Intercontinental Title

[Guest JLAJRC]

It used to mean you were second best. You were practically guaranteed a WWF title shot somewhere in the future. Now, just about anyone can get it. I can barely remember that RVD is the current holder. This title itself needs a push.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

RVD isn't the IC champ William Rgal is.

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

It does show how far the IC championship belt has fallen whan people have to be reminded who the current champion is!

Perhaps the rot was started when the WCW championship became the #2 belt in the company, although, the IC champ hasn't been mentioned as a threat by the champion for many a year.

[Guest Tony149]

The IC Title hasn't meant a thing since The Rock lost it in 1998.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

none of the tittles mean shit anymore. the undisputed tittle match isn't even going to be the big draw for wrestlemnia

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

Perhaps the IC belt has meant nothing since Rocky won it in 1997?

[Guest teke184]

The IC title is a lot like Sunny.  It was great when it first appeared and when only a few select people ever had it, but it became worthless when everyone had their turn.

 

The title has meant progressively less since probably 1995, when HBK forfeited his belt to Shane Douglas because the 101st Airborne kicked his ass, then Shane quickly lost it to Razor.  After that, there were Goldust, Ahmed Johnson, a painfully un-over HHH, VERY hated superface Rocky Maivia, etc. etc. etc.

 

The belt regained some luster when The Rock had a good reign throughout 1998, but dropped far when Godfather and Chyna held the belt in 1999.  It picked up again when Angle, Benoit, and Jericho were fighting over it in 2000, but the WWF pissed its meaning away AGAIN by giving title reigns to Billy Gunn, Chyna, Kane, Albert, Test, and William Regal.

 

Right now, it means less than it did a year ago at Wrestlemania X-7, but slightly more than it did a few months before that at Armageddon 2000.  If the belt isn't given to a rising star like RVD SOON and kept on them for several months, it may bottom out and be worth less than the Euro title.

[Guest ])r. ])eath]

I, personally, found the Intercontinental Heavyweight Title to be the most prestigious during Honky Tonk Man's two year reign. Truthfully, I don't know if the common fan these days could deal with a title reign that lasted for more than a year. Certainly not when there are 12 Pay Per Views a year.

 

I see several people mention that Chyna helped deface the title, yes she did, in my opinion, but you must also note that when she "shared" the title with Jericho, it was far worse. How can two people share a fucking non tag team belt?

 

I say let RVD TV title it. Let him go on an ECW type run. See what happens when he holds the title for a year. At least the matches would be more entertaining with RVD as champ. Regal seems to clash with anyone whose last name isn't Benoit.

[Guest Court]

Well i can remember a time when a title, it didn't matter which title it was, meant something. It wasn't just a belt to pass around every pay-per-view, it meant somehting.

 

These days every can have a title belt, especially the World title. well until they unified them, it changed hands every bleedin week it seemed.

 

Remember when titles were only defended once a year if that. The World title was in someones hands for years, not weeks.

 

Ahh....the days they are gone forever......

[Guest Tolwyn]

Again...maybe it's just me but I thought Albert did do a decent run with the Intercontinental Title despite the weird bookings.But most titles doesn't mean sh*t anymore since the very poorly handled Invasion Angle.Most titles picked up by then but the whole Edge/Regal mess hurt it even more. Now the only way to save it is to Give RVD the title at WM 18 and let him run with it until an WM 19 Main Event Title vs Title against let's say Benoit who won the WWF/Undisputed Title at Summerslam this year.....

[Guest goodhelmet]

"Well i can remember a time when a title, it didn't matter which title it was, meant something. It wasn't just a belt to pass around every pay-per-view, it meant somehting."

 

Exactly. Do you remember Arn Anderson and the tv title? Or when tag teams normally wrestled exclusively as tag teams. The titles today are just all over the place.

 

 

"and let him run with it until an WM 19 Main Event Title vs Title against let's say Benoit who won the WWF/Undisputed Title at Summerslam this year....."

 

ah, we can dream!

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

its not a matter of rvd holding the title for 2 years, that in itself will do nothing for the title.  what they need to do is have a strong champ (rvd to continue the example) and have him beat higher profile opponents and actually *care* to have the title.  the reason the fans dont care about the title is because the wrestlers seemingly dont.  but the fact remains, to give the title back its value, they need not only to have a strong champ, but also a series of strong contenders who are looking to run with the title, rather than something to do between main event fueds.

[Guest BA_Baracus]

It still means something!

