N Korea threatens to 'destroy world'

[Guest So what? I liked bubble boy]

All this is with Iraq is sercurity, sercurity, SERCURITY. Bush knows what America needs and I feel as though his is a Good president. Again, what doc T said, this isn't going to be a full scale war. This poses a question after all this stupid talk about OIL. Put yourself as the president of the United States, cuba decides that they want to fight against you and make big bombs, you go to war with them and you destory the enemy, you (being smart) take the goods in that country thus making profit and defeating you enemy at the same time. (I.E.) you kill a fool on the street and then you rob him.

[Guest KoR Fungus]

<<<Again, what doc T said, this isn't going to be a full scale war.>>>

 

I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect this to be a short term war if the objective of the war is to invade Iraq and kill Saddam. Bombing the shit out of Iraq until they surrendered the Gulf War was one thing, but a full fledged invasion is quite a different matter. Pushing into Iraq and trying to kill someone who's location at any given time is unknown will take a lot of time, and will probably result in a lot of casualties. I'm expecting this war to be a lot more costly than many people expect, and I'm going to be interested in seeing whether support for the war stays as strong as it is now if the war does turn out to be long and a good number of American soldiers end up dying.

[Guest J*ingus]

Yes, Russia along with some allies will attack Israel someday (Read Ezekiel chapter 38).

How in the world did you infer that from Ezekiel? It talks about the neighboring Middle East countries going to war, not Russia. And it speaks very specifically about large numbers of fighters wielding swords and spears, great companies of mounted cavalry, and so on. I kinda doubt any modern war would involve those.

[Guest NoCalMike]

All this is with Iraq is sercurity, sercurity, SERCURITY. Bush knows what America needs and I feel as though his is a Good president. Again, what doc T said, this isn't going to be a full scale war. This poses a question after all this stupid talk about OIL. Put yourself as the president of the United States, cuba decides that they want to fight against you and make big bombs, you go to war with them and you destory the enemy, you (being smart) take the goods in that country thus making profit and defeating you enemy at the same time. (I.E.) you kill a fool on the street and then you rob him.

THis war will be nothing like the tank shooting desert battles of Desert Storm fame. We would be(will be) invading cities where ANYTHING can happen. High amounts of casulties is already pretty much a forgone conclusion as Bush and Rumsfield have already tried to prepare us. As far as "taking Iraq's oil" is concerned. Bush has listed his objectives as destroying and neutralizing any weapons of mass destruction and taking out the Hussein regime. He knows for a fact that he can't come out and just tell us what he really wants. Like I have stated before, Oil is not the SOLE reason for this war, but it is a big part and to think this won't be a full scale war is just silly. You don't go to a country to take out military targets and then tell the people, oh by the way, you have no more resources we own them all now, umm go and try to manufacture sand into something more useful.....buh bye~!

 

Also, what "security" are you speaking of? Don't tell me you buy into Bush's spiel about Iraq being responsible for 9/11. Look, Hussien is no angel we all know it, but almost every threat he has made against us, has come after we decide we are going to go drop bombs on Iraq. We have been bombing them for years.

 

The "stupid talk about oil" is not stupid at all, it is raising questions about our presidents decisions, and that is part of democracy. I suppose I could just sit through every speech by bush with hands folded on my lap with a big grin on my face, followed by me saying, "gee golly what a great guy" but then I would just be another robot.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Why are high casualties a forgone conclusion? No one knows what the Iraqi military will do. Will they fight to the death, or will they immediatley give up.

 

So you think a post Hussein Iraq, led by probably the U.N. won't allow the Iraqi people to use the country's resources.

 

Bush never said Iraq was involved with 9/11, member of his administration said Al Qaeda and Iraq have ties, and independent sources have linked Al Qaeda with Iraq.

 

Why would you think that the U.S. and it's allies won't let the people of Iraq use their own resources?

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Put yourself as the president of the United States, cuba decides that they want to fight against you and make big bombs, you go to war with them and you destory the enemy, you (being smart) take the goods in that country thus making profit and defeating you enemy at the same time.

I don't understand. Put yourself in Saddam Hussein's shoes.

 

1. Planes crash into world trade center. Bush vows to destroy all terrorists and rogue states.

 

2. Bush names Iraq, who was only doing some minor saber-rattling and still hasn't been exposed as having solid proof of WoMD, as acountry in his "axis of evil" when describing who's ass he wants to kick.

