted him out so the U.S. would stop bombing them. By Bush's logic, we should have bombed Washington DC to take out the sniper. You claim moral relativism is poisonous, well here's an absolute that you should agree with then: killing civilians, whether they be in the WTC or in Afghanistan, is evil.

 

We may get 10% of our oil from the Middle East, but imagine how that would change once a pro-U.S. regime is installed in Iraq. If anything, the fact that we only get 10% of our oil from the Middle East would support the idea that we are going to war for oil.

[Guest J*ingus]

We may get 10% of our oil from the Middle East, but imagine how that would change once a pro-U.S. regime is installed in Iraq. If anything, the fact that we only get 10% of our oil from the Middle East would support the idea that we are going to war for oil.

One problem with this theory: Iraq doesn't have NEARLY enough oil to support it. I mean, come on, it's only one country. We produce and refine far more oil here in the U.S. than the entire Middle East is capable of, and the same thing goes for Canada, Venezuala, and Russia. There's not enough oil there to go to all this expense and trouble.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

It's the idea that causes terrorism, not the nationality.

Well, let's see...

 

Original WTC bombing in 1993: Arab males

Two US Embassy bombings in 1998: Arab males

USS Cole attack: Arab males

9/11 Attacks: Arab males

Bali attack last month: Arab males

 

Let me know when you sense a pattern.

This is true, but you can do the same thing for any group you wish to profile, par example (courtesty local student paper Escrache!)

 

Take the Racial Profiling Quiz!

1. Who blew up the Oklahoma City Federal building killing 168 people?

a. a Muslim man between 18-40

b. David Hasselhoff

c. a white Christian male age 18-40

d. Teletubbies

 

2. Who committed over 12 different bombings throughout the US from 1979-1993 targeting universities, Airliners, and corporations?

a. Ted Turner

b. a white Christian male age 18-40

c. Japanese investment bankers

d. The Elks Lodge

 

3. Who bombed a health clinic in Birmingham Alabama, Centennial Olympic Park in Downtown Atlanta, several office buildings in the Atlanta area and other targets killing several and injuring over 150 innocent people?

a. a white Christian male age 18-40

b. Greek terrorist group November 17

c. radical Native American militants

d. Carson Daly

 

4. Who attempted to detonate 18 bombs in 5 states leaving behind a 150 mile radius of terror and anti-government propaganda?

a. Chicago's Rotary Club

b. Edward Said

c. a white Christian male age 18-40

d. Noam Chomsky

 

5. Who is responsible for dozens of clinic bombings in the US targeting doctors, nurses, patients, and gay men and women?

a. Public Citizen

b. The Saturn Cafe

c. Arthur Anderson

d. a white Christian male age 18-40

 

1. c - Timothy McVeigh

2. b - Ted Kazensky aka Unabomber

3. a - Eric Rudolf

4. c - John Helder

5. d - Christian fundamentalist groups

 

Yet nobody supports any profiling of white Christian males age 18-40...

[Guest bob_barron]

We don't know for sure that Eric Rudolph did the 96 Olympic Bombing since he is yet to be caught.

 

Also- I'm sure if you compare the death totals of 9.11 to those you listed- 9.11 would still have much more

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Also- I'm sure if you compare the death totals of 9.11 to those you listed- 9.11 would still have much more

Oh, that's definitely true. The point of that article (and the reason I quoted it) is simply to prove that Arabs aren't the only "type" capable of terrorism, and thus singling them out for all this government monitoring or assuming its OK for the government to monitor those of Arab descent "because they're terrorists" isn't right. Like I said earlier, anyone of any nationality is capable of terrorism. Obviously there are different scales involved, like you said, but if a "War on Terrorism" is expected to be taken even remotely seriously, it shouldn't be so biased.

[Guest J*ingus]

Can we at least agree that the vast majority of all terrorists are males between 18-40? That covers everyone I can think of, while not forcing old Jewish grandmothers to go through extra security screenings.

[Guest Blayde Starrfyre]

Also- I'm sure if you compare the death totals of 9.11 to those you listed- 9.11 would still have much more

Oh, that's definitely true. The point of that article (and the reason I quoted it) is simply to prove that Arabs aren't the only "type" capable of terrorism, and thus singling them out for all this government monitoring or assuming its OK for the government to monitor those of Arab descent "because they're terrorists" isn't right. Like I said earlier, anyone of any nationality is capable of terrorism. Obviously there are different scales involved, like you said, but if a "War on Terrorism" is expected to be taken even remotely seriously, it shouldn't be so biased.