 

Who holds it again?

 

William Regal?!  Good night...

[Guest tombstone]

The IC title fades in and out of importance.  When I started watching WWF again, Jericho was champ and for months (the 2000 run of five KICK ASS pay per views) he, Benoit & Angle traded blows in great matches for a title that meant something.

(Incidentally the European title was worth something at this point as well with Eddie Guerrero, Angle and Jericho getting in on the act)

Then Rikishi got the belt.

Then Val Venis.

Then Chyna.

Then Eddie, but unfortunately still involved with Chyna.

Then Billy Gunn.

Then it picked up with Benoit then Jericho (MOTY @ Royal Rumble 2001) and a class battle with them, Eddie G & X - Pac at No Way Out.

Jericho's feud with Regal bombed & he jobbed like a jobber to HHH.

This and the Jeff Hardy mimi reign cheapened the belt and the fact that Albert and a barely pushed Lance Storm (who under different circumstances could have had the same impact Jericho had a year and a half previously) didnt help.

The botched Edge & Christian feud and a not over Regal havent helped.

 

The trick with the IC title is to put it on someone who the bookers AND fans consider a conceivable threat for the WWF Title within one to two years (Jericho took two years, Angle took eight months, Benoit has had three PPV shots at the title, the first coming four months after his first IC title win.)

 

It is not the title that is at fault, it is the Wrestlers who hold it and how their feuds are presented.

Albert, William Regal, Rikishi & Val venis should never have smelled the IC title.

Kane should have dropped to Storm who then got a decent push before Edge turned him over.  Follow a better booked feud with Christian and RVD could be facing Christain at Wrestlemania.

Hence a much more important IC title and Los Conquistadors would be a lot more over now, than they really are.

RVD and Edge are currently the WWFs picks to be the NEXT BIG THING so they should be positioned as Jericho, Angle & benoit were in 2000 and Rock and HHH were in 1998.

It has been proven that this is how stars are made.

[Guest Tolwyn]

The WWF screwed Edge completely over.He could have been a good strong IC champ now with a feud with RVD heading towards WM18. Instead...Ivasion happened with weird bookings and tooo many title changes and Edge jobbing too Regal?

 

Do any of u guys notice that since Invasion things actively suck for a lot of wrestlers? I think this much talked rostersplit needs to happen

[Guest Anglesault]

I think the current downward spiral can be traced to Test

[Guest BA_Baracus]

Actually Regal holding the IC title isn't that bad.

 

He may not be the most agile or over guy, but he's been consistently portrayed as a fairly major, upper mid-card guy.

 

He may not make for a horribly exciting division, but he doesn't devalue the belt by holding it.

 

I think the worst series of reigns for the IC title in recent history were the Edge/Christian ones.  You could see that the title was completely playing second fiddle to the storyline (which wasn't that good anyways).

 

Most people didn't really see either guy (especially Christian) as legit champs at the time.

 

Titles should be above storylines and the storylines should in fact revolve around them, not the other way around.

 

Since the Edge and Christian feud the title has stayed about steady and even gone up in a value a bit.  Unfortunately there's just no excitement in the division as Edge was first stuck with Test (over-pushed slug with no charisma) then Regal (good guy, but their styles clash so totally that a good match between them is impossible).

 

RVD should help the belt considerably.  People will actually be excited to see him win it since they didn't give it to him the day he came in...

[Guest supersalvadorian]

Regal would be a much better IC champ if he didn't have to use the f-ing brass knunkles. It's like Jeff Jarrett and his guitar: it's a cliched finish and with the exact same weapon used over and over again.

 

 

Supersalvadorian

[Guest artDDP]

The championships should be the thread that holds the WWF together, the reasons everyone is in the WWF in the first place.  Then a central storyline should be established.

 

Instead, the WWF is very storyline-driven and championships take a back seat to everything and you often wonder, "What are these guys fighting for?"

 

How hard is it for a new Intercontinental champion to be granted the time to put into words how much his win means?  How much would it have done for Edge when he won the championship at SummerSlam to tell viewers just why he's so happy to hold the championship and how proud he feels?  Viewers would see this and say, "Hey, this guy's glad to have the title.  Must be pretty important."  

 

One thing I like about Triple-H is that he reminds you he's the champion when he has a title and he and Steve Austin make sure that everyone knows that the championship is what they are fighting for, giving it meaning and making the title holder look that much better, holding the one item two of the company's biggest stars cherish.

