Now the gov't will be monitoring your purchases

[Guest Frank Zappa Mask]

from www.drudgereport.com

 

 

Pentagon to Track American Consumer Purchases

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thursday, November 21, 2002

By Major Garrett

 

 

WASHINGTON — A massive database that the government will use to monitor every purchase made by every American citizen is a necessary tool in the war on terror, the Pentagon said Wednesday.

 

 

 

 

 

Edward Aldridge, undersecretary of Acquisitions and Technology, told reporters that the Pentagon is developing a prototype database to seek "patterns indicative of terrorist activity." Aldridge said the database would collect and use software to analyze consumer purchases in hopes of catching terrorists before it's too late.

 

"The bottom line is this is an important research project to determine the feasibility of using certain transactions and events to discover and respond to terrorists before they act," he said.

 

Aldridge said the database, which he called another "tool" in the war on terror, would look for telltale signs of suspicious consumer behavior.

 

Examples he cited were: sudden and large cash withdrawals, one-way air or rail travel, rental car transactions and purchases of firearms, chemicals or agents that could be used to produce biological or chemical weapons.

 

It would also combine consumer information with visa records, passports, arrest records or reports of suspicious activity given to law enforcement or intelligence services.

 

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is home to the Pentagon's brightest thinkers -- the ones who built the Internet. DARPA will be in charge of trying to make the system work technically.

 

Rear Adm. John Poindexter, former national security adviser to President Reagan, is developing the database under the Total Information Awareness Program. Poindexter was convicted on five counts of misleading Congress and making false statements during the Iran-Contra investigation. Those convictions were later overturned, but critics note that his is a dubious resume for someone entrusted with so sensitive a task.

 

Aldridge said Poindexter will only "develop the tool, he will not be exercising the tool." He said Poindexter brought the database idea to the Pentagon and persuaded Aldridge and others to pursue it.

 

"John has a real passion for this project," Aldridge said.

 

TIAF's office logo is now one eye scanning the globe. The translation of the Latin motto: knowledge is power. Some say, possibly too much power. "What this is talking about is making us a nation of suspects and I am sorry, the United States citizens should not have to live in fear of their own government and that is exactly what this is going to turn out to be," said Chuck Pena, senior defense policy analyst at the Cato Institute.

 

Pena and others say the database is an even greater violation of privacy rights than Attorney General John Ashcroft's nixed proposal to turn postal workers and delivery men into government tipsters. No matter what protections Congress requires, Pena fears a database big enough and nimble enough to track the entire nation's spending habits is ripe for abuse.

 

"I don't think once you put something like this in place, you can't ever create enough checks and balances and oversight," Pena said.

 

But proponents say big business already has access to most of this data, but don't do anything with it to fight terrorism.

 

"I find it somewhat counter intuitive that people are not concerned that telemarketers and insurance companies can acquire this data but feel tremendous trepidation if a government ventures into this arena. To me it just smacks of paranoia," said David Rivkin, an attorney for Baker & Hostetler LLP.

 

The database is not yet ready and Aldridge said it will not be available for several years. Fake consumer data will be used in development of the database, he said.

 

When it's ready, Aldridge said individual privacy rights will be protected. But he could not explain how the data would be accessed. In some cases, specific warrants would give law enforcement agencies access, he said. But in other cases the database might flag suspicious activity absent a specific request or warrant, and that suspicious activity could well be relayed to law enforcement or intelligence agencies.

 

"I don't know what the scope of this is going to be," Aldridge said. "We are in a war on terrorism. We are trying to find out if this technology can work."

 

 

 

 

<<Again, a system designed to "thwart terrorism", but completely open to all kinds of terrible manipulation. If and how long before a purchase of Mao's Little Red Book, or a Free Mumia t-shirt, or fresh fruit or coffee grown organically gets you a little red marker next to your consumer file as "suspicious?" It seems like with each day that the old adage "It is a curse to live in interesting times" becomes more and more true....>>

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Yeah, they pretty much have right to do anything now.

