Angle v. Lesnar

[Guest RedJed]

I don't know who really takes the blame for this booking desicion but whatever the case is, I hate it. Just got done watching Smackdown and intentionally didnt read the spoilers this week since I was interested and anticipating how they would handle Angle and Lesnar after the ppv. What I saw tonight totally dissapointed me to the point where I have no hope in this feud already........the same feud I thought just days ago could possibly turn this company around.

 

I think the Heyman-Angle pairing is a horrible idea and just hurts the product on top. Angle as a heel (and now a complete chickenshit one at that) is something I was hoping would be distanced from finally, and I was looking forward to see this tweener and humble acting Angle do a solid run as champ leading to Mania with Lesnar in a match that was built on the legitimate wrestling and the fact that the two respected each other, etc. So much for that. Angle doesn't need a mouthpiece for god's sakes, much less a manager.

 

The whole idea behind this seems so booked on the fly to me. Makes little sense overall since how is Heyman REALLY getting even more of a one up on Lesnar than he did when he screwed him at Survivor Series and Show got the belt? This doesn't add the right story into Heyman and Lesnar's beef, it's just a rehash of the Big Show thing, but only with a suspension angle added to it. HORRIBLE direction to take if this is the idea for Mania, especially. I've already lost interest in the only match/program I thought had long term potential in the company. So this means down the road we get a Big Show face turn too, oh joy. That's perhaps the worst part of this. I was actually hoping we would continue to see Show attempted to be pushed as a monster heel with Heyman by his side, and more specifically, ONLY managing Show. Plus this entire storyline now just doesn't make all the sense in the world to me, more confusing than anything. Angle will surely be booked to look like a chickenshit heel once again this run as well, probably even worse than before.

 

I remember back last weekend seeing some people saying that at that point after the ppv that Angle was looking far weaker than Lesnar in many ways and it would be hard to build the feud in that manner. At that point I didn't see it as a problem, but now I don't see how they can really make this feud interesting and more importantly, one of the MEs at Mania. The only way I thought they could build this match up was by having them both legitimately prove themselves in the ring as tweeners or full babyfaces. But thats not gonna happen.

[Guest MrRant]

Well.... he IS still getting booed and it would take too much time to get people out of the "You Suck" chants. Even in his role up to Armageddon he was still kindof a dick so I don't know where you are getting the humble stuff. Besides the return of Austin looms neigh.

[Guest RedJed]

Well.... he IS still getting booed and it would take too much time to get people out of the "You Suck" chants. Even in his role up to Armageddon he was still kindof a dick so I don't know where you are getting the humble stuff. Besides the return of Austin looms neigh.

He was being humble by asking Lesnar for help and not being the stuck-up character he was so stereotyped as.

 

Anyway this was apparently the best way they could come up with to turn him back to a full heel. Give me a break.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

now I don't see how they can really make this feud interesting and more importantly, one of the MEs at Mania.

Weren't you paying attention this past year?

 

Dogshit = WrestleMania material.

 

Although I'd normally agree with you, I'm hoping something big happens at the Rumble.

 

Although I'm not sure how much deeper they want to make Paul Heyman's Conspiracy Theroes before it turns out he was working for Brock the whole time to screw them all or something.

[Guest BA_Baracus]

*Sigh*...

 

...yes, I'm sure the match will just be terrible now. Oh no, Kurt Angle has a manager...that apparently makes him look weak despite the fact that he's been portrayed a goofy second banana since pretty much day 1 in the WWE.

 

Quitcher bitchin.

[Guest nikowwf]

Angle was either going to go into mania as a semi-face against Brock, or as a huge heel. I think IF they had to turn Brock face (which i disagreed with but its done) then this will allow Angle to be a strong heel. Without Heyman he would be a heel, but a heel we all love to cheer. This way, people will want him to lose more.

 

niko

[Guest notJames]

Yeah, but it reeks of desperation on the part of Vince and Co. Plus it destroys any sense of continuity and logic. (Yeah, I know, what a shock.) If Angle and Heyman were conspiring all along, why would they want Brock reinstated, when the whole purpose of their alliance was to keep Brock from regaining the championship? And isn't this slightly turning Big Show into a semi-sympathetic pseudo-face, since it seems obvious that he really isn't Heyman's "number one client" anymore?

 

And if Angle really needed heat, all he had to do was renege on his promise to Lesnar, period. Everyone wants to see Angle v. Lesnar, and if Kurt would have just said no, that would have been instant heat. Plus, they could just play Lesnar stalking Angle for two months until he either relented or was forced to put up the title at WrestleMania. Think of the vignettes they could cut sans Heyman, simply using their amateur pasts, their runs as champ, etc. So easy. Yet they had to throw Heyman (and by extension, Big Slow) into the mix. Ugh.

