Kurt Cobain Murdered?

[Guest Lethargic]

I've been around that woman for a couple of hours before. I've met her, talked to her. My band opened for Hole years ago before they broke and were still playing crappy little clubs like my band played. I don't think she was even with Kurt yet or least nobody knew of it yet. But man, if that woman isn't on drugs than her brain just plain doesn't work right.

[Guest Anglesault]

By the way, if anyone else can't see Lethargic's post (I had to hit reply to see it in the last 10. It wasn't showing up) Here it is.

 

I've been around that woman for a couple of hours before. I've met her, talked to her. My band opened for Hole years ago before they broke and were still playing crappy little clubs like my band played. I don't think she was even with Kurt yet or least nobody knew of it yet. But man, if that woman isn't on drugs than her brain just plain doesn't work right

[Guest Insanityman]

Well either way Cobain is dead. I'd like to think it wasn't a suicide and that Courtney did it, okay I think she did, but it wouldn't change anything.

[Guest cabbageboy]

I wonder, has anyone at all heard anything about the neighbors being questioned? I would think that someone would have seen some dude sneak in if there had been a murder. Maybe no one was home or was asleep, it's hard to say.

 

There are several logic gaps in it, things that always struck me bizarre. Why even shoot up on that much heroin if you are going to blow your brains out? What exactly is the point? He had to have realized that if he took that much heroin it would have fucked him up big time, it's not like he'd never done the stuff. And if he himself took the heroin it seems quite unlikely that he would be able to shoot himself with a shotgun.

 

Second, why kill yourself with a shotgun? A pistol is a much easier weapon to use, all you do is put it in your mouth and click. A shotgun seems a lot more difficult to use, particularly when stoned out of your mind.

 

The whole thing reeks of a really badly done amateur hit job. The irony is that the cops never bothered to look too much into it, just found his body, found a note, said it was suicide.

 

I've never thought Courtney herself did it because I'd imagine her whereabouts for that time could be accounted for.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

After watching the documentery Kurt and Courtney a while back it led me to the opinion Kurt killed himself. You get a great sense of Kurt's state of mind after talking to Francis' nanny and Kurt's friends.

 

The Big Van Vader S&M hitman guy and then his sudden death was wierd.

 

Why not shot up a bunch of heroin if you want to die? He wasn't thinking rationally at that point, he was too desperate and wanted out. Despite some saying the amount of heroin in Kurt's system would have rendered him unable to use a shotgun it's been proven a junkie of his magnitude could still function well enough to do it.

 

When you're intent on killing yourself you wouldn't care if it's a pistol or a shotgun you'd only be interested in getting the job done. Kurt was fascinated with guns, maybe he just chose a shotgun because that was all that was available at the time.

 

 

 

To go off topic a bit. Does anyone think Layne Staley commited suicide or did he overdose by accident? He apparently died on the same date Kurt died(April 5th) on but his body wasn't found for weeks.

[Guest DrTom]

Second, why kill yourself with a shotgun? A pistol is a much easier weapon to use, all you do is put it in your mouth and click.

If you want to make sure you finish the job, use a shotgun. It's guaranteed to basically obliterate your skull and everything in it. Many pistols won't do that, and you can even shoot yourself in such a way that you remain alive, but a vegetable. The general guideline for shooting yourself in the head with a gun in your mouth is "shoot back, not up." This is very true of pistols, but with a shotgun, it doesn't really matter.

[Guest Anglesault]

The general guideline for shooting yourself in the head with a gun in your mouth is "shoot back, not up."

I did not know. I figured it would be the *other* way.

 

::Files it in "information I will never use" category::

[Guest evenflowDDT]

::Files it in "information that might be useful some day... sigh, life is worthless, nobody cares about me, my life sucks...

 

...

 

just kidding!" category::

[Guest DrTom]

I figured it would be the *other* way.

A lot of people do, actually. The thing is, shooting straight back destroys the brain stem, severing the brain's connection to the spinal cord and killing the person. Shooting straight up will certainly put a bullet in someone's brain, but it won't always be fatal, and they might live on as a vegetable. Using a shotgun (either way) guarantees you a coffin.

