Good news and Bad news

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

i know im not trying to say you cant hate rvd, i know kahran does, but he has valid reasons for it.  the way you are saying it, you think rvd sucks because it is the *cool* thing to think.  if you can give me one reason of your own (not paraphrasing others) then i will respect you, but otherwise, stop pretending.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

btw that post was made in reference to Hogan Made Wrestling, not anybody else

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

"a)What do you think the average age is there? If the average age for a wrestler to retire is about 37 or so, three of those four don't have much longer to go. New people have to come up."

 

And which exactly are those? Benoit is 34, and he is the oldest of the 5 guys I mentioned. Rock, HHH, Jericho, and Angle are all in their late 20s or early 30s.

 

"b) No, but you don't have much say in the matter. Van Dam has every right to be elevated because the fans like him."

 

By the same logic, the Undertaker has every right to be main eventing because the fans like him, yet every time he is people start to bitch and whine about it.

 

"A.  You can't reference Keith's opinions as facts"

 

Oh wow, I guess you can't tell the difference between quoting someone and "facts". Here's one for you though: you can't pass off all these stupid net rumours about HHH as facts.

 

"Your really reaching to justify your blind hatred...which is amusing given your love of a man with no discernable talent."

 

Funnily enough, the exact same thing can be said about you: reaching to justify your blind hatred of HHH with dirtsheet gossip and similar nonsense, and love of a man with no discernable talent (RVD).

[Guest Anglesault]

A note about RVD's selling. He does look like he gets hurt, but his long term selling is miserable. I HATED that he was able to pop right up after the ***** after a back injury against Goldie. Same thing with the leg and Storm.  If you are injured the whole match, don't just POP UP after your finisher. Do the slow crawl or something.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

his selling on raw was very good, among the best i have seen in the wwf in a while, especially on free tv.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Someone isn't in on the HHH joke.

 

That's sad.

 

But I use that to seperate the marks from the knowledgable posters.

 

It never fails.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

"i know im not trying to say you cant hate rvd, i know kahran does, but he has valid reasons for it.  the way you are saying it, you think rvd sucks because it is the *cool* thing to think.  if you can give me one reason of your own (not paraphrasing others) then i will respect you, but otherwise, stop pretending."

 

I find it funny how if anyone doesn't like RVD, then they have a mad throng of RVD marks (some of whom only like him to stick up for the latest supposed "held-down" midcarder) demanding they justify their opinion. But since you asked:

 

1. RVD's "wrestling" can only be losely described as such, it's really more like gymnastics. First of all, anyone who claims RVD doesn't "fit in" with the WWF style is an idiot, because 90% of his offense is kicks, and the other 10% is spots and signature moves (although sometimes those percentages change), and that fits in perfectly. If there is anything about his style that doesn't fit in, it's the fact that most wrestlers in the WWF were trained not to bust their opponents open before they got there, whereas RVD had to go through over a half-dozen potatoe incidents before he caught on.

 

2. RVD's mic skills are laughably bad. In one of the only long interview segments he had (with Austin), he used the "word" umm far more times than I have ever heard used before in a wrestling promo. He can't display any emotions, and his delivery is on the level of Mark Madden.

 

3. RVD cannot play a heel, because he is a mark for himself in the ring and just has to get people chanting for him with his spots and poses. The only time he has ever drawn heel heat was when the moronic ECW mutants did their stupid "you sold out" chant towards him.

 

I could go on, but I have better things to do.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

My main problem with RVD's mic skills is his carefree attitude.  If he doesn't care about his opponent, then why should I care about the match?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Oh...those "you sold out" chants at Barely Legal that were followed by two GREAT promos by RVD?

 

If RVD does gymnastics what does Hogan do?  Crawl?  Give me gymnastics.  Althougn I fail to see where this gymnastics thing came from...you are just one of about 10 people who post that as the reason they don't like RVD.  Eventhough he still had the MOTN on Raw (which was pretty much unanimous...even your god SK agreed...so it *must* be fact)

 

So if someone has a different style they are bad.

 

That's what your reasoning breaks down to.

 

 

Another person who uses "ECW mutants" in their post.

 

Where are these phrases coming from...and why do I think if I read Keith's stuff more often I'd find them?

 

Hogan made Wrestling is just another sheep.

 

From now on all your posts must contain the word Baa.

 

In fact make that your quote.

 

Go ahead and throw in the cliche's "ECW mutants" and "Gymnastics" too...

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

ok, valid points, and you are now afforded non-sheep status in my eyes at least.