 

Don't be surprised by this.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I always figured people knew what I was buying anyways. Just like they know what I do on the computer.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I'm curious to see if we can find any of the forum Republicans (or anyone else, I guess, but the GOPpy types are clearly more in faor of the current government) here to support this? Anyone?

 

Surely, there is not anyone, from any party, who could support such an invasion into personal privacy.

[Guest cynicalprofit]

Well I guess my plan of no one finding out that I ordered 50 porno dvds about midgets is shot all to hell.

 

A massive database that the government will use to monitor every purchase made by every American citizen is a necessary tool in the war on terror, the Pentagon said Wednesday.

I really dont see how this is a tool on stopping terrorism. I mean they're criminals because they are trying not to get caught, they probably dont make legal purchases. I dont see how they will monitor cash transactions, which I believe is how alot of terrorist work, unless they are going to require you to show valid id, which im willing to be a terrorist would have a fake of anyways, and record the name of the purchaser. All this will do is get a bunch of people in farming communities raided for purchasing cow poop and what not.

 

Also how is me or anyone buying a cd suppose to stop the terroist? I can except this if they monitor what people buy, but not recording every purchase. If a buy a cd, it should not be listed.

 

If a credit card is used to buy a certin list of items, ok, Ill live with this, but me buying porno isnt anyones business nor does it have anything to do with terrorism. Is next year 1984 or did I miss something?

 

And Im willing to bet if ou buy other things that rasies any sort of illegal activities suspcion(sp), they will come after you, like buying growing material for pot.

 

Examples he cited were: sudden and large cash withdrawals, one-way air or rail travel, rental car transactions and purchases of firearms, chemicals or agents that could be used to produce biological or chemical weapons.

Sounds like business men across amerca better watch out. And if i was a terrorist, I dont they would take visa in purchase of things used to make biological weapons. And dont you need papers to buy alot of those things?

 

"John has a real passion for this project," Aldridge said.

IE when you mention it to him he gets a chubby in his pants.

 

This is a really scarry concept, hackers breaking in and finding out about you, people misusing the information, its not a pretty picture if something was to go wrong.

 

"I find it somewhat counter intuitive that people are not concerned that telemarketers and insurance companies can acquire this data but feel tremendous trepidation if a government ventures into this arena. To me it just smacks of paranoia," said David Rivkin, an attorney for Baker & Hostetler LLP.

Thats because telemarketers and insurance companies cant burst into your house with guns drawn, you fucking assclown.

 

But in other cases the database might flag suspicious activity absent a specific request or warrant, and that suspicious activity could well be relayed to law enforcement or intelligence agencies.

So without any real proof other then you bought something, no investigation, no real probably cause, it can have cops sent to your house, I cant even speak, Im truly in a state of shock of how horribly evil this.

[Guest hardyz1]

:::is pissed:::

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Rear Adm. John Poindexter, former national security adviser to President Reagan, is developing the database under the Total Information Awareness Program. Poindexter was convicted on five counts of misleading Congress and making false statements during the Iran-Contra investigation. Those convictions were later overturned, but critics note that his is a dubious resume for someone entrusted with so sensitive a task.

 

Just wanted to point this out to anyone who didn't see it. He got off on a techicality, not because he was innocent.

 

Big Brother is watching us, guys. Say "Hi" to the government

[Guest NoCalMike]

Yah and who wants to bet that out transaction information will be sold to every major advertising company in order to more selectively sell and send junk mail to our houses. This is PURE GARBAGE.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

They'll probably do that to the people who randomly yell "BOMB!!!" into the phone to piss them off

[Guest RobJohnstone]

well good thing I am not a big advocate of buying things with a credit card. I will think twice before I buy certain books. They may just put me on the subversive list

 

--Rob

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Are you nuts? They love someone like you! Buy all the right-wing books you want!

