Eddie Murray and Gary Carter are your 2003

[Guest Steve J. Rogers]

Should be more when the new-new-new-new Veterans Committiee announces their picks sometime in the next month or so

 

Vote totals to follow...

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Murray is deserving.

 

What did Gary Carter do between this year and last year to finally get in? Either your a HOF after the 3rd or maybe 4th time or you don't belong in the HOF.

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

Another Oriole in the HoF!

 

I have his autograph too.

 

Id try and go to Cooperstown, but Im gonna wait until 2007 ( I wonder if I should pre-book a hotel NOW..?)

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Another Oriole in the HoF!

 

I have his autograph too.

 

Id try and go to Cooperstown, but Im gonna wait until 2007 ( I wonder if I should pre-book a hotel NOW..?)

Make sure Cal doesn't like sleeping with fat assed blonde single mothers, and giving a Vibrator has a Christmas gift to a mistress.

[Guest imajackoff?]

Murray is the best player I had the oppurtunity to watch everday. The dude was CLUTCH.

 

Why is Jim Rice not in the HOF and Gary Carter is?? Oh yeah, Carter played in NY.

[Guest alkeiper]

Steve, I don't think the new vets committee will pick anyone. Just my prediction.

 

Verne, sometimes the voting does that. Almost every player with incresing vote totals eventually gets in. Carter is more than deserving.

 

If Carter was elected because he played in NY, why weren't Hernandez or Mattingly chosen? Carter's in on his own merits. Compare him to other catchers, and compare Rice to other left fielders. Carter is much better, IMO.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Carter is awesome, I grew up watching him. One of the best catchers ever. Eddie Murray is equally as great, but when he finally got to my team (Mets) he was in the twilight of his career. I know I am getting old when I saw all the hof inductees play live during many games.

 

--Rob

[Guest Downhome]

But, w-w-w-what about Ryan Sandberg?

[Guest Slapnuts00]

ED-IE ED-IE ED-IE! I still have some orange signs they were giving out in 96 when he was chasing 500 homeruns. A deserving Oriole in the Hall, at least there's something for us pathetic O's fans to be happy about...

[Guest Bosstones Fan]

But, w-w-w-what about Ryan Sandberg?

Sandberg got screwed.

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

Just in case anyone was wondering who was eligible in the next 4 years..

 

2004: Joe Carter, Dennis Eckersley, Jimmy Key, Dennis Martinez, Paul Molitor, Tom Pagnozzi, Terry Pendleton, Juan Samuel, Bob Tewksbury

 

Molitor is a shoe in..Eckersley probably as well.

 

2005: Wade Boggs, Tom Candiotti, Chili Davis, Jeff King, Mark Langston, Willie McGee, Jeff Montgomery, Terry Steinbach

 

Probably just Wade Boggs..

 

2006: Albert Belle, Will Clark, Gary Gaetti, Orel Hershiser, Darryl Strawberry

 

None of em..??

 

2007 Bobby Bonilla, Eric Davis, Tony Gwynn, Stan Javier, Wally Joyner, Mark McGwire, Paul O’Neill, Cal Ripken Jr., Bret Saberhagen

 

This is gonna be a killer year..Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken are obvious..I doubt Mark McGwire will get it on a first ballot considering that Gwynn and Ripken will get a lot of the attention...

 

Sandberg could make it in 2005 or 2006 easily..

[Guest Choken One]

2004: Eckersley and Molitor

2005: Boggs and MAYBE Rice/Sandberg

2006: Hershiser MIGHT get it.

2007: Toughest ever...Gwynn, Ripken, McGwire. Somehow they will manage to get them in...Wouldn't be shocked if McGwire makes a return and negate this.

[Guest alkeiper]

2004: Eckersley and probably Molitor

2005: Boggs

2006: No one, but it will be a good year for someone like Sandberg to make the Hall

2007: McGwire, Gwynn, and Ripkin. McGwire's in the 500 HR club, and Ripkin and Gwynn each have 3,000 hits

2008: Raines is deserving, but won't make it unfortunately.

[Guest CanadianChris]

You know you're getting old when you remember seeing Hall of Fame-eligible players when they first broke into the bigs.

 

2004: Definitely Molitor...if Eck gets in and Goose Gossage doesn't, I'll be outraged. (I don't think you guys realize how biased the voters are against relievers...and Gossage was twice a good as Eckersley in his prime.) I don't think any of the rest ever have a shot, except possibly Joe Carter.

 

2005: Boggs gets in, no one else has a chance.

 

2006: No one from the incoming class. Hershiser was good, but not HoF material. This is probably the year for Sandberg and Gossage.

 

2007: Ripken, Gwynn and McGwire are all shoo-ins. C'mon...McGwire's sixth on the all-time home run list! That's automatic. O'Neill won't get in on this ballot, but he should make it eventually.

[Guest Steve J. Rogers]

Murray is deserving.

 

What did Gary Carter do between this year and last year to finally get in? Either your a HOF after the 3rd or maybe 4th time or you don't belong in the HOF.

This happens to be one of the biggest facllices with the voting system BTW.

 

You have the right to vote between none and 10 players yet many writers only vote for one, two, three or whatever, not the full 10.