 

3. Iraq starts inviting the inspectors back again, because Bush has all but taken over Afghanistan.

 

Somehow all of this is Iraq's fault? If the president of the world's more powerful country names your country as evil and starts to invade other countries he has named evil, what are you going to do? Just sit around and wait for him to kick North Korea's ass and then come after you?

 

 

ALSO: To act like Bush has no interest in taking Iraq's oil and is only after WoMD... Did you really need to watch the entire Scooby-Doo cartoon to realize that it wasn't an actual ghost haunting the fairgrounds at night?

[Guest So what? I liked bubble boy]

Also, what "security" are you speaking of?  Don't tell me you buy into Bush's spiel about Iraq being responsible for 9/11.  Look, Hussien is no angel we all know it, but almost every threat he has made against us, has come after we decide we are going to go drop bombs on Iraq.  We have been bombing them for years.

 

The "stupid talk about oil" is not stupid at all, it is raising questions about our presidents decisions, and that is part of democracy.  I suppose I could just sit through every speech by bush with hands folded on my lap with a big grin on my face, followed by me saying, "gee golly what a great guy" but then I would just be another robot.

First of all, I don't remember Bush blaming 9-11 on Iraq. Second, this talk on Oil is stupid, the only people to argue the fact are the people saying: "The only reason were getting into this war is because Bush is greedy and he wants the oil". Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. By the way robots are cool.

[Guest NoCalMike]

I never said that "bush is greedy and wants oil" as I NEVER said Oil was the "only" reason we are going to war. As far as high casulties, we are going into cities this time around with ground troops, not tanks and jets, so not only will we be killing a lot of innocent civilians but in turn anyone with a gun will have the ability to shoot at our military personel.

 

When you have a war in the middle of the desert, for the most part it is going to be your front line against mine, however if it is in a highly populated city like Bagdhad, you can expect a lot more people than the Iraq army to be involved, add to that, the fact that we have no idea what other rogue armies will be getting involved. I just hope if we do go to war, we at least wait until we find a good amount of WOMD....

[Guest cartman]

Ya know, I am as American as the next guy but some people are just TOO American to even THINK that their beloved President could have alterior motives. I agree with almost everything NoCalMike says in that George wants some friggin oil.

 

ALso lets not be so stupid as to thinking that 9/11 was a complete and total "suprise attack" on the US. People knew, and if you are one who believes that it couldnt have been prevented than you are really selling our intelligence as a country short. Sadam and Bin Laden are both alive and well, will remain that way for a long time, and are certainly not living in fear of their lives because they know that all this is just a way to make money for everyone. The US and themselves.

 

Anyone that believes that money isnt the single driving power behind mankind's decisions these days is just foolish. Everyone is out to make their own lives comfortable with total disregard to the future of anyone else or even their own children. Look at the morons who are chopping down rainforests everyday. If it wasnt for the money being made in THAT deal, just like the Oil deal, then there would be no issue and our future wouldnt be in such question. Greed and Deciet are rampant in this world and it's becoming more and more apparent that those two specific things will eventually be the demise of human kind.

 

That may sound morbid and ridiculous to most of you but it's true. One thing I love is all the tree huggers yelling "Save the Planet!"...well I got news for ya, the planet is fine, WE, as the dominant life form that occupies this planet, are screwed. Like George Carlin says, one day the planet is just going to shake us off like a bad disease and start over again with something else...just like it has millions of years ago.

 

Where will your "God" be then?

[Guest DrTom]

I agree with almost everything NoCalMike says in that George wants some friggin oil.

But we don't NEED it. If we were in the middle of an oil crisis like we had in the late 70's, then I'd be inclined to agree with you. But considering how many other countries we can get oil from (and how much we ourselves have, both in reserves and shale), we just don't need Saddam's oil supply. And let's say we squash Iraq and take their oil. How does it help us? We still have to pay to refine it, then to barrel it, then to ship it over to our own country. Really, how much would we be saving?

 

ALso lets not be so stupid as to thinking that 9/11 was a complete and total "suprise attack" on the US. People knew...

No one "knew." Some people suspected something might be in the works, but no one knew for sure. A few people in the FBI and CIA were concered about all the Mohammeds and Habibs in flight school, who were only learning a select few lessons about flying a plane. They suspected an airplane could be used in an attack, but had no idea when, or from where. What could be done, though? "Extra security" at airports is always a joke. Considering the terrorists took over the planes with box cutters, they were ready for our security measures. You can't stop or significantly impede air traffic because there might be a terrorist plot in the works. I think when all was said and done on September 11th, the scope of the attack left a lot of people surprised.