 

Regal seems to be happier that he got away with his brass knuckles instead of holding his first Intercontinental championship.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

Actually Regal holding the IC title isn't that bad.

 

He may not be the most agile or over guy, but he's been consistently portrayed as a fairly major, upper mid-card guy.

 

He may not make for a horribly exciting division, but he doesn't devalue the belt by holding it.

 

I think the worst series of reigns for the IC title in recent history were the Edge/Christian ones.  You could see that the title was completely playing second fiddle to the storyline (which wasn't that good anyways).

 

Most people didn't really see either guy (especially Christian) as legit champs at the time.

 

Titles should be above storylines and the storylines should in fact revolve around them, not the other way around.

 

Since the Edge and Christian feud the title has stayed about steady and even gone up in a value a bit.  Unfortunately there's just no excitement in the division as Edge was first stuck with Test (over-pushed slug with no charisma) then Regal (good guy, but their styles clash so totally that a good match between them is impossible).

 

RVD should help the belt considerably.  People will actually be excited to see him win it since they didn't give it to him the day he came in...

regal holding the title is bad, because fans and bookers alike know that regal is going nowhere fast, and couldnt hope to hang with the main eventers, and isnt that what the IC should be used for, a springboard?  thus, the fans have no respect for the title, and regal by merely holding it devalues it.  now if the belt were on rvd, edge or possibly christian, then the fans could respect it more, as RVD has already main evented ppv's and edge is being built as the next big thing, both guys are actual threads to lower uppercarders.

 

also, the title *was* needed in the E&C fued, as edge having titles was the original reason for christian's jealousy, resulting in the heel turn.  thus the title was also needed in the fued as otherwise christian wouldnt fight edge, he wanted gold.  this fued also did elevate the title briefly, as it was shown that the belt (and KotR trophy) could divide 7-time wwf tag champs and brothers.  however by that stage the belt was lost following the *memorable* reigns throughout 2000 and much of 2001.  also the edge-regal series has damaged it badly, as both guys are now stale, and they didnt want to see either with the belt, and the string of boring matches has not sparked any interest.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

One thing I like about Triple-H is that he reminds you he's the champion when he has a title and he and Steve Austin make sure that everyone knows that the championship is what they are fighting for, giving it meaning and making the title holder look that much better, holding the one item two of the company's biggest stars cherish.

this is generally true with the world title in general though.  look at jericho, austin, angle, hhh, (rock doesnt do it really).  when these guys all won the title, they either made huge sacrifices to either get (austin) or keep the title (jericho and steph).  if debaucherous tactics werent needed, the significance of the win was often played up (angle family in the ring), in order to state the importance of the title.

 

now im not suggesting they hold full scale heel turns or celebrations every time the IC belt changes hands, but they *should* do more than just have the guy sling the belt over his shoulder and walk to the back.  a little emotion would go a long way here.  because the wrestlers have no pride in holding the belt, they do not give the fans any reason to get excited about the belt, and the belt is devalued.  its all about having a strong champ with strong opposition, with both guys genuinely wanting the title.  all of these elements have been sadly lacking lately.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I posted about this somewhere else on the forum.

 

I'll try to paraphrase that here.

 

A LONG RVD IC title run would do wonders for both the belt AND several midcard wrestlers.

 

WHY?

 

Jerry Lynn.

 

That's the answer.

 

Why did anyone care about Jerry Lynn in ECW?  

 

Because he was RVD's biggest challenge to the belt.  THat's it.  He never beat him for the belt...he was just a strong challenge.  AND IT MADE HIM.

 

If RVD has a long run with the IC title it will make a huge star out of RVD, Whoever wrestles him for it will get some heat out of the match...Whoever is positioned as his toughest challenge will be a star...and whoever beats him for it will be huge.

 

As for the belt?

 

Long runs make the belt more prestigious.  The belts mean so much more when not everyone holds it.  

 

During RVD's tv title run...who cared about the ECW title?