 

It's like that old saying, "Keep it simple, stupid."

 

Of course, this it the WW_ we're talking about...

[Guest Brian]

Looking at it, with Angle winning the title they did the best thing which was turn him heel.

[Guest nikowwf]

I can't believe how many people are complaining about this...ANGLE IS CHAMP, he's a heel, the TOP HEEL and its only been one week so we don't know if Heyman will overshadow like he did this week to get him over as heel.

 

Plus it looks like he will wrestle BENOIT in a championship match to end their feud.

 

whine, whine, whine...even when we get what we want if its not 100% what we think we whine

 

niko

[Guest Ram]

Nothings perfect.

 

Be happy with what you are getting.

[Guest Brian]

People are complaining because they fucked it up by having the established guy go over the non-established guy in what will probably be another chicken-shit, transitional title reign. It can be salvaged, but chances are it won't and the only person coming out of this looking like a main eventer will be Brock.

[Guest cabbageboy]

I actually enjoyed the hell out of this angle last night and think it could draw big money for WM. Let's review: you have a wronged face chasing a title he never legitimately lost, a smarmy heel who is ducking a man he knows he cannot beat, heel manager that stirs the pot.

 

Angle can still say that he wants to face Brock one on one at WM with no Heyman involved. Heyman being involved certainly doesn't hurt the feud, I think it adds a lot to it actually.

[cawthon777 0]

Honestly, I think they´re fine. There are 3 months till WrestleMania so anything can happen between now and then to make or break it; I think it´s a little early to declare it crap.

 

My opinion: Keep Angle and Lesnar seperated for a while ... have Heyman convince Stephanie that Lesnar needs to earn his title shot so throw him some heel wrestlers (although Show is the only one that comes to mind that Lesnar hasn´t already killed) and maybe have those guys have mini feuds with Lesnar while Angle fends off Benoit or Edge

 

Regardless of the buildup, it´s the payoff that counts and I don´t see this match sucking.

[Guest Anglesault]

I can't believe how many people are complaining about this...ANGLE IS CHAMP

Yes, we were all screaming to make Angle the unworthy pussy heel lackey champion!

 

This fucking storyline onlt helps Brock, just like everything else the WWF has done this year.

 

Fuck Angle, he doesn't have the size and lack of charisma and **1/2 star matches that Brock has!

[Guest Anglesault]

then this will allow Angle to be a strong heel.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Being a Pussy lackey to heyman and Show will make him a strong heel? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

Oh, wait, you were serious.

[Guest nikowwf]

You only have one scenario that will make you happy, and its not happening so you may just want to give up in the product, seriously.

 

Even if Angle is booked strong for 3 months hes not going over, so you won't be happy.

 

Very little makes you happy.

 

niko

[Guest Anglesault]

He's not being booked strong. He's being booked like Jericho last year! Before you know it, he'll be out fetching Heyman's lubricant and taking the Big Show for a walk.

[Guest Goodear]

Okay, here is the question Sault... who is getting pushed if not Angle? You know, considering as the show went off the air, Brock was laid out and all.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

People are complaining because they fucked it up by having the established guy go over the non-established guy in what will probably be another chicken-shit, transitional title reign.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, this "transitional champion" whining is bullshit. This is professional wrestling. The titles are fake. They're nothing more than awards passed from person to person. When you win a title in professional wrestling, sooner or later you're going to lose it. It may be a week, it may be a few months. We don't live in the days of Hulk Hogan anymore where the champion holds onto the belt for 4 years. This stuff is almost ridiculous as everyone calling the World title on RAW "fake" in a way of mocking it.

[Guest Anglesault]

You have got to be kidding me. Angle is a pussy lackey. You call that a push?

[Guest EternallyLazy]

You have got to be kidding me. Angle is a pussy lackey. You call that a push?

Well let's see... he is the champion... and he is the main focus of Smackdown now... and he most likely will be in the main event of WrestleMania... and he's not jobbing to Edge in the upper midcard... so yeah, I think it's safe to assume that it is quite a push.

 

You just want Angle to look like HHH... unstoppable, making his opponents in the end look like inferior challengers

[Guest Goodear]

SO ... if Angle isn't getting pushed... who is?

[Guest Anglesault]

Well let's see... he is the champion...

 

So was Jericho last year.

 

and he is the main focus of Smackdown now...

 

No, he's fourth in line behind Brock, Heyman, and Big Show.

 

and he most likely will be in the main event of WrestleMania...

 

So he can Job, to prove there "Angle can never beat Brock" point. Hey, that sounds familiar.

 

and he's not jobbing to Edge in the upper midcard...

 

Jericho beat Edge...