 

1. about 90% of the roster would not be classed as wrestlers by your logic.  teams like the hardy boys (poor example i know) do little more than gymnastic moves as well.  austin and undertaker are little more than brawlers who throw punches and kicks and the occasional spin move.  so thus by your logic, a lot of other high profile wrestlers are thus shithouse, etc.

 

2. his mic skills are fitting his gimmick at the moment as 'laid-back, cool rvd.'  and while his skills are not up to the level of jericho or rock, they are servicable, and as long as he has a definite script he can fulfil his role and get his point across.  case in point raw on monday and the no way out promo he did.

 

3. you are right here, though he really does play a heel, but wwf attitude has warped fan perception so that what would once have been a heel is now a mega-over face.  there are others who have difficulty playing other roles too, hhh is having a less than stellar run as a face, and last year while austin played a heel well, it simply didnt catch on.  although you are right, it isnt his gimmick which makes it impossible for him to be heel, rather it is his moveset which for a lack of a better word electrifies the crowd and gets them excited.  how can you possibly boo that?

[Guest]

Bps, let's come back to reality. This is an internet wrestling forum, not MENSA.  Just because someone doesn't get your lame, tired HHH "joke" doesn't mean they are any less intelligent than you or any of the so-called knowledgeable posters.

 

And how is this HHH thing a joke anyway? You make it known than you don't care for HHH and for a joke, I've seen you and others ruin numerous threads going back and forth about HHH and RVD "conspiracies." It seems you take it quite seriously for a "joke." Other posters have called you numerous times on turning everthing into an RVD loving/HHH bashing fest. For the first week on the new board, other posters were forced to endure topic after topic of RVD loving and HHH/Test bashing. Finally, some other people came to the board and some other dicussions sprang up, too bad though that you post about 6x as much as the average poster, with about 60% of your content pertaining to your ridiculous conspiracies. If it's a joke, let it die.

 

You used to be a well rounded poster. Now you're like a Bizarro Anglesault. It's pretty sad I can stand him and his Test bashing more than I can stand your blind love affair with RVD. If anyone DARE mention a flaw RVD may have, they are pounced upon by you and called a stupid idiot, mark, etc.  Hell, if they don't even register for the board you get pissy.  Hello, it's a message board! No one's stepping on your toes by saving a few minutes by not registering.

 

If a guy doesn't like RVD, live with it. He can have a diferent opinion and he doesn't have to explain it. People hate Test and they don't have to explain themselves. Same goes for X-Pac and UT. So please, lighten up. I like RVD, but you're starting to make me go sour on the guy because you make him out to be the savior of all things WWF.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Oh no, the RVD mark is getting mad because not everyone likes his favorite "wrestler" and so he has to start throwing around dumb little smart mark insults like "sheep".

 

I'm too busy to waste anyone time defending the fact that I (like many other people) don't like RVD. So I'm done with this thread for now. I'm sure now you are going to throw some sort of "Yay! Smarks win again!" celebration like you did in the Rock/Austin thread, but at this point I don't really care.

 

Oh and Best Buy Team Member Since 2002: Nice post, I agree with everything you said.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

well im not bps, but i am an rvd mark, and what pisses me off is when people hate him just because it is the cool thing to do, or because SK dislikes him.  if they have valid reasons (kahran, HMW just gave decent enough reasons for my care), then they can go ahead and hate him for all i care.  what i cant stand are all the sheep and posers who just try and be *smarkier* than each other.

[Guest]

Oh, Bps, while you're on the subject of cliches, you used a very common one; the old "since you read SK, you must think he is a god." Well, maybe the guy just agrees with his opinions on RVD. I guarantee you if that guy posted an SK quote with praise for Van Dam, you would have said nothing at all, or applauded it. But since it was criticism you got offended. So that makes you a sheep yourself, or in your language.........

 

Baaaah, baaah, bah, baaah, baaah R-V-D (points to self) baaaaah-baaah-baaah.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

"If a guy doesn't like RVD, live with it. He can have a diferent opinion and he doesn't have to explain it. "

 

I don't like RVD, and bps doesn't give me any problems with it.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

as ive said, people can dislike rvd if they choose, but if they come here are trumpet how much he sucks then they should be prepared to back it up with reason and evidence.  as bps had to when he was in his whole triple h hate phase a few weeks back.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

It's funny that I was on so many people's best poster lists and yet they all have to "endure" me.

 

I, myself point out flaws that RVD has.

 

However; I fail to see the problem with defending inaccuracies that people post in their "blind" hatred.

 

As I've stated on many occassions:  Heel HHH is one of my favorites.  And when his in ring work wasn't garbage...so was HHH the wrestler.

