Guest EricMM Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 to the top of the ME level. It is my perception that the WWE does not want anyone with a off the top finisher main eventing. Sure you get Benoit's headbutt, but his crossface is pushed heavier. And Guerreros froggy splash is totally gone. RVD was CERTAINLY not pushed, he made his own way to the top. I'm asking, when was the last time a Wrestler came in with an off the top move, and was PUSHED to the top, and then KEPT that move, unlike say Test. I just get the feeling that the WWE doesn't want serious money jumping off the top rope.
Guest Zero_Cool Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Marc Mero? He was going to be pushed heavily until the injuries.
Guest razazteca Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Legion of Doom? during the 1st run in WWF
Guest Brian Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Guerrero's frog splash is gone? It's still his primary move, the El Paso Lasso is just a need be move. When he needs it, it's there. He still spends more time working to the frog splash.
Guest Ravenbomb Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 they gave Val Venis a fairly decent push, didn't they? He had the Money Shot
ChrisMWaters Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 I think the reason that they don't push people to the top with flying finishers that much is for fear of having a person land wrong and severely injuring themselves. That being said...if RVD wins the World TItle this Monday, he will be the most recent person with a flying finisher to be pushed heavilly.
Guest art_vandelay Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 I think it's more of a coincidence than anything, but guys with top-rope finishers are traditionally smaller, and when was the last time they pushed a smaller guy to the top?
Guest Sakura Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Maybe it's just because not a lot of guys HAVE a flying move.
Guest BA_Baracus Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Uhm... ...RVD has pinned the Rock, Austin, HHH and the Undertaker with the 5-star Frog Splash. Plus I can't remember anyone ever kicking out of it. I'd say the constitutes pushing a flying finisher.
Guest EricMM Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 But Test doesn't do the elbow anymore. He's changed it for the test drive, or the pump handle slam, or something. I wouldn't say Venis is anywhere near the ME level. I would say that RVD has not been pushed to the ME level. His finish is over, but it doesn't seem like they're willing to rely on him to carry the business you know? I'll wager that if Eddy gets the belt, it won't be because he hit the Frog Splash, in fact if he ever hits that move very often ever again (as a finish) I'll be suprised. It just seems to me that vince prefers safer moves. It's one thing to ban piledrivers, but another to limit top rope moves.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Uhm... ...RVD has pinned the Rock, Austin, HHH and the Undertaker with the 5-star Frog Splash. Plus I can't remember anyone ever kicking out of it. I'd say the constitutes pushing a flying finisher. Not even the Undertaker kicked out of the 5-Star, he just put his foot on the ropes. I think the only time it happened, it took an *obscenely* long ref bump.
TheFranchise Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Yeah, that was part of the triple threat title match with triple h and someone else, i can't remember that (it's sunday) but they definatly kicked out.
Guest job squad Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 I think it's more of a coincidence than anything, but guys with top-rope finishers are traditionally smaller, and when was the last time they pushed a smaller guy to the top? ok what about rock and hbk
Guest Anglesault Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Not even the Undertaker kicked out of the 5-Star, he just put his foot on the ropes. I thought that was for Rolling Thunder.
Guest Anglesault Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 I think it's more of a coincidence than anything, but guys with top-rope finishers are traditionally smaller, and when was the last time they pushed a smaller guy to the top? ok what about rock and hbk Rock is 6'5
TheFranchise Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 i guess the last time they REALLY pushed a smaller guy was Bret Hart, and he was 6 foot 1.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Not even the Undertaker kicked out of the 5-Star, he just put his foot on the ropes. I thought that was for Rolling Thunder. No he "powered out" of Rolling Thunder. It *may* have been the Split-Legged Moonsault in another match, but for their first match it was definatly the 5-Star.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 i guess the last time they REALLY pushed a smaller guy was Bret Hart, and he was 6 foot 1. Hart was 5'11.
Guest Ram Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 And we all know what happened to him.
Guest saturnmark4life Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 i hate the fact no one kicks out of the five star. I guess they have to keep him strong just in case, but everyone kicks out of booker's goddamn moves and at least he can sell if need be. Sorry, that was pointless, but I FUCKING HATE RVD SO MUCH.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 i hate the fact no one kicks out of the five star. I guess they have to keep him strong just in case, but everyone kicks out of booker's goddamn moves and at least he can sell if need be. Sorry, that was pointless, but I FUCKING HATE RVD SO MUCH. At least the 5-Star looks like it hurts. I mean RVD sells it like his ribs are broken so how bad is it for the other guy? Booker's axe kick looks like a little tap.
Guest Quik Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 I wonder if Booker robbed that Burger King with an axe kick? Anyway, I like top rope moves, but I don't like them as finishers. Too much work to get them set up, because you need to knock them down, make sure they're beat up enough to stay down, climb the ropes, set yourself, jump and land on them. This opposed to something like a diamond cutter, where you just kinda do it when you get the chance.
Guest raptor Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 I usually agree with you, Quik, but I don't think the set-up hurts the Five-Star. RVD does it pretty quickly, so the opponent doesn't really have to lie on the mat for too long.
Guest SP-1 Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 I would say that RVD has not been pushed to the ME level. His finish is over, but it doesn't seem like they're willing to rely on him to carry the business you know? That's just being overly cynical, dude. I mean, let's think about this. . . He had a feud, regardless of how it ended, with Triple H, no? He Main Evented on of the BIG FIVE PPV's, SURVIVOR SERIES, in a high profile match with SHAWN MICHAELS, TRIPLE H, and CHRIS JERICHO. A legend, RAW's top guy as far as pushes go, and the first UNDISPITED CHAMPION, EVER. And tomorrow night, right here in CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA (cheap pop!), he will Main Event with Shawn Michaels for the RAW Heavyweight Championship. Winning the title does not constitute a push to the Main Event. BEING in the Main Event several times constitutes a push, however small or large, to the Main Event. He's there, dude. He just isn't winning like all the smarks want him to just yet. -SP
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 He's in the Main Event yes, but he isn't being pushed. He was placed in the Main Event because the fans demanded it. However since being placed in the main event he has been made to look like a loser. He loses all the time, and the small victories he gains are just that...small. Eventually if he continues to lose it won't matter how impressive his move set is, because the fans will stop considering him a main event caliber wrestler and he will be treated accordingly by Vince.
Guest dreamer420 Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Uhm... ...RVD has pinned the Rock, Austin, HHH and the Undertaker with the 5-star Frog Splash. Plus I can't remember anyone ever kicking out of it. I'd say the constitutes pushing a flying finisher. Not even the Undertaker kicked out of the 5-Star, he just put his foot on the ropes. I think the only time it happened, it took an *obscenely* long ref bump. I've seen Jerry Lynn pretty much no sell the move and kick out of it.
Guest SP-1 Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 Well, yes. You have a point there. Fans love the Brooklyn Brawler, he amazingly gets a decent reaction whenever he's shown up recently, but he's still not quite a Main Eventer. It would suck horribly for RVD to wind up becoming the next Brawler or something. I think he's there for a reason, though. I think that once Vince gets things in order backstage (whenever that may be), we're going to see RVD really make it. Provided Vince grows a set and starts being the boss again, in my opinion, anytime soon.
Guest Brian Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 You mean the scissors kick. The axe kick he actually comes down, the scissors his second leg comes up and clips the guy from under.
Guest The Notorious CRD Posted November 24, 2002 Report Posted November 24, 2002 They weren't used for finishers but HBK busts out a flying elbow and the occasional moonsault.
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