 

so yeah, I think it's safe to assume that it is quite a push.

 

Like Jericho's huge main event push that made him a major superstar last year.

 

You just want Angle to look like HHH... unstoppable, making his opponents in the end look like inferior challengers

 

I want Angle to be pushed like all there other successful heel champions. Why the fuck does he HAVE to, I mean he MUST be Honky Tony Man 2K2. There is no happy medium between HHH and incompeteant bumbling midcarder who wastes people's time in the main event?

[Guest Anglesault]

SO ... if Angle isn't getting pushed... who is?

Brock.

[Guest creativename]

I cannot comprehend how ANYONE could possibly be happy with this angle (except Big Show marks, and people who get off on WWE's struggles).

 

RedJed stated everything very well. I also thought this could help stabilize the company. I was so f*cking hyped up for Angle-Lesnar it's ridiculous. Now, after just one show, I have lost the vast majority of my interest in the match. The match might still be great, but it won't matter, because I'll no longer have any emotional stake in it.

 

Angle is Champ. Yeah, whoopty-damn-doo. It's a joke title reign, ala Jericho, and Heyman is Steph. I suppose that makes Big Show Lucy or something. How could anybody be satisfied with this nonsense?

 

I've been a Brock mark since day one; he really entertains me. But there is no way he should be beating Angle at Mania. It should've been Angle going over champ Brock in the Main Event, both faces or tweeners.

 

But, OK, they want Brock as the face and Angle as the heel. Whatever. It would've been easy as hell to make Angle a monster face, but if that's not what they want, fine. At least make him credible though. Now, he's just Heyman's sidekick. Even beyond the fact that this plot makes no sense whatsoever, having Angle look like a wuss with zero cred doesn't help him, and it doesn't help Brock when he beats a loser either.

 

Angle being a lame duck champ for 3 months can only damage is career. Actually, more like 1.5 months, because of the roster split. About the only people benfitting from this garbage are Big Show and Heyman, who apparently woke up one morning and decided he was a McMahon.

 

What the hell is the point of this feud now?

[Guest JHawk]

My biggest problem is the storyline logic gaps.

 

1. If the goal is to keep Brock away from the title, then why allow him to be reinstated?

 

2. Doesn't the handshake between Brock and Angle constitute a verbal contract?

 

3. Why the fuck is Stephanie McMahon allowing these "business deals" to go through in the first place? She obviously knows about them if she's telling Angle to admit what's going on. And why would she refuse to allow Brock to have his rematch when A) she told him after Survivor Series he would and B) the "no rematch clause" was only valid for the Show-Lesnar match contract?

 

Anybody else want to say "This angle makes perfect sense"?

[Guest EternallyLazy]

My biggest problem with all of you guys that are claiming that this angle is an automatic failure is the fact that it's just now getting fucking started! You guys have no clue how this is going to end up. You can speculate sure, but this is getting pretty ridiculous. Why not give it AT LEAST until the next Smackdown before you start your annoying cynical bitching.

[Guest Goodear]

SO ... if Angle isn't getting pushed... who is?

Brock.

Brock was made to look like an idiot who handed the title to someone who was stringing him along for a title shot that's going to get put off until Angle has no choice but to defend it. Plus he got demolished at the end of the show by being dumb enough to charge into the ring with three of his arch enemies standing right there.

[Guest notJames]

Because no amount of retroactive cut-and-paste triage could ever take the place of solid, no-nonsense booking. Even when (not if) Angle and Lesnar have their great match, it will never be as satisfying as it could be if they would just have faith in their performers and the patience to tell a simple story without having to hold the audience's hand the whole way through.

 

Adding Heyman to the mix is like waving the white flag. "OK, we surrender. We don't know how to book an easy winner like Angle/Brock without making everything cut and dried, letting you the fans know exactly who is the good guy and who is the bad guy." Hell, they may as well give Brock a white cowboy hat and Angle a curly black mustache. Does Angle really need a heel manager to convey the fact that he's the bad guy? They could've tried the Bret/HBK route, selling the athleticism over the drama, but I don't have that kind of faith in the writing staff to begin with.

 

Now that Heyman is Angle's choke chain, is there any doubt who will win at WM? How satisfying is it now?

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

2. Doesn't the handshake between Brock and Angle constitute a verbal contract?

That's what I'm thinking is setting up the Mania ME. He agreed to do it anywhere, anytime, blah blah blah.

 

Of course, with 3 months to WrestleMania, there's plenty of time for Kurt and Show to compete for Favorite Son, and Kurt could get bumped out of Heyman's stable in the end or something. I dunno.

 

I mean, one nice thing about this plot being so full of holes is that there's so many ways out. Give it some time, guys.