Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 5, 2002 YOU STUPID FUCKS! GREAT FUCKING IDEA, YOU ASSHOLE NITWIT BALD PIECE OF SHIT, HEYMAN. FEED ANGLE TO BIG SHOW SO WHEN BROCK BEATS, IT WILL LOOK THAT MUCH BETTER FOR BROCK FOR YOUR BIG LESNAR/STEINER SHOWDOWN, RIGHT? Fuck this company and it's bullshit ideas, I'm through. We knew that was coming But seriously.... this time we needed it. What makes you think Heyman's responsible, AS? He's been pushing for Angle and Benoit for quite a while now. Sure, he has to battle through the bullshit of a complete assbackwards booking team, but I don't think he really wanted to see this either. He's been pushing for Benoit. I don't know if he likes Angle. And hasn't it been reported that Heyman is involved heavily with his own/Show-Brock feud/Brock face turn intertwined storylines? What do you call this? And he is the main write on SD! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted December 5, 2002 YOU STUPID FUCKS! GREAT FUCKING IDEA, YOU ASSHOLE NITWIT BALD PIECE OF SHIT, HEYMAN. FEED ANGLE TO BIG SHOW SO WHEN BROCK BEATS, IT WILL LOOK THAT MUCH BETTER FOR BROCK FOR YOUR BIG LESNAR/STEINER SHOWDOWN, RIGHT? Fuck this company and it's bullshit ideas, I'm through. We knew that was coming But seriously.... this time we needed it. What makes you think Heyman's responsible, AS? He's been pushing for Angle and Benoit for quite a while now. Sure, he has to battle through the bullshit of a complete assbackwards booking team, but I don't think he really wanted to see this either. He's been pushing for Benoit. I don't know if he likes Angle. And hasn't it been reported that Heyman is involved heavily with his own/Show-Brock feud/Brock face turn intertwined storylines? What do you call this? And he is the main write on SD! Heyman hasn't got supreme power on SD. Vince and his brain(less) trust run things, and Steph of course has a major voice in things. He HAS to do as he's told, which is why instead of Benoit they plugged THE MOST USELESS PERSON ON THE ROSTER instead of Benoit or Angle. I think I remember it being an "or" question, but his idea was vetoed. So if Vince wants Show/Angle, damnit he's getting Show/Angle, because Vince said so. Not a fucking thing Paul can do about it. And on the same token, I suppose JR got in Vince's ear this week. And what Vince says goes... You going to tell me that Paul wanted Hugh Morrus and Albert pushes, too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted December 5, 2002 Well, that's what I thought SummerSlam with as a part of there being no real conclusion. The screwiness, I could deal with as it was part of Austin's character. But with no climatic point, it hurts it. As for me, I'd look at Brock vs. Angle as the coming of the new era. Here's Brock, this big tall hoss with atheltic powess, defending against Angle, the breed of wrestler that has never gotten past the ceiling. So their match should be a total deconstruction of the WWE style. This is great actually because Brock doesn't really throw punches and I'm assuming he control alot of the match. Also, I'm assuming the match is set as Angle being a little older, a little further off his amateur training, and the underdog, a quick moving wrestler. Brock assumes the role of the giant, using power and dismantling Angle. This should look legit; weigh-ins, press conferences, the whole nine. Make it seem really important. Mention Angle pulling from the Olympics to get the title. The match commercials would focus on seperate things: one general hype up with each guy talking giving brief little exerpts morphed into each other about their past, their WWE careers, each saying it's their belt, and ending with them saying their names and a WrestleMania XIX logo. The second focused on their amateur careers. A third being their training like the Rock/Brock videos. A fourth melding together their moves: F-5/AngleSlam, Shooting Star Press/AngleSault, and AngleLock/Bearhug. In the weeks building up, I'm assuming Heyman is chasing the belt to get back at Brock. Have Angle refuse Heyman's offer to manage. Heyman send Rhyno to gore Angle, setting up the ribs and furthering Angle's underdog status. As for the match, they start up and lock-up and immediately get to the ground. The idea is that in the first leg of mat work Brock is established as the power guy, stretching out Angle and tiring him to work down his speed. Second leg, Brock tries to power through it again but Angle's speed overcomes for a brief moment allowing him some control and eventually an escape. Third leg, Angle seizes control mid-way through and gets to pull out the quicker mat work and movements (assuming he doesn't blow up), reversals and such. Establish the anklelock and bearhug each being dire situations early by having them applied near the ropes, saving the trouble for later. Slowly work their way up using chain sequences with Brock occasionally bringing the match back down to the ground where he established a lot of control and dictate the pace. Work in a hot segment and finally have them hit the ropes (some fifteen-twenty minutes in), and work it back into the mat with Brock. Pinfall reversal sequence as Angle tries to use his speed and back to the mat. Again up and Angle exerpts more control, and