 

I really can't quibble with the last two paragrpahs you posted, except to say that I don't think greed and deceit are the driving forces behind our actions now.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

A few people in the FBI and CIA were concered about all the Mohammeds and Habibs in flight school

Oh man.. I could bust out the prejudice label but I don't want to make this thread any worse.

 

Don Rumsfeld had predicted an attack in the next five years sometime during 2000-2001. Some people thought he was being an idiot and just tyring to get a bigger defense budget.

 

Now, I don't like Rumsfeld, but I'll give him that one.

[Guest So what? I liked bubble boy]

That may sound morbid and ridiculous to most of you but it's true. One thing I love is all the tree huggers yelling "Save the Planet!"...well I got news for ya, the planet is fine, WE, as the dominant life form that occupies this planet, are screwed. Like George Carlin says, one day the planet is just going to shake us off like a bad disease and start over again with something else...just like it has millions of years ago.

 

Where will your "God" be then?

Well hopefully, by the time that the Earth faces another mass extinction, we will have developed the technology to colonize other planets and find new ones to live on.

 

That may not be a ridiculous stretch, seeing as you don't know when such a thing will happen again. It may be only 10 years, 100 years or 5 billion years away.

 

And bringing religion into these kinds of arguments to spur up new arguments gets annoying. Generally because it leads to nowhere. Fast.

Thanks for clearing that up. What do you call this "way of life" anyways, battlefeild earth?

[Guest Dopey]

But, if we did anything to Saudi Arabia, then it'd be baaaaaaaad. Right?

Not at all. I'd love to see us blow that despicable hole off the map. It's not going to happen, though, so I'd settle for cutting all political, economic, and military ties, and let those terrorism supporters twist in the wind. They'd better hope they find a way to EAT crude oil if that ever happens.

Here, here!!!

[Guest NoCalMike]

But, if we did anything to Saudi Arabia, then it'd be baaaaaaaad. Right?

Not at all. I'd love to see us blow that despicable hole off the map. It's not going to happen, though, so I'd settle for cutting all political, economic, and military ties, and let those terrorism supporters twist in the wind. They'd better hope they find a way to EAT crude oil if that ever happens.

Here, here!!!

Well I am sure everyone agrees that the TERRORISTS can eat the crude oil for all we care, however terrorists don't make up the majority of ANY COUNTRY known to man, so it is pretty lame to suggest cutting off every resource to an entire country just to deal with a handful of terrorists.

[Guest Dopey]

Anyone that believes that money isnt the single driving power behind mankind's decisions these days is just foolish.

Where will your "God" be then?

My friend, there are dimensions and beings living in those dimensions that you are probably not aware of. One in particular is called lucifer. A being you never want to encounter. This filthy vile spirit, is behind a lot of dealings with nations behind closed doors. Yes, I grant you that most decisions of man are $$ based, however, there are unseen forces which do play a part in mans decisions.

 

And in the end, GOD will be standing tall ruling His creation.

[Guest Dopey]

Well I am sure everyone agrees that the TERRORISTS can eat the crude oil for all we care, however terrorists don't make up the majority of ANY COUNTRY known to man, so it is pretty lame to suggest cutting off every resource to an entire country just to deal with a handful of terrorists.

I don't know about that NorCal-Mike. If we cut off all resources to a country like that, first of all they wouldn't die. They'd just get there resources from somewhere else. Second, they would be taught a great lesson: Don't let terrorist train and roam freely in your country.

 

Or we could just turn them to glass.

[Guest DrTom]

QUOTE (DrTom @ Jan 4 2003, 12:39 PM)

A few people in the FBI and CIA were concered about all the Mohammeds and Habibs in flight school

 

Oh man.. I could bust out the prejudice label but I don't want to make this thread any worse.

You could, but then you'd be wrong. People in the FBI used terms very much like that when discussing the flight school situation after September 11th. They had checked flight school registrations, and found a large number of Arab men taking rather incomplete courses. One chap in the FBI said something very similar to, "If you wanted to find out what was going on, you don't just pull people out of the schools. You get the class lists and you question every Mohammed and Ahmed you see."

 

He was right. Put whatever label you want on it, and that doesn't change.