Well if we were going off of scale here, then we would have already arrested Henry Kissinger, possibly the biggest terrorist in terms of number of deaths that the world has ever seen. The problem is the U.S. thinks terrorism with suicide bombings is unacceptable, but sees no problem with terrorism with napalm or through selling guns to monsterous dictatorships. People like Kissinger, Bush Sr., Reagan, and Ollie North are terrorists plain an simple, and have killed many times over how many died on 9/11. Take the plank out of your own eye, Bush.

[Guest J*ingus]

This argument has been tried in this folder before, and always gets shot down with amazing brutality. Quit now.

[Guest bob_barron]

Ummmm why can't this person try to defend their argument? Maybe they have some good points to make.

 

Just because SKBF made people with views like that bad doesn't mean no one else can try and make arguments that are anti-American

[Guest J*ingus]

Well sure he can try. But don't say I didn't warn him, especially if MikeSC stops by again.

[Guest Blayde Starrfyre]

Just because SKBF made people with views like that bad doesn't mean no one else can try and make arguments that are anti-American

 

Why does advocating bringing brutal murderers to justice make me anti-American? Henry Kissinger: behind the secret bombings of the neutral nations of Cambodia and Laos which killed a million innocent people (and that's not the highest estimate). He was behind the sale of arms to Indonesia, then turned a blind eye when Indonesia used those weapons to slaughter 200,000 East Timorese in violation of U.S. law (weapons can only be sold for self-defense). And much more, check out "The Trial of Henry Kissinger" by Christopher Hitchens, great read. Ollie North, Ronald Reagan, George Bush: involved in a scheme to sell weapons to Iran to fund the terrorist Contras.

 

For some reason, Americans think that terrorism can only be executed using suicide bombers or hijackings. Wrong. The Danish say that the world's first act of terrorism was when the British bombed the city of Copenhagen and set it on fire and then took more than a hundred ships from the Danish Navy Not for a war, but simply to intimidate the Danish because they were allied with Napoleon. Why is murdering 3000 innocent people at the WTC worse than murdering 1,000,000 innocent people in neutral nations with napalm?

[Guest DrTom]

Yet nobody supports any profiling of white Christian males age 18-40...

They're already profiled, genius. Any time a serial killer pops up, white males (not necessarily Christian, but white males) between 18 and 40 are the focus of the investigations. Ditto for serial rapists. The difference is, the whites don't bitch about it and boo-hoo about what an injustice the whole thing is. The simple fact is that profiling makes the job of law enforcement officials easier.

 

And yes, I've been the "victim" of racial profiling, too. As a white guy from the suburbs driving a fast car, I was in a part of town where that fit the profile of a heroin buyer. So I was stopped, and the cops asked me a few questions. No big deal, I didn't think anything was wrong with it, and I certainly didn't cry about how unfair it was.

 

We have ample evidence that Arab males from 18-40 tend to be terrorists. As I've said before, not all Arab Males are terrorists who have attacked the US recently, but all terrorists who have attacked the US recently are indeed Arab males. We know who we should be looking for, but the poison of political correctness keeps us from actually doing something about it.

[Guest DrTom]

The problem is the U.S. thinks terrorism with suicide bombings is unacceptable, but sees no problem with terrorism with napalm or through selling guns to monsterous dictatorships.

No one has ever said the US was perfect, that our hands are untainted with blood, or that we haven't made some bad decisions in terms of supporting certain people in the past. That does not change the fact that we are absolutely right in seeking justice against those who terrorized us on 9/11.

 

You claim not to be a moral relativist, then drag up the tired old moral relativist argument that America has done bad things, too, and that somehow excuses what's been done to us.

[Guest Blayde Starrfyre]

This is not a moral relativist argument. Again, I would say the moral relativist argument is that 9/11 was a crime but that America's homegrown high-level terrorists are innocent. I firmly believe that those responsible for 9/11 should be brought to justice; I also believe that American war criminals and terrorists should be brought to justice. I also don't believe that carpet bombing Afghanistan was the way to bring 9/11 perpetrators to justice, just as I would not support carpet bombing Washington, D.C. to catch the sniper.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Ummmm why can't this person try to defend their argument? Maybe they have some good points to make.

 

Just because SKBF made people with views like that bad doesn't mean no one else can try and make arguments that are anti-American

Not Anti-American, but Blame America.

 

How would you bring the Al Qaeda leaders to justice? Ask them politley to give up?

[Guest bob_barron]

I disagree with this person and all- I just didn't think it was right for Jingus to tell the person quit now.

[Guest EricMM]

I miss Marney

I miss F K Teale

I miss MikeTheSC

 

I miss the good ol days :(

[Guest Blayde Starrfyre]

I would like to point out how interesting it is that Bush has appointed Kissinger to head the 9/11 probe. He has now moved from appointing Cold War dinosaurs of the 80's to appointing Cold War dinosaurs of the 70's. But then again, no one would understand terrorism and wholesale slaughter of innocent lives better than America's own number one terrorist.