rather to fight it down Brock stays up. F-5 and AngleSlam trade-offs, quick reveral sequences, and eventually this all builds up to their top ropes moves. Both guys kick out. Back to the mat, as Brock works the ribs and tries to dictate the match. Big moves, lots of nearfalls, match gets more climatic. Bearhug reversed to ankleock finishes with the tap. Bearhug works fine if the victim is working it and the applyee knows how to mix in offense in between. Brock showed decent enough strength in one department working in the pin attempts and giving a little work to pace it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 5, 2002 Brock assumes the role of the giant, using power and dismantling Angle If you are trying to make me optimistic about this match, "assuming the role of the giant" was a bad choice of words. I'm picturing Bundy/Hogan here. How would one reverse a bearhug to an ankle lock? You have to remember something about the bearhug. Whatever you want to call it, it is, at it's core, a very boring rest hold. It really drags the match to a halt, one of the reasons why I think it generally doesn't last long in most matches. You would have to find a way to make it exciting, and pins really don't do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted December 5, 2002 I don't know. In the Rock match, because of how he handled Hogan, those pins really came out well. Basically, it's part of an amateur technique with a waistlock. You'd work your way up, get enough room to pop the hold with your hips. And then for the rest, Angle would fluidly go from the break toa straight roll (like Shamrock did with the Rock in '98), grab the leg as he pulls through, and end up in sitting position with Brock outstretched. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 5, 2002 I don't know. In the Rock match, because of how he handled Hogan, those pins really came out well. I don't know. If they had to do the boring bearhug spot, I'd make it so Angle was trying various reversals the whole time and Brock keeps getting the upperhand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted December 5, 2002 "This has the stink of Stephanie MchMahon's writing all over it." - Someone in this thread who I don't have the energy to search for again. Ok, so we get hot-shot booking of Angle in to the main event by beating the same guys he's beaten a thousand times before, a lesbian storyline, and this is supposed to be Stephanie's brand of crap? Sorry, but if, in the face of all these horrible decisions (and many of them the same that Heyman made in ECW), people STILL want to claim that the man is the best mind in wrestling, the last saving grace, yadda yadda yadda, well, I really can't say anything but wake up and smell the shitty TV. This looks like one of the worst-booked WWE shows in recent memory. That includes Raw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MarvinisaLunatic Report post Posted December 5, 2002 - Albert def. Rey Mysterio. Rey gets in some early offense and then it got ugly. Favorite Sign - ALBERT IS LOOSE CALL THE ZOO is front and center ringside... - Backstage, Dawn Marie talks to Torrie Wilson and gives her the hotel keycard. - Stephanie McMahon next week Steiner will sign, blah blah.. - Crash Holly def. Jamie Noble. Nidia does commentary for about 2 minutesuntil she gets pissed at Tazz for asking about Nunzio who is a bad dude or something. Crash wins with the Crash Landing(?) which is a pretty awesome move.. - Chris Benoit Interview - really cool I suppose.. - Bill DeMott def. Funaki. BAH! -Eddy and Chavo backstage... - Brock Interview. Then Show and Heyman come out. Waste of time... - Raw Retro: Shane buys WCW. All the WWF Logos are blurred out too.. - Billy Kidman def. Chavo Guerrero to retain the WWE Cruiserweight title. Ok match... - Edge interview in the back, albert attacks Edge.. - Hip Hop Challenge: Funny segment, Tazz puts the Tazzmission on Cena, which got a huge pop. - Kurt Angle def. Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero & Edge in a fatal fourway to become the #1 Contender. 3 Segments! 1) Edge comes down to the ring and gets attacked and leaves. Commercial Break. 2) Angle/Benoit/Eddy come down, Edge comes back out. Match progresses..Eddy gets eliminated, Benoit gets eliminated..Commercial Break. 3)Edge vs Angle..Angle wins. BTW, I hadn't noticed it, but Angle is no wearing an Austin kneebrace on his right knee. OMG! Austin vs Angle at WRESTLEMANIA! Anyway, decent match although it got dragged on through 2 commercial breaks so Im guessing the actual match wasn't as long as it seemed. Still a decent match. Edge sells the knee pretty well for Edge selling an injury..Afterwards Big Show beats up Angle.. Right after the main event finished, they showed Torrie with a hotel keycard enter the room with Dawn in it, after a few looks, Torrie went to leave. But Dawn says something about her not loving her dad and Torrie went back and stood next to Dawn as the show ended. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted December 5, 2002 Isn't bringing Austin in and having Angle job to him also not helping Angle? Or are you assuming (hahahahah) that Austin is going to put him over? niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 5, 2002 Isn't bringing Austin in and having Angle job to him also not helping Angle? Or are you assuming (hahahahah) that Austin is going to put him over? niko No, I'm assuming it will be a great match Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 5, 2002 BTW, I hadn't noticed it, but Angle is no wearing an Austin kneebrace on his right knee. OMG! Austin vs Angle at WRESTLEMANIA! YES! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted December 5, 2002 AS, What would be wrong with Austin vs Benoit at WM. That's who Austin was reportley supposed to fued with before he left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted December 5, 2002 "This has the stink of Stephanie MchMahon's writing all over it." - Someone in this thread who I don't have the energy to search for again. Ok, so we get hot-shot booking of Angle in to the main event by beating the same guys he's beaten a thousand times before, a lesbian storyline, and this is supposed to be Stephanie's brand of crap? Sorry, but if, in the face of all these horrible decisions (and many of them the same that Heyman made in ECW), people STILL want to claim that the man is the best mind in wrestling, the last saving grace, yadda yadda yadda, well, I really can't say anything but wake up and smell the shitty TV. This looks like one of the worst-booked WWE shows in recent memory. That includes Raw. If the main event is riddling with no-selling and gratituitous table spots, sure. I'll blame Heyman. However, I seem to recall Angle being massively over and putting on several great matches. And when the hell has Stephanie wanted to massively push a good, over wrestler? And just for the lesbian aspect isn't a reason to think Heyman's involved. Did he bring us the HLA crap on Raw? No. And it actually fit in when he did it, and didn't just come out of left field in a horribly boring, soap-opera angle where some crusty father of one of the women was trying to get laid. A lot of guys seem excited over it here, so maybe it'll turn out well. I still don't care for it though. Albert and Hugh Morrus pushes--that sounds more like JR's influence. However, it doesn't benefit you at all to say two things, then act as if you had the body of evidence that the OJ Simpson prosecuting team had. And I'm well aware of the fact that Heyman has, and will fuck up. Alas, in comparison to the rest of the booking team, even if you hate him he's the one of the few who has an iota of sense and actually gives a shit. He brought us the Dudleyz. WWE booking team gave us Dudleyz giving diving headbutts to the nuts while ripping off a beer commercial, and bringing us Ass Cream. Heyman gave Benoit, Eddy, several luchadores, and RVD their big starts in the US while pushing them heavily. WWE booking team gave Eddy a stereotype gimmick, has cruisers jobbing to ALBERT, and teased RVD's big push nearly half a dozen times. WWE booking team gave Big Show and Kane the WWE Titles. Heyman gave...well, Justin Credible and Rhino the ECW World Heavyweight Title--okay, like I said, he fucks up a lot, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 5, 2002 AS, What would be wrong with Austin vs Benoit at WM. That's who Austin was reportley supposed to fued with before he left. Austin/Benoit would be a great match. But unless they can bring in Bret Hart or someone to face Angle, he doesn't have a great match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the pinjockey Report post Posted December 5, 2002 - Raw Retro: Shane buys WCW. All the WWF Logos are blurred out too.. I know this is beating a dead horse but why is this on SD. Raw is going to celebrate a landmark show SD should not be giving a shit. I don't care about this paid for by Raw or SD crap either that is just a lazy cop-out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted December 6, 2002 Brock vs. Kurt could be a great match. Did you miss my post earlier? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 6, 2002 Brock vs. Kurt could be a great match. Did you miss my post earlier? Once you said it could beat Austin/Angle at Summerslam, I kind of disregarded it and made token replies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted December 6, 2002 You kind of disregard most of my posts as it applies to Brock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 6, 2002 You kind of disregard most of my posts as it applies to Brock. Well, when you compare him to Vader, yeah. And when you try to justify him getting the belt over Angle/Guererro/Benoit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted December 6, 2002 Nobody has ever tried to justify him getting the belt over those guys. But what's happened has happened, and now you have to have someone launch themself up using his momentum. Vader with Lesnar's experience wasn't quite as good nor did he progress quite as fast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 6, 2002 Nobody has ever tried to justify him getting the belt over those guys. Because the only justification is "They died" I'll pretend you didn't just call Brock better than vader. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted December 6, 2002 I didn't. I said at that point in time in their careers Brock had progressed faster and was better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