 

If he wants to position himself as the #1 face in the company and the man to get the title shot at WrestleMania (despite not being the most over and hardly decent in the ring at this point) then he is open to my criticism of him.

 

Which is either always fair or followed by the word:  hmmmmmm.....

 

I don't know why I am the main topic of concern for so many people.  I guess there is no middle ground for me.  Love me or Hate me.  It doesn't really matter.

 

I always back up my comments with facts and thoughtful arguments.

 

So Bite Me.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I don't give Kahran a hard time because he is able to put his dislike aside and comment on what he sees.

 

For example.  He thought RVD vs. Storm was the best match on Raw.

 

He hates RVD but he can still have an unbiased opinion.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I also back up my dislike for RVD with reasoning.  I find that his flaws (and I agree basically with bps on what those flaws are) far overshadow his positive traits.  I don't like the hardcore style in general, and with RVD that is a problem.  I don't like Jeff Hardy either, and if anything those flaws are even more glaring with him.  If RVD wrestles all of his matches like he did with Storm on Monday, I wouldn't be nearly as critical with him.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I see nothing good coming out of this thread, so please... just let it die.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

actually, people are explaining their reasons and it is resulting in fairly intelligent conversation, i'd say a fair bit is coming out of the thread.

[Guest cabbageboy]

The amusing thing about this flame war here is that even Keith has sort of come around to RVD, at least he isn't saying how overrated he is and is generally liking his WWF work.  He even said RVD may have been the most improved wrestler of the past year.  

 

In terms of RVD's ability to wrestle, hell what does it matter?  If I wanted legit wrestling I would watch a college amateur meet.  I want the WWF to entertain me.

 

As far as this ratings thing on the topic, who cares?  I think it is mostly based on what quarter hour you are booked in and against what opponent.  In some cases like the Godfather (who has no heat anymore) I can see why he is driving away 160,000 viewers.  Booker T actually draws NEGATIVE heat these days so I can see it, ditto Jazz.  

 

Hmmm....if anyone wants to start a race thread here about 3 of the biggest ratings killers being black, it might get some replies.  It might just be a coincidence, I dunno.  Rock is a big ratings draw, though few people would really ID him as black for whatever reason.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Well, I had typed that before the last few posts, but my slow ass dial-up sucks balls.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Well...fun was had by all.

 

And now I sleep.

 

Flame me in my absence...or I'll think you don't love me anymore.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Booker is a ratings killer because of how he is booked.  It doesn't matter whether he is black or white.  DDP has the exact same problem as Booker.

[Guest Anglesault]

If a guy doesn't like RVD, live with it. He can have a diferent opinion and he doesn't have to explain it. People hate Test and they don't have to explain themselves.

Are you saying I have never explained myself on that matter?

[Guest humongous2002]

I don't believe in those ratings, come on Steph +125,000? she's the real poison for the wwf not the NWOld. And RVD has improved a lot since his ECW days (when he used to fuck up a lot of moves, do a lot of stalling, and no selling) all he needs is a meaningful push and more promo time.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I agree with humongous2002.

 

And i think it's a little unfair to criticize RVD's promo's when he doesn't get any...and the ones he does get are more than serviceable.

 

That's just bandwagon jumping.

 

One of the knocks on RVD has always been his promos...so even if he cuts good one's people just keep on knocking...

 

Although I do agree with Rasmus' take that he comes off not carring about his opponent.  But that's what he's told to do...Remember when he interrupted JEricho's promo on smackdown and had a mic...but instead just ran down and attacked him?  And the announcers plaid up how focused on Jericho he was...and that he wasn't his usual laid back self?  That seemed to work fine...what ever happened to that program?

[Guest Loss4Words]

Well, the feud had no heat so it was dropped. Rock v Jericho had a lot of momentum and better backstory. They also had better chemistry on the mic and in the ring. It was the better decision.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

No heat?

 

I have to disagree there.

 

The pop when the crowd thought that RVD had won the belts was tremendous.  And the next show on Smackdown...RVD got one of his loudest pops when he came out to interrupt Jericho's promo.  The crowd was eating it up.  Compare that to HHH interrupting Jericho after the Rumble to a much smaller reaction.  AND THAT'S MAIN EVENTING WRESTLEMANIA!

 

Yes there was MORE of a backstory to Rock vs. Jericho IV...but there was A backstory to RVD vs. Jericho III.  And it's never a good decision to keep running back to the smae thing all the time.

 

And there HAD to be something more to it...you don't go from prospective Main Event at the Rumble...to lasting exactly 2 minutes in the ring at the ppv...