Guest jessecartieri Report post Posted December 10, 2002 No one here will probably admit it, but I think if WWE wants to light a fire back into itself, it needs to get Russo back from TNA. Again, this will probably lead to smark whining, BUT consider the following... - The best booking the WWF had was between 1997 and 1999, and guess who was there at the time? Yep, RUSSO. Storylines and angles started to lose it once he left, even though the wrestling (read: anything involving the newly entered Radicals) was better - HHH was nowhere near as out of control as he is now when Russo was around to give everyone a chance. - Russo would push guys who are currently being castr-HHHated. Who gave Booker T his big break? Yep, RUSSO! And he'd do it again, as opposed to him jobbing every week. - You'll probably try to twist this somehow, but really, has any Russo gimmick or angle been worse than anything Gerwitz, Steph, et al have come up with? - Russo has not done anything wrong in TNA, the only thing was the Owen thing and it was Piper who started it. And even if it was an angle, at least they had the guts to bring up his name, unlike the subtle jabs taken at him in the WWF/E (Someone mentioned the Chyna thing at the Royal Rumble, and the Rock getting crushed) So given all this, can any of you say in all seriousness that the WWE could do worse than bring back Vince Russo? I didn't think so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted December 10, 2002 I would have gave him a shot earlier this year when WWE signed him, and only kept him for a short while. If they allowed him to come up with some ideas, and had Vince (not Steph, but VINCE) to filter the ideas, or something along those lines. I loved what he did in WCW (in terms of trying to building up new players, and doing so succesfully for some), and would like to see him try it just one more time. I know many of you dislike him, and for good reason, but quite frankly, I'm certain he could do a better job than Gerwitz and Steph. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mickberna Report post Posted December 10, 2002 You're fucking insane. Vince Russo is a hack who couldn't write his way out of a lunchbag, and the only reason anybody considers his "era" as the best in WWF history is because Stone Cold and the Rock were there, covering up the other hour+ of shittiness that was Raw. Of course, it doesn't match up to the full 2 hours of shittiness that is Raw these days, but Russo IS NOT the answer. Stone Cold & Rock = Attitude Era & High Ratings Vince Russo = Crappy writing, worked shoots galore, and WCW's worst years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted December 10, 2002 No thanks. The shift in product direction with guys like Angle and a chance to make a cruiserweight division won't accomodate to Vince Russo's booking. Best booking was in 2000, and the numbers reflected it. HHH will still have his way as Russo will find no way around Steph or Vince's grasps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted December 10, 2002 Why do people think 99 was a great year? Pretty much EVERYTHING was terrible from storylines to the actual in-ring product. Hell, Russo came up with quite a few stinkers during that time(the Corporate Ministry mess, Billy Gunn: KOTR, satanist Undertaker, Mae Young and Moolah brought back to TV) and it baffles me that some people want him back even after the trainwrecks that were his stints in WCW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Slapnuts00 Report post Posted December 10, 2002 The only reason I'd want Russo to return to WWE is so he stops ruining NWA-TNA. Remember kids, JUST SAY NO TO RUSSO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest oldschoolwrestling Report post Posted December 10, 2002 Why do people think 99 was a great year? Pretty much EVERYTHING was terrible from storylines to the actual in-ring product. Hell, Russo came up with quite a few stinkers during that time(the Corporate Ministry mess, Billy Gunn: KOTR, satanist Undertaker, Mae Young and Moolah brought back to TV) and it baffles me that some people want him back even after the trainwrecks that were his stints in WCW. Thank you. I've been watching a lot of old ppv's lately and 99 is really sucking some ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cheech13 Report post Posted December 10, 2002 Now as an avid supporter of Russo in the past, and a fan of the booking in the WWF from 97-99, I must say that bringing back Russo in this day would be disastrous. The problem is that everything that WWE needs right now to right the product are not what Russo could do. Sports entertainment, in the Russo sense (Crash tv) is a proven dead in the ratings. Part of the reason that it worked well the first time was that it was such a deviation from what we had been seeing for so many years. However, Russo-like booking has been driven into the ground to the point where an entire new concept is needed to spark the promotion. What that is I don't know, but I know it's not Russo. Secondly, while Russo did create storylines and gimmicks for the midcarders, they were often so childish and one-dimensional that he pigeonholed good workers for life. The reason Shawn Stasiak, Val Venis, Mark Henry, Bill DeMott, etc. will never be taken seriously is