 

And that brings Suicide Techniques 101 to a close...

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

The general guideline for shooting yourself in the head with a gun in your mouth is "shoot back, not up."

I did not know. I figured it would be the *other* way.

 

::Files it in "information I will never use" category::

Just wait until Brock goes over Angle at WM....

[Guest Dopey]

Better late than never. Kurt popped himself. Physical problems and emotional.

Some of the arguments for murder intrigue me, but I'm sorry, it still sounds like he just wanted out.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Well, here's a picture of a shotgun being used that way. It's really brutal.

 

This one's even sicker.

[Guest Matt Young]

Well, here's a picture of a shotgun being used that way. It's really brutal.

 

This one's even sicker.

Christ man, that was disgusting. Anyway, since I don't feel the ened to repeat tons of opinions, I pretty much share the same beliefs as Cobain Was Murdered.

[Guest The Bad Guy]

I personally believe that Kurt Cobain did not commit suicide. It would be impossible for him to have done so. Let us review the facts...

 

The guy presenting the theories, Tom Grant, has had a career spanning over thirty years. It would be pointless to Tom Grant to risk his career on this theory if he did not believe that it was true and had evidence to back it up.

 

Kurt Cobain had 1.52 mg/l level of morphine in his blood. This indicates that he took 225-240 mg of heroin. This would immediately incapacitate Cobain. 225-240 mg of heroin is three times the lethal dose for ANY heroin user, regardless of tolerance. No one to date has been able to find a case where a person took anywhere near the amount of heroin Kurt Cobain did and proceeded to take a gun to their head. This is discussed heavily in the Roger Lewis essay "Dead Men Don't Pull Triggers". Later Bradley Speers wrote a rebuttal to "Dead Men Don't Pull Triggers" which met a response from Roger Lewis. These are available at justiceforkurt.com

 

There were no legible fingerprints on the gun, the pen, or anything else in the greenhouse where Cobain's body was found. While this does not necessarily prove anything, as prints could become non-legible by a variety of means, normally one would expect to find at least one legible print in the greenhouse.

 

The gun was also fully loaded with three shells. A suicidal person would not be likely to fully load a gun to kill themselves when only one shot is required. The shotgun shell was also found on THE WRONG side of the body. "The police reports say that the shotgun was inverted with the trigger and magazine trap door pointing up (Follow-Up Report, Page 3). That would place the Ejection Port of the gun (where the shell pops out after the weapon is fired) to Kurt's right. If he shot himself with the shotgun facing this direction, the shell should have been found to his right. Why was it found to his left, on his Corduroy jacket?" - justiceforkurt.com

 

Also Kurt was very short, it's been questioned before, could he have even reached the trigger on that gun?

 

The missing person's report on Kurt was filed April 4, 1994 by Courtney Love... however she filed it claiming she was Kurt's mother Wendy O'Connor. Also in the missing person's report she says that Cobain "bought a shotgun and may be suicidal". Dylan Carlson [Kurt's friend] claims that the gun was purchased on March 30th prior to Cobain going to rehab and was bought for protection. This date is verified by the shotgun receipt. If Cobain was going to kill himself why go to rehab, escape rehab, then kill yourself?

 

Also, Cobain's stomach pains were mentioned earlier as a reason for him wanting to kill himself. These were supposedly gone by March of 1994. They had apparently been diagnosed as a pinched nerve related to his scoliosis.

 

Cobain was also interested in getting a divorce from Courtney Love. Courtney had called her and Kurt's attorney Rosemary Caroll asking her to get the "meanest, most vicious, divorce lawyer" she could get. Kurt had also called wanting to get Courtney written out of his will.

 

Then we must figure in El Duce. Duce stated that he had been offered $50,000 to kill Kurt Cobain. He declined the offer and mentioned that he knew a guy who would do it. Supposedly this man was named Allen Wrench. Wrench claims he did not do anything, which Tom Grant has confirmed. However it is entirely possible that Wrench did kill El Duce. As far as I know Wrench is the last person to have seen El Duce alive.

 

I believe this information is enough to cause some serious doubt about a ruling of suicide.