Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 Look at RAW results from it's beginning until even through 1998. Mostly squash matches with every once in a while a really good match. It made the PPV matches all that more important as good wrestling could only be seen on the PPV. I think that had we not gotten so many really good RAWS we wouldn't complain. Of course RAW is an hour longer. That means you have to spread excellence over two hours. I'm not saying I like RAW now and I've been spoiled too and in some instances it's not being spoiled, the show just plain sucks. This Monday's RAW was definitely the typical old RAW with main eventers in a non-match segment to hype, random singles matches, a squash, comedy, and that really good match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted January 5, 2003 There is no excuse for the product as of late, and that's that. We do not ask for perfection each week, just something that is at least passable that LEADS somewhere, without politics and crap always getting in the way. I believe that almost any one of us here could write two hours of TV a week and be better than what is on RAW as of late, and I'm dead serious about that. There just isn't any excuse for the product being as bad as it is right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 "and in some instances it's not being spoiled, the show just plain sucks." What I'm saying is that that NEVER used to be the case on RAW or it used to be hardly ever. Random singles matches. It's just after everyone realized that you CAN have RAWs with great matches and purposes to those great matches without it being on PPV that people complained. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the pinjockey Report post Posted January 5, 2003 But they didn't use to have anything close to the roster they have now otherwise they most likely would have been putting on shows like this back then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted January 5, 2003 "and in some instances it's not being spoiled, the show just plain sucks." What I'm saying is that that NEVER used to be the case on RAW or it used to be hardly ever. Random singles matches. It's just after everyone realized that you CAN have RAWs with great matches and purposes to those great matches without it being on PPV that people complained. So since the show sucked before it was great, should be a reason that it should suck now? I don't get what your's saying. The shows suck, period, and there's no excuse for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 No I'm saying that it was basically like this before but we've gotten the taste of greatness and it spoiled us so it enhances the anger and complaceny knowing you can greatness and you get crap then when you just knew what you had in front of you with no precedent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheArchiteck Report post Posted January 5, 2003 Well I can say Raw was better than Smackdown this week in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Steviekick Report post Posted January 5, 2003 Hell's yeah...great matches edited down to just a collection of spots and unique sequences is always more entertaining than watching a geriatric man get married to a much hotter and younger member of the female species. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 I KINDA miss the old style to Raw. However, I've gotten used to how it is now. But still, I do believe that there's no REAL excuse for them doing as bad as they are right now on the show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted January 5, 2003 Yeah know, the product has been pretty bad lately, but you can't really blame Vince. He has been running this business for 20 some odd years. Do you really think that he can come up with great storylines ALL the time? No, that isn't fair to say. If any of us were ahead of WWE, do you think we could come up with great storylines all the time? Nope. I would come up with some great stuff, some good stuff, and some shitty stuff. For example, Seinfeld, one of the greatest comedies in the modern era. Were some of the episodes great? Yes. Were some of them good? Yes. Were some of the terrible? Yes. Even a great show like Seinfeld can have its lows. Seinfeld was around for 9 years and made only about 22 episodes a year, each 22 minutes. Now WWE makes about 264 mintues of programs a month, not including the 3 hours of PPV each month. Now Vince makes the same amount of programing in a year and 4 months than Seinfeld made it's whole run on television. Give the man a break for the mistakes he makes. Wrestling has its ups and downs. Right now it's in a down period. In a few years, there will be another boom period. Vince will be on the top of his game, and we will be happy. Just take what is good right now in wrestling, and appreciate that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 Yeah...I suffered through the last few days of WCW thinking about the good things in the company, and ignoring the bad things. If more people would do that, everyone would be a bit happier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Raven_Effect01 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 But ECW and WCW are no longer around to compete with WWE, and WWE is now experiencing the problems WCW had that led to their demise two years ago(politics, same main-eventers on top, laughable production, booking-on-the-fly, a bad creative team, etc.), with the only difference(a bad one, I might add) is that WWE has limited talented wrestlers' movesets and changed their ring styles to the point that they become predictable in their matches for the past few years. Since the ratings are now in the low 3's, it seems evident that WWE may never recover from them and could be the next to go under if Vince can't get a better creative team and start using different thinking of how WWE should function instead of going for quick fixes, shoving sports-entertainment down our throats, letting HHH and Steph screw the booking up, and not giving certain talented mid-carders pushes just because they're either too small or they were made stars by rival promotions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PhillyDogg Report post Posted January 5, 2003 I still blame Vince for being so damn thick headed meaing he still thinks most people don't like a "Wrasslin show". I think its ironic that most people would rather watch "WWF Classics" instead of watching the WWE's current crap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted January 5, 2003 WWE has limited talented wrestlers' movesets and changed their ring styles to the point that they become predictable in their matches for the past few years Are you talking about the infamous "WWE Main Event Style"? If so, then that could be changed within a matter of seconds. Just tell the wrestlers to not do this, and they'll be set. WWE has the most talented roster in North American history, I think they could change that. Since the ratings are now in the low 3's, it seems evident that WWE may never recover from them WWE had the same problem during the early and mid 90's. When Hogan was at his peak, the other boom period, he used to pull higher ratings than SCSA did. So when the ratings dropped down, they went back up again. Don't worry, this is a down time for wrestling, it will come back up again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Raven_Effect01 