because they were saddled with these insane gimmicks that ruined them forever. Furthermore, Russo's handling of the titles in the company basically ruined them for future generations. They were all worthless by this year when WWE sacked the midcard belts. The reason midcarders couldn't get over these days is because they were fighting over meaningless titles that used to change hands every week. Russo also overused gimmick matches to the point where none of them, save maybe HITC and TLC can draw anymore. When we saw a million cage matches in '99, why would we pay for them now? Plus his overuse of T&A burnt that concept into the ground. Basically, Russo lucked into Austin/McMahon and the Rock, and nothing else from that era really changed anything. The only thing he did do was burn out the company's stars and ideas to the point where that backlash is hurthing them now. Oh, and by the way, Russo was back earlier this year. His proposed storylines were so out of touch and off the wall that he was canned after the first day. Don't kid yourself here. Even if he did do alright, Stepanie, Heyman and HHH have the power in that company. Nothing is going to change until Vince makes a huge change. Rant over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted December 10, 2002 The most substantial proof of other intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't bothered to make contact with us. As proven by this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ram Report post Posted December 10, 2002 Well obviously Russo would be better than a new writer who can write well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted December 10, 2002 Why do people think 99 was a great year? Pretty much EVERYTHING was terrible from storylines to the actual in-ring product. Hell, Russo came up with quite a few stinkers during that time(the Corporate Ministry mess, Billy Gunn: KOTR, satanist Undertaker, Mae Young and Moolah brought back to TV) and it baffles me that some people want him back even after the trainwrecks that were his stints in WCW. Thank you. I've been watching a lot of old ppv's lately and 99 is really sucking some ass. 2000 was THE year. It was to the WWE what 97 was to WCW or 89 was NWA. There is no question in my mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted December 10, 2002 - Russo has not done anything wrong in TNA, the only thing was the Owen thing and it was Piper who started it. Dude. Did you miss the quality sinking as soon as he was signed onboard? He joined on right after the fourth show. At the fifth show, profanity and innuendo on everything (even midget masturbation.. Eew) went through the roof. Now we're going into the land of "It's a SHOOT, Tony!" The only plus of Russo is that his sophmoric humor can click with 15 year olds. For him, wrestling is just a side dish that compliments horrific angles that make Katie Vick look run-of-the-mill material, not the other way around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted December 11, 2002 By that, do you mean, lots of shitty wrestling? Just curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted December 11, 2002 I don't know. Back when Russo was writing, I was a mark who never visited any other wrestling sites but WWF.com, never watched WCW, never knew who Ric Flair was (but often wondered whp that old overtanned guy with the white-ish hair on the Turner channel was), and rooted for McMahons whenever they got in the ring with an actual wrestler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted December 11, 2002 By that, do you mean, lots of shitty wrestling? Just curious. Russo was DAMN lucky the WWF had the roster it did in 97 and to a lesser extent, 98 to cover up his fuck-ups. Cause they were very apparant in 99. WrestleMania 15 was the worst one since 9. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted December 11, 2002 WrestleMania 15 was the worst one since 9. Oh, come on. 11 was worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted December 11, 2002 XV wasn't too bad. Sure HIAC sucked but I enjoyed Austin v. Rock. I think 12 and 13 were worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted December 11, 2002 WrestleMania 15 was the worst one since 9. Oh, come on. 11 was worse. 11 had a good Michaels/Diesel bout, the best celebrity match EVER, a good Razor/Jarrett match, and a DAMN GOOD Hart/Backlund bout. Only Bundy/UT truly sucked and that was only a -*, compared to the -***** HIAC match of WM XV. Add to that all the title matches were clusterfucks while The Tag Match in WM XI MEANT something. (Owen's first title.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted December 11, 2002 As brought up earlier, crash tv is dead. WWE needs to do a different format for their show because the format of skits and backstage shit pushing instigating what goes on in the ring is now stale. They need a totally different format for the tv because Russo's template of a wrestling show stinks right now. Just look at TNA to see that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted December 11, 2002 Bret v. Backlund sucked- it was way too short and Piper annoyed the hell out of me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted December 11, 2002 XV wasn't too bad. Sure HIAC sucked but I enjoyed Austin v. Rock. I think 12 and 13 were worse 12 and 13 had bad matches. 