[Guest TheHulkster]

The TV title was my favorite belt in all of wrestling back in the day. When Regal held it, there were 10 minute time limit draws all over the place. You never see that kind of thing any more, but there was a certain charm about the last minute when garry capeta used to do the whole "One minute left in this match, one minute" and the face would just go all out kicking regal's ass, then he hit that one big move, but the time limit expired and regal walked away with his belt. It made him look like such a dick, it was a beautiful thing. 1998 was a great year for the belt too, booker t's run. He had great matches with Benoit almost every other show, and it got some  of the best rick martel matches in years. Thats what i liked about wcw in 98, the US belt meant something because people killed each other over it, the Cruiser belt was the hottest belt in the company, the tv belt meant something, and you know what they all had in common? Strong champions. Booker T was a strong champ, jericho was a strong champ, DDP was a strong champ, because....*gasp* they actually gave them tv time and went out of their way to make them  look good. Finshers meant something too. Did you know there was a time when people actually tapped out to the lion tamer/walls of jericho? The IC belt just needs a strong champ, and RVD is as strong as any. If we're lucky, he'll get into a program with storm for backlash.

[Guest mastermind]

The Intercontinental Heavyweight Wrestling Champion.  I haven't heard this phrase in years. Anyways, part of my 1989 Vince rant applies to this topic.

 

I say it goes back to Vince actually resorting to family entertainment. The title was very highly regarded from 1986-1989. It's reported that the wwf actually made more money than the NFL during this time period(source: Toronto Sun sports media). The title should be around the #2 man in the promotion point blank! Some would argue that the title would be better off on someone else, but this immediately makes fans not care about the title. If not the #2 man the top face, top heel, or top wrestler as the world title is on the top draw most of the time.

 

The wwf followed this philosophy during this time period as evident that Randy Savage(top heel besides Orndorff in 1986), Ricky Steamboat(best wrestler), HTM(top heel), UW(strongly becoming top face or rivalling) and then...........

 

Warrior retired the lineage of the days of the I-C Champion being seen as the #2 champion in the promotion. Although, Mr. Perfect won the tourney and had an awesome reign I don't recall him getting those famous world title match, but not i-c title match bouts.

 

The title was still pretty highly regarded, but the difference between wwf champion and i-c champion was becoming apparent. Bret Hart and Roddy Piper had pretty soild reigns. The title was once again becoming close to the level of world title when Bret defended against Bulldog as the main event of SummerSlam. When HBK took the title it started to become on the level of the world title when Bret had his world title on the line against him since he beat the man who beat him for the I-C title.

 

It started to slip back again in 1993 as Shawn wasn't put in nay real position to look like the #2 man. Anyways, the title started its slip when Shawn began is infamous run of losing titles without actually getting pinned. Ramone was still solid as champ. I don't think HBK surrendering the title to Douglas as bad. I think it was Douglas losing the title the same night to Ramone was bad. Anyways, I think the title REALLY started to fall on Ahmed Johnson. He was on track, but that injury and his subsequent crap afterwards didn't help any.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen the title started to suck during the I-C title tourney in 1996 when Marc Mero won it. The wwf champ was way and above the I-C champion. It came back a bit when Owen Hart had it in 1996 during the hot feud with Austin. It went to hell again when Austin never defended the belt or lost it. Not his fault obviously, but this happened twice in 2 years and the champ and title looks inferior to the world champion. The Rock gets the title when it's "given" to him Mr. Mcmahon. Remember Austin never LOST the title to begin with and he won it against Owen in a crappy match. Rock HAD to get a long title reign or he would look like a paper champion. That reign ended and so did the importance of the title.

 

The beginning of crap began as 1999 saw the likes of people like Road Dog and Godfather with the title. This is so stupid writing when you look at the title's past and relevance. No one in their right mind would take these guys seriously as the #1 contender to Austin in 1999.  The title hasn't recovered since. Jericho kind of started to get the title back some presitige before quickly losing it to Angle. Then Angle loses the title without being pinned and the title goes back to suck I'm sorry. During this time no one actually believed the champion was the #2 man in the company.

 

That's why I thought Triple H winning last year was good because he was easily seen as #2 and a threat to the world champion. People going against him would seem like top tier. The wwf ruins the damn thing with Hardy a constant curtain jerker wins the title and then Trips wins it back. He then loses to Kane and Kane loses to Albert and the wwf really put the title into chaos that is hasn't recovered from.

 

What the wwf should do is stick to their guns. Let's face it ratings were high in 1999 because people were seeing titles change hands almost every other week on RAW or SmackDown. The aftermath has caused the current RAW to get lower ratings because it's damn impossible to go through the titles like that and expect to keep things credible.

 

Go back and keep the philosophy of the 80's. Keep the title on one of the top 3 guys or the hot and rising star. Don't let them drop the strap until someone reaches that level. Even if the title reign is getting a bit problematic with the champ holding it keep it on him until someone steps up to the plate. Something like they did with Yokozuna in 1993. Don't hotshot the title onto people like Regal who really only has proven he is European Championship material.