Report post Posted January 5, 2003 WWE had the same problem during the early and mid 90's. I know, but that was around the time they had WCW competing with them. It's not just the ratings though, it's the attendence, the buyrates, and fan confidence that's also gone down for WWE because Vince has a horrendous creative team that writes shit like necrophilia and the Dawn Marie/Al Wilson angle, and Vince keeps going for backstage cancer quick fixes like Scott Steiner and Goldberg(though hopefully it will stay a short-term deal), and also wasting money on non-wrestling ventures even moreso now than he ever has when he's already lost money over the XFL flop from two years ago. Also, with Vince keeping Steph as the head of the creative team and letting HHH politic backstage, it makes it that much similar to the situation WCW was in in its dying days, because as the saying goes:"Those who live in the past are doomed to repeat it". The "wrestling is cyclical" theory can be thrown out the window because everyone saw what happened to ECW and WCW, they no longer exist, and WWE may go with them if Vince doesn't start getting deserving talent elevated to main-event status while phasing out some of the stale main-eventers(HHH, Undertaker), a better creative team that knows wrestling, and gradually having all of it build up over time and then the ratings will most likely have a steady rise at the top. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted January 5, 2003 Seinfield was a good show because it was a group effort by great character actors doing what they do best, the second Jerry discovered people were watching the show for Newman or George or Puddy he decided to call it quits, because you cannot overshadow the MAN. Raw has a great cast being stuck in the tag division, while some "big names" come in for guest spots to challenge the champ then dissappear again to obscurity. One Man does not make a great show! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted January 6, 2003 Well being a wrestling fan Raven, that is a shitty out look the WWE. Yes, everything is down. And yes, the wrestling cycle is in effect right now. They have no competion, but that agruement isn't really working. What does that have to do with the ratings, attendence, buyrates etc being down? It has nothing to do with it. Vince is at a low point creativly, and he will come back. I'll put any money on that, WWE will come out of the gutter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Raven_Effect01 Report post Posted January 6, 2003 They have no competion, but that agruement isn't really working. What does that have to do with the ratings, attendence, buyrates etc being down? It has nothing to do with it. Vince is at a low point creativly, and he will come back. I'll put any money on that, WWE will come out of the gutter. It's not really the fact that no competition is hurting the buyrates, attendance, and ratings: It's WWE's lack of motivation possibly due to there being no competition for them, causing them to put out a shitty product to make the buyrates, attendance, and ratings drop because of the awful writing and booking and Vince's stupid decisions. When WWE did poorly in the mid-90's and WCW was doing better than them, WWE eventually got out of the rut in 1998 and started doing better than WCW product-wise, despite the lack of wrestling and emphasis on edgy angles and feuds. If there was any such thing as a "wrestling cycle", WCW and ECW would have eventually done something to improve their product greatly, but they didn't, and one went out of business due to the promoter's money troubles, and the other was bought out by WWE before it actually ceased to exist as Bischoff and Fusient had trouble buying WCW. As far as WWE's future is concerned, well, as long as Vince lets Stephanie and HHH tell him what to do, keeps the terrible creative team he's got now, wastes a lot of money on non-wrestling ventures and leisure shit(does the McMahon family condo ring a bell?), keeps the same main-eventers on top without elevating wrestlers like Jericho, Benoit, RVD, Booker T, Guerrero, and others to the top, and continues to put sports-entertainment over wrestling, I don't think WWE will be able to gain back enough ratings, attendance, and buyrates, or ever get out of THIS gutter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Angle Armbar Report post Posted January 6, 2003 RAW can only get better. Once Nash comes back to feud with HHH, it will be bad, but comedically bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted January 6, 2003 Nash will never be back, if reports are true. Diesel though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RicFlairGlory Report post Posted January 6, 2003 Seinfield was a good show because it was a group effort by great character actors doing what they do best, the second Jerry discovered people were watching the show for Newman or George or Puddy he decided to call it quits, because you cannot overshadow the MAN. Jerry called it quits because he and the other 3 main characters couldnt get over a Million Dollars per episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted January 6, 2003 It's not really the fact that no competition is hurting the buyrates, attendance, and ratings: It's WWE's lack of motivation possibly due to there being no competition for them, causing them to put out a shitty product to make the buyrates, attendance, and ratings drop because of the awful writing and booking and Vince's stupid decisions. When WWE did poorly in the mid-90's and WCW was doing better than them, WWE eventually got out of the rut in 1998 and started doing better than WCW product-wise, despite the lack of wrestling and emphasis on edgy angles and feuds. Well there is no wrestling competion, but right now WWE has competion from everything else on Monday nights. That is there competion right now. They aren't getting beat by a wrestling program, but by Sponge Bob. And actually, Smackdown is doing pretty well right now. They have had pretty good quality programming this year, due to Paul Heyman being at the helm. The problem with Raw is Brian Gertwiz. He is a shitty ass writer. Hell, I could do better than that, and I am not even done with college yet. I'd say give Eric the book, and let's see what happens with that. As far as WWE's future is concerned, well, as long as Vince lets Stephanie and HHH tell him what to do, keeps the terrible creative team he's got now, wastes a lot of money on non-wrestling ventures and leisure shit(does the McMahon family condo ring a bell?), keeps the same main-eventers on top without elevating wrestlers like Jericho, Benoit, RVD, Booker T, Guerrero, and others to the top, and continues to put sports-entertainment over wrestling, I don't think WWE will be able to gain back enough ratings, attendance, and buyrates, or ever get out of THIS gutter. Yes, if Triple-Juice keeps pulling his political bullshit, then Raw will be in the shits. However, Smackdown is doing the complete opposite. They are going to give the ball to Brock again, this time as a face. And I believe that he will be able to help them. WWE will get out of the gutter. They need to make some changes, I am not arguing with you over that. If they don't make some changes, they will not get out of this bad period. Everyone knows that, and I am sure Vince will relieze that, sometime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
