I'm sorry, but I have to post this...

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, that can kill a match.

[Guest Incandenza]

RVD repeatedly sold the crossface as if it were a resthold and not the painful submission move it's suppose to be. He never bothered to sell the arm--which Benoit basically destroyed--either. Have the RVD defenders ever stopped to think that maybe the Summerslam crowd would've been into the match more if he did more than lay there like a slug in between hitting his two or three usual spots?

[Guest Anglesault]

So what was worse. RVD no selling everything or Edge totally destroying ten minutes of arm work with one move (Both in the same night)

[Guest Incandenza]

Haven't we been over this before? Edge's no-sell at the end of the match with Eddy was annoying, and, at any other PPV, probably would've really pissed me off. However, later that night, RVD couldn't be bothered to sell AT ALL. At least Edge did it for 10 of the 11 minutes, AND it would make up for it be improving his selling in later matches. RVD's still coasting, as far as I can tell.

[Guest Anglesault]

Haven't we been over this before?

Not with me...

 

Edge's no-sell at the end of the match with Eddy was annoying, and, at any other PPV, probably would've really pissed me off. However, later that night, RVD couldn't be bothered to sell AT ALL.

 

Like I said, I haven't seen either match, so I can't really pass judgment. But I'm a firm believer in a finish can ruin a match, and that would have killed it for me.

[Guest Brian]

And then, RVD missed most of the opportunities Benoit had laid out for him to make a comeback and refused to build toward his own, so it looked like Benoit was chain submitting a dummy. He didn't know how to approach the match to say the least. If he had spent time to sell the pain better and the effectiveness of the holds, the crowd probably would have bought it. If he had built to his own escapes, fought out valiantly, then got caught, building to his streaks of offense, the crowd would have bought the submissions. If they felt he was going to lose in the crossface, if RVD truly looked like he was dying and/or couldn't escape, the crowd would have bought it.

[Guest Anglesault]

I have a question. In the Raw match where Benoit won the belt, RVD sat in the crossface and made funny faces. Was it the same thing?

[Guest Incandenza]

I remember being drunk during that Raw match, so I can't say.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

RVD repeatedly sold the crossface as if it were a resthold and not the painful submission move it's suppose to be. He never bothered to sell the arm--which Benoit basically destroyed--either. Have the RVD defenders ever stopped to think that maybe the Summerslam crowd would've been into the match more if he did more than lay there like a slug in between hitting his two or three usual spots?

That's not true. Just because RVD didn't go into convulsions, doesn't mean he no-sold it. He looked like he was in pain, that's enough.

 

 

He did no-sell a lot of the arm work, but not all.

[Guest AM The Kid]

To me Christian and Lance are pathetic wrestlers who don't deserve to be at WWE PPVs.

 

 

Noooo, you're wrong!!!!

[Guest Loss4Words]

Agreed with Brian.

 

And as much as I like RVD, I really don't think he's a long term answer to the WWE's woes. He wrestles a style that caters to those with short attention spans, meaning there's never any long term selling and he never seems to display hatred or anger or rage. He does occasionally, but usually only if he's matched up with a strong heel.

 

RVD is over. But RVD is not over because anyone cares about him. He is over because his catchphrases are fun to say and he does cool moves. There's not exactly a huge rally behind his character. The fans don't get into his comebacks. He's the type of guy that's going to be wrestling the same type of match and showing the same type of vulnerability, or lack thereof, whether he's in the opening match or the main event. So if RVD has the belt, how does that change things? What has been proven? Before RVD is *ever* ready to be world champion of anything, he needs to alter his style -- not completely, but where it fits within the context of storylines. Right now, we should be seeing a more focused, aggressive RVD who wants the world title more than anything in the world and is willing to do just about anything to get it.

 

This is not all RVD's fault. This in large part booking apathy. But RVD could still stand to polish up his selling quite a bit, which is my top gripe with him.

 

Unfortunately, it's hard to say who the long-term answer is to the WWE's woes. Brock Lesnar is unproven. Kurt Angle is the guy if he sticks around, but is he going to train for the Olympics or is he finally going to accept the fact that he's a pro wrestler now and get over his past? Eddy Guerrero has been on a roll all year, but his demons have conquered him many times in the past when it seemed like all was well. Chris Benoit is still awesome, but he's not the type of guy that needs to be positioned as the WWE flag bearer and his health is becoming a concern for me personally. Booker T is in his late 30's and the time to push him is RIGHT NOW or it's going to be too late to get any real mileage out of it. Chris Jericho probably isn't going anywhere, but he's been victimized by bad booking and politics to a point where I don't know that he can be valuable anymore as a top guy, regardless of how talented he is. Edge seems likely since he's a homegrown talent and he's getting reasonably over, but has he really found his niche yet? And how long will it take for him to get there, if ever?