15 had bad clusterfucks, with bad angles backing them. 12 and 13 had two good/great matches each: Bret/Shawn and Diesel/UT on 12 and Bret/Austin and the Tag Titles Match at 13. WrestleMania 12 / WrestleMania 13 > WrestleMania 15 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted December 11, 2002 12 and 13 had bad matches. 15 had bad clusterfucks, with bad angles backing them. So, it was 7 Redux... Sort of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted December 11, 2002 The Tag Titles match at WM13 bored me to tears. I liked Austin v. Rock, X-Pac v. Shane O, the IC title match and Bart Gunn getting knocked the fuck out was pretty funny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dreamer420 Report post Posted December 11, 2002 - The best booking the WWF had was between 1997 and 1999, and guess who was there at the time? Yep, RUSSO. Storylines and angles started to lose it once he left, even though the wrestling (read: anything involving the newly entered Radicals) was better I wouldn't say that. It was the Tits, Ass, and Swearing that brought in all the ratings back then. The booking still sucked dick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted December 11, 2002 I wouldn't say that. It was the Tits, Ass, and Swearing that brought in all the ratings back then. The booking still sucked dick. Ehhh.... I wouldn't go that far. The booking then was better than the booking now, if only because it felt like the chapter of a story was finished by the time the show ended. In one show, Vince was going through "Texas" looking for Austin, found him, and got his ass kicked by yokels at the end of the show. (for simplicity, let's not mention that the Vince in Texan Bars segments ran on throughout the show when midcarders could have gotten a chance to wrestle) In another, Austin didn't want to bother with the Black Wedding but eventually got over it long enough to go save Steph, etc etc. The real blowoffs happened on PPV, but at least it felt like your two hours weren't a complete waste. Today's shows feel like a complete and total "BUY THE PPV" with no effort of giving you any sense of completion when you're done. The only place anything is settled is on PPV, and TV's only job is to hype that. However, the T&A and Swearing wouldn't draw anymore. Stephanie has tried that for the longest time now, and just can't compete now that Jackass has pushed the envelope further than WWE can probably get away with without turning into a large-scale garbage wrestling fed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted December 11, 2002 12 and 13 had bad matches. 15 had bad clusterfucks, with bad angles backing them. So, it was 7 Redux... Sort of. No, at the very least WM 7 had one-on-one matches that people were excited about. WM 15 had thrown together tag teams, 3-Way and 4-Way Matches that were unecessary, and was just badly booked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest deadbeater Report post Posted December 11, 2002 WWF got lucky they had Mankind playing off Rock, Austin, UT and the others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest geniusMoment Report post Posted December 11, 2002 Why not give Russo a chance to at least create some ideas for storylines, its not like it can get any worse. I would rather be entertained by crap then watch another boring raw. Just use vince as his filter, hell it worked last time. 1998-99 had better creative angles. 2000 had better wrestling but the lack of creative angles led to the begining of the wwf's decline. The last really great angle that the wwf has actually pulled off is Cactus jack vs. HHH since then I haven't enjoyed their product at all. Yet I still watch some 3 years later, I don't know why it's like wwf is my heroin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted December 11, 2002 Jesus christ, Russo is a horrible writer with a predilection for pushing himself and bad sexual angles involving strippers, gays, transvestites and fat women. He also has a hard on for shoot angles which make no sense, and ZERO respect for world title. Shooting a sick person doesnt make them feel better. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted December 11, 2002 1998 was horrible outside of Austin/McMahon and Rock/Mick, and 1999 was horrible all around. Wrestlemania XV is the worst Wrestlemania (at least at IX the gimmick was fun, and Michaels/Tatanka & Perfect/Luger were okay, plus Doink beating the tar out of Crush was great). Wrestlemania XII had three good matches (Taker/Diesel, Bret/Shawn, Austin/Savio), plus HHH getting squashed in 30 seconds. Wrestlemania XV has only two matches above DUD, compared to three in the negatives, one of which, Butterbean/Bart, was the biggest business killing farce that I have ever seen in the WWF. Russo booked the worst Wrestlemania ever, the worst Royal Rumble ever, the second worst Survivor Series ever (behind 2000), and the second worst King of the Ring ever (behind 1995). I can count the number of good PPVs from the period on one hand (Wrestlemania XIV, Summerslam 1998, St. Valentine's Day Massacre, Backlash 1999). Russo is the worst thing that ever happened to professional wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