 

Give RVD the title and let him run with it until someone steps up to him. Actually have champ vs. champ scenarios with Triple H(come on we know he's getting the title) against RVD. Make RVD the headlining champ of one of the divisions. I still don't think Edge was worthy of the I-C title. He was a tag team wrestler for the majority of 1999-2001 and then a few months later he becomes the supposed #2 champion? I bet that's how the masses saw it as well.

[Guest WildPegasusXXII]

keep the IC title away from RVD..the title needs an all around wrestler right now to bring it back up in stature...keep the belt on Regal until Benoit comes back, and then toss them in the next PPV, two matches behind the ME, and let them stiff the bejesus out of eachother, perhaps a submission match or something like that, and have Benoit go over and hold the belt for 6 months or so, while feuding with Lance Storm, and then once he loses the IC title, feud him with Austin or somebody as his entrance to legit man eventing.

 

As for the title meaning anything these days...every title goes to shit now and again...even the world title...Ultimate Warrior,  and Big Show anyone? The tag titles are gointhrough the same bit these days...billy and chuck.se two shouldnt even be main eventing Jakked, and theyre the champs? Spike and Tazz are now worthless as a tag team...good thing they didnt spend all thatmuch time building them as a legitimate team

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Keep the title away from the most popular midcarder the WWF has had in years?  Because that won't make people care about it more than Regal?

 

That sounds like blind hatred of RVD with no concern for actually helping the business.

[Guest JLAJRC]

I agree with practically everyone here. I like Regal but he isn't IC material yet. You want to low how low its gotten? I totally forgot Edge, Alberts, Christian, and didn't Test have a reign?

The same thing could be said about the tag team titles. They got Hardy Boys, APA, Dudley Boys, Chuck and Billy, and whoever else the WWF decides to throw together that week. Not fun.

 

The Hardcore title used to be fun with Shane, Crash, and a few others. Now I just don't care.

 

Does the Europeon and Cruiserweight titles still exist? You wouldn't know by the WWF.

 

Seems like only the WWF title or Women's title seems be popular these days.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

RVD will be the best thing they could do with the title at this time. I don't think Regal has been *that* bad, certainly better then Albert, Test etc.

 

An extended Storm/RVD feud would have been great. As it is, maybe Edge should turn.

[Guest WildPegasusXXII]

Keep the title away from the most popular midcarder the WWF has had in years?  Because that won't make people care about it more than Regal?

 

That sounds like blind hatred of RVD with no concern for actually helping the business.

way to jump on the "that guy doesnt like RVD because he said one bad thing about him" bandwagon.

 

Do I like RVD? somewhat, yes.

 

Do I think he's a legitimate contender for the IC title? hell, no.

 

Regal at least has coherent matches that make a modicum of sense. Give him a decent opponent, and you'll see a hell of a match.

 

Give RVD the IC title, and he'll end up defending it once every two months...give the belt to someone who actually gets booked to wrestle in singles matches often enough so that they can defend now and again.

 

If you absulutly must put a title belt on RVD, which I dont think it necessary at all, slap the European title on him. Hell, give him back the Hardcore title for all I care, but he isn't near the level of IC champion as of yet. Will he be by the end of 2002? Probably, yes...but as of right now? Hell, no.

 

I can't wait for the day after WrestleMania if Regal wins...everybody and his little brother will be on here bitching up a storm about how RVD is being held down. At least it'll bring a semblance of entertainment back to this area of the board, whether its true or not.

[Guest mastermind]

Perception is key as some have said. Regal as this moment STINKS as I-C champion. No one is going to care about the title with this guy holding it. Hell, I still think if RVD wins the title the fans won't care initially either because the title really doesn't mean anything. It will have to get the wwf title treatment. I can't even remember the title lineage of the world title in 1999 and I have a hell of wrestling memory and video library.

 

Triple H solidified the title when he made us notice he was on a streak. That's what the belt needs. A streak and someone the fans can actually notice. I don't see anyone on the roster who can do this except RVD. Yeah, Benoit can put on matches and whatnot, but let's be serious here. Most casual fans don't notice him because he's not flashy. The title needs to get noticed and stablized along with the other titles. As for the tag situation I have already stated that Hall and Nash should take the titles. It may bore some people with them having a stranglehold, but who really cares about BillyandChuck? The titles will get noticed on Hall and Nash. It's like a rebuilding stage here especially with this split thing.