 

I wish you could point to one guy and call him the future of the WWE, but currently, it's just not to be.

[Guest bob_barron]

We're still talking about Summerslam??

 

I watched RVD v. Benoit again and once again RVD sold the crossface. I don't get this: sold it like a rest sold shit or whatever.

 

The match still kicked ass on second viewing.

 

With Eddy v. Edge- yes Edge did muck up at the end but they ended up having three other good matches with each other so I think all is forgiven

[Guest Steve J. Rogers]

For me what makes it funny is the fact the guy says "Summerslam is my favourite PPV of the summer!"

Err, I understand the ironic humor in the play on words, but KOR, Vengence and depending on the date Judgement Day and Unforgiven are summer time PPVs with SummerSlam though the Wrestlemania of the period (depending on how you break down the WWE year)

 

Personally I always thought of SummerSlams as the second biggest PPV of the year for the WWE

 

Steve

[Guest raptor]

I actually liked Benoit/RVD. I haven't seen it since, but when I was in the moment I was really into it and don't remember the no selling. And this is from a guy who likes submission wrestling.

[Guest Brian]

"Unfortunately, it's hard to say who the long-term answer is to the WWE's woes. Brock Lesnar is unproven."

 

I think you could say that early on in his reign but right now he's doing fine. He's not really a draw, but if you compare hard numbers in terms of revenue, the WWE actually made more money.

 

"Kurt Angle is the guy if he sticks around, but is he going to train for the Olympics or is he finally going to accept the fact that he's a pro wrestler now and get over his past?"

 

I still think they can pull off the Angle face trun properly and establish him as a sympathetic character but that probably won't translate to Brock/Angle without Brock being heel.

 

"Eddy Guerrero has been on a roll all year, but his demons have conquered him many times in the past when it seemed like all was well."

 

I'm not as worried about Eddy now, especially with the guys he's traveling with.

 

"Chris Benoit is still awesome, but he's not the type of guy that needs to be positioned as the WWE flag bearer and his health is becoming a concern for me personally."

 

Benoit's never been a flag bearer, but he's always a great supporting cast guy. Great matches, a ring general.

 

"Booker T is in his late 30's and the time to push him is RIGHT NOW or it's going to be too late to get any real mileage out of it."

 

They need to establish him and they need to make him credible. He has zero big wins. He has no momentum. Put the title on Jericho, build to Booker/Jericho showdown at WrestleMania.

 

"Chris Jericho probably isn't going anywhere, but he's been victimized by bad booking and politics to a point where I don't know that he can be valuable anymore as a top guy, regardless of how talented he is."

 

I think Jericho can still be salvaged with a face turn. He's got nothing as a heel and most of his character is still geared toward being a fcae.

 

"Edge seems likely since he's a homegrown talent and he's getting reasonably over, but has he really found his niche yet? And how long will it take for him to get there, if ever?"

 

It's take too long already IMO.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

The funniest part was the proof that marks and smarks agree on one thing:

 

Test doesn't belong on ppv.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

There are a lot of people that don't belong on PPV. (Big Show, anyone?)

 

I never thought Test was that bad, but eh.

[Guest Incandenza]

The Test line doesn't surprise me. Here's why:

 

1. Most of the people at live shows are marks.

2. The crowd sits on their hands whenever Test is in the ring.

3. Therefore, Test is not over with the marks.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

The worst fear of the IWC will come about.

 

Due to the "Testicles" line, Test will be over..and popular..with the marks.

 

All hell will break loose, and the sky will fall.

 

Watch.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Are you a Testicle?

[Guest Incandenza]

His new haircut will also get him over. Lord knows being the doppelganger of Kevin Nash is what was holding him down.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Personally I always thought of SummerSlams as the second biggest PPV of the year for the WWE

Eeeh, I feel that Royal Rumble is a bit more important than Summerslam.

 

You can have forgettable Summerslams (1995 anyone?), but rarely can you have a forgettable Royal Rumble.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Not really, just the resident Prophet of Doom.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Heh, I just checked Shopzone, and Benoit's UGLY Wolverine t-shirt, which I wouldn't be caught dead in, is outranking the Testicles t-shirt.

 

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Shopzone? I'm not even going to go there.

 

Too many weird things happening to be legit.

[Guest Anglesault]

If Test starts to get over, I will hire GHAST~! to kill each and every guy cheering him.