What body parts...

[Guest AndrewTS]

Just curious as to how these submission holds work exactly, and what body parts they theoretically damage.

 

Sharpshooter: This affects the back, correct? I'd thought so, but I think sometimes video games make it work for the legs.

 

Half-Crab/Boston Crab: Same deal with the Sharpshooter, sorta. A little confusion on the target area.

 

Crossface Chicken Wing: I think it is a choke-style hold that also affects the shoulder. Is this correct?

 

Scorpion Death Lock: It looks nearly identical to the Sharpshooter, but I've heard there is a small difference. Also, Sting's offense consists quite heavily of upper body/head/neck attacks, so a submission move that hurts the (lower) back seems to make no sense.

 

Texas Cloverleaf Variations: The low version Dean Malenko is lower back, but I've seen guys like D'Lo Brown use versions that are similar to the Liontamer. What about those?

 

El Paso Lasso: A little tricky for me to tell what body part this hurts.

 

Edge's Edgecator: It's an Edge move...so go figure. It seems like a modified sharpshooter but wouldn't damage the same area. Thoughts?

[Guest HartFan86]

Sharpshooter: This affects the back, correct? I'd thought so, but I think sometimes video games make it work for the legs.

 

Half-Crab/Boston Crab: Same deal with the Sharpshooter, sorta. A little confusion on the target area.

 

Crossface Chicken Wing: I think it is a choke-style hold that also affects the shoulder. Is this correct?

 

Scorpion Death Lock: It looks nearly identical to the Sharpshooter, but I've heard there is a small difference. Also, Sting's offense consists quite heavily of upper body/head/neck attacks, so a submission move that hurts the (lower) back seems to make no sense.

 

Texas Cloverleaf Variations: The low version Dean Malenko is lower back, but I've seen guys like D'Lo Brown use versions that are similar to the Liontamer. What about those?

 

El Paso Lasso: A little tricky for me to tell what body part this hurts.

 

Edge's Edgecator: It's an Edge move...so go figure. It seems like a modified sharpshooter but wouldn't damage the same area. Thoughts?

Sharpshooter: Suppose to be on the lower back, but Bret always worked the legs...so eh.

 

Ditto with Crab. People work on the legs, but it could be used for the lower back.

 

Cross Face Chicken Wing: When done correctly, it's the shoulder and the jaw/neck. If you watch Backlund, he wrenched the guys face and shoulder at the same time. When Bret took it for like 5 minutes at Survivor Series 94, he sold the shoulder after...so it's more the shoulder than anything.

 

Scorpin Death Lock: Sting used it just like the Rock does. It's for a cheap pop. Bret/Owen used it cause that was what their focus of the match was: To build to the Sharpshooter.

 

Texas Cloverleaf: This can do a lot of things. If you REALLY wrench it in, you can work the neck and shoulders, the mid back, and/or the lower back. I suppose you could say it does a little on the knees cause your bending them (sort of), but it's mostly back.

 

El Paso Lasso: Upper body. Eddie just pulls the legs back so the weight is forced on your upper body.

 

Edge: Who the fuck knows...he used it like twice, but if I recall, it was the legs.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Okay, thanks. And Bret also worked the back quite a bit with moves like the backbreaker, russian leg sweep, and would use backdrops and suplexes.

 

However, he did a lot of work on the legs, like jumping on the leg while it was on the ropes. I guess maybe it works both. However, Owen didn't seem to build to the Sharpshooter quite like Bret did.

 

So basically, as I thought, there is no logical reason for Sting to use the SDL. Hmph.

 

And I guess Edgecator is a huge question mark. Not like you can depend on his matches for psychology anyway.

 

And for the Cloverleaf, I guess it is all dependent on the angle applied.

 

And the crabs kinda are like I figured. Shame when you can't keep it straight on just what the psychology of your own move is. *shrug*

[Guest Dace59]

Like it was said, all down to how it's sold, and what the game plan of the attacker is.

 

Other examples are the Muscle Buster.

Generally sold as effecting the neck, but Rey Rey sells it ass effecting the grion and hamstrings

[Guest razazteca]

The 1/2 Crab should affect the knee & back

 

full Crab just the back

 

Lion Tamer would be the back & neck & shoulder

 

Cloverleaf:

 

Jazz style back & neck & shoulder

D-Lo style back and maybe legs

Malenko style can go either way but usually the back because of the set up move but the figure 4 should effect all joints of the legs.

 

it all depend if the set up is turning the opponet over to the side or grabbing the legs than walking over putting more focus on the back. I guess it all depends how mad Jazz or Dean are at the time.

[Guest Mr. Adam]

Sharpshooter: Leg under attacker's arm takes a kneebar and the back is generally streched and spine contorted a wee bit.

 

Half-Crab:Kneebar with added torque on back. Can be increased with optional knee to back ala Benoit.

 

Boston Crab:Same effect as Sharpshooter without the kneebar.

 

Crossface Chicken Wing: Think hammerlock style pain with your head being pulled away from the shoulder. It's all in the shoulder,other choke versions are technically illegal

 

Scorpion Death Lock: Sharpshooter with kinda subpar excecution.

 

Texas Cloverleaf Variations:Back primarily. I've seen Deano Machino use it with a really painful kneebar variant.

 

El Paso Lasso: When used on Mark Henry, Eddy made it look like an anklehold cloverleaf but lately it's just another variant on the sharpshooter

 

Edge's Edgecator: Quads and back. Move is too contrived though.

[Guest Dace59]

Sharpshooter/Scorpion Death Lock:

 

Exact same move. No Differences barring the name.

[Guest godthedog]

bret worked the knee because the setup for the sharpshooter is grabbing your opponent's legs, & you can only lock it on when he can't wiggle his legs out of it. if your back's been worked the whole match & bret grabs you by the feet, you can still thrash your legs around like mad & squirm out of position. if your leg is being worked, it hurts to move it, and hence makes it harder to counter the hold.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

How's about you just do it to a friend/little brother and ask em?

[Guest Dace59]

It doesnt matter what work that anyone uses the hold does.

There are of course common and accepted standards of what you'd sell moves as effecting, or using them to effect. Leg bars on legs, arm bars on arms, DDTs on heads.

But with submissions that start looking cool rather than real life holds, it's not as clear and wrestler have a little room to work with.

 

But from the dozen I know, ir works the back.

The legs are not force in an unnatural way, and the only pressure on them is where they cross, and are forced onto each other, but the torque, due to physics, is all on the lower back.

Like the figure four, doesnt hurt your knee, hurts where your one leg is crossed over the other and forced down onto the bone.

 

The holds are still the same, just used differently.