 

Kotzenjunge

Says People Should Buy Bibles To Avoid Suspicion

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

I heard about this yesterday. I'm not big on privacy (anyone who wants info on you will get it no matter what) but how does this fight terrorism? With the billions of transactions that go on every day in a nation of 300+ million, we're supposed to find a tiny handfull of terrorists with this?!?!

 

Whatever...

[Guest DrTom]

... and purchases of firearms, chemicals or agents that could be used to produce biological or chemical weapons.

Hey, I just bought ammonia and chlorine bleach at the store.

 

OMG I'M MAKING PHOSGENE GAS, I'M A TERRORIST~!!!

 

Ahem.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

...and since they're monitering your internet activity, they'll be reading your message board posts, too.

 

Tom, you're fucked

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Think Osama had any idea the effects of the attacks would go this far? I mean, this is only the beginning, but it's already alarming.

 

Kotzenjunge

If There's a Revolution, I'M AT THE HEAD OF THE MOB!

[Guest cynicalprofit]

Kotzenjunge

If There's a Revolution, I'M AT THE HEAD OF THE MOB!

Ill be in the middle so when the guys up front get killed while killing the enemies, I can take over when everyone up front is dead.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I'm all for it if they only look at people who have suspected ties to terrorist groups. Anyone else is just a big waste of time.

[Guest TJH]

Am I the only one who feels that this is going to come round and bite the GOP in the BUTT?

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Probably not, seeing how voters as a whole are mindless cattle...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

...and since this is probably the last we'll hear about it...

[Guest Blayde Starrfyre]

Examples he cited were: sudden and large cash withdrawals, one-way air or rail travel

 

OK, so when I take my money out of the bank and buy a one-way ticket to Denmark to escape this Orwellian nightmare, I will be red-flagged as a terrorist. Who wants to bet that other red-flagged pruchases will include those "No Iraq War" signs, those Bush misspeak calendars, and anything with a peace symbol on it?

[Guest Sturgis]

This is why I'm a Libertarian our government are a bunch of fucking communists that try to run our lives and not care what our founding fathers did to make sure shit like this wouldn't happen.

 

GOD I HATE THIS FUCKING COUNTRY

[Guest bob_barron]

How is monitoring our purchases a form of communism?

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Examples he cited were: sudden and large cash withdrawals, one-way air or rail travel

 

Isn't that what someone planning a terrorist attack would do?

[Guest DrTom]

Isn't that what someone planning a terrorist attack would do?

It's also what someone moving across the country to start a new life might do. If I decide to quit my job and move from MD to CA, take all my money out of the bank, and buy a one-way ticket to CA to start over, tabla rasa, I shouldn't have to be questioned by the FBI or whomever would handle this.

 

It disgusts me how many people get scared and immediately run to trade their freedoms for a false sense of security. Grow a spine, people: you're Americans for fuck's sake, and Americans don't believe the government should be watching over your shoulder every move you make.

[Guest TJH]

Why doesn't someone do little experiment for us?

 

Buy 1 Koran, 1 box cutter, and 1 one way ticket from a destination in the US, and see what happens.

[Guest Blayde Starrfyre]

I think that someone definitely needs to do that experiment, but it needs to be like an 80 year old Jewish guy just to make sure the FBI looks like complete boneheads when they arrest him.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

It's also what someone moving across the country to start a new life might do. If I decide to quit my job and move from MD to CA, take all my money out of the bank, and buy a one-way ticket to CA to start over, tabla rasa, I shouldn't have to be questioned by the FBI or whomever would handle this.

That's true. But what makes you think they won't know about you moving cross country and taking all your money out of the bank, even before this is system is put into place? Getting people's personal info isn't very difficult.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

"John has a real passion for this project," Aldridge said.

 

Anyone suprised? Anyone?

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Is this officially going to happen, or is there just talk that it might happen?