 

Some don't believe you should vote someone in on the first ballot (hence why there STILL hasn't been an uniamious selection and why there have been only 30 some first balloters)

 

Some people are naturally biased against certain people (Jim Rice for example) due to their surely ness or whatever and if you don't have certain milestones that becomes a factor in vote totals (Murray has 500 wins and 3,000 hits, Steve Carlton won 300 and struckout over 4,000 and both never spoke with the press, but you can't ignore their milestones, hence they got in first crack)

 

Its true that if you have to "think" about it maybe they aren't as deserving but when you have voters not voting for the full 10 players they can vote for, not to mention there is a mentality of "Well I know he won't get in this year, so I'll vote him in next year" you get all these players hanging on for 15 or less years waiting for the call (i.e. Jim Kaat)

[Guest cabbageboy]

Sandberg should have gotten in. My god the guy was the best power hitting 2nd baseman of all time and in his era the best defensively. It is lame that he didn't get in.

 

I grew up watching the Cubs on WGN. He and Grace are my favorite players.

[Guest DrTom]

2004: I'd vote for Eckersley and Molitor in a hearbeat. What people tend to forget about The Eck is that he was an excellent starting pitcher before becoming an excellent short reliever.

 

2005: Boggs, though I think I'd like his candidacy more if he hadn't hung on so long. Hell, considering that he was basically a singles hitter with poor foot speed, he never should have left Boston and the Green Monster.

 

2006: What a lame class that is. I don't think anyone there is Hall worthy, so that's probably the year that a guy like Sandberg (whom I would have put in this year), and maybe Gossage, gets in.

 

2007: Ripken and Gwynn are shoo-ins. McGwire isn't the lock everyone thinks he is, but I'd still vote for him.

 

I think Sandberg would have been a good call because he was the best second baseman of his era. He had a higher lifetime average than HOF 2nd sacker Joe Morgan, and is second in Gold Gloves to future HOFer Roberto Alomar. Coming back from retirement probably cost him a bunch of votes, though.

[Guest Kingpk]

Jim Rice gets screwed again because he wasn't a "media friendly" guy.

 

I still don't know why Goose Gossage isn't in.

[Guest CanadianChris]

What people tend to forget about The Eck is that he was an excellent starting pitcher before becoming an excellent short reliever.

Eckersley may be a lot of things, but an excellent starting pitcher is NOT one of them.

 

Eckersley had only two very good seasons as a starter of the twelve he played in that role, in 1978 (20-8, 2.99 ERA, 268 1/3 IP) and 1979 (17-10, 2.99 ERA, 246 1/3 IP). His record in seasons where he was primarily a starter (1975-1986) was 151-121, with an ERA of 3.67, at a time where offense had not exploded yet. He had EIGHT seasons where he recorded double-digit losses, and SEVEN seasons where his ERA was over 3.50.

 

If anything, his record as a starting pitcher severely damages his case as a Hall of Famer. And that's not even considering the mediocre end to his career from the mid-to-late nineties. He was seemingly never the same pitcher after Roberto Alomar's ninth-inning home run off him in Game 4 of the 1992 ALCS.

[Guest alkeiper]

On Eckersley and Gossage.....

 

Eckersley won 197 games AND collected 390 saves. He also pitched a no hitter as a starter. He pitched successfully well into his forties. As a pitcher, there's no one else in history like him, and you really can't compare him to Gossage. I think he's hall worthy.

 

Gossage should go in as well. His two most comparable players are Hoyt Wilhelm and Rollie Fingers, the only two relievers in the Hall. He's better than either of them.

 

The problem with relievers is that there's no established standard for a hall of fame reliever, since thre's only two in the hall, and they're a relatively new breed of player.

 

As for others mentioned.....

 

Paul O'Neill: No way. He only finished in the top 10 of MVP voting once.

 

Ryne Sandberg: Not the greatest hitting 2B ever (Hornsby has that honor) but he should go in.

 

Also, I think Alan Trammell, Andre Dawson, and Bert Blyleven are hall worthy.

[Guest DrTom]

If anything, his record as a starting pitcher severely damages his case as a Hall of Famer.

The Eck's Numbers

 

He had close to 200 wins and 400 saves. While he may not have been an *excellent* starter, he was certainly a good one, then he became the best closer in baseball for a lot of years. IMO, he's better than either of the relivers in the Hall right now, and he owns guys like Gossage and Lee Smith. I'd put Eck in the Hall without a second thought.

[Guest CanadianChris]

If anything, his record as a starting pitcher severely damages his case as a Hall of Famer.

The Eck's Numbers

 

IMO, he's better than either of the relivers in the Hall right now, and he owns guys like Gossage and Lee Smith. I'd put Eck in the Hall without a second thought.

You can't possibly compare Eckersley to Gossage based on save totals. First, saves were not really accumulated by only one guy on a team until Dan Quisenberry came along in the early eighties. Second, Gossage was the guy who was brought in to shut down the opposing team's best hitters, no matter when they came up. He could be (and was) used in the seventh or eighth inning if that's what it took to stop a rally and put the other team away...he actually "saved" a LOT more games than the stats can give credit for.

 

Eckersley recorded 80% of his team's saves in years he led his team in saves (1988-1997) -- and he had a staggering 85% from 1991-1997, when the idea of one closer per team came into vogue. Gossage had only 63% of his team's saves in those years (1975, 1977-1986, 1988). If Gossage had recorded 80% of his team's saves, he would have had 387, for fourth all-time...85% would have given him 410, or 20 more than Eckersley.

 

Other items:

 

- Eckersley's "prime" as a reliever lasted five years, from 1988 to 1992. Gossage's "prime" lasted TEN years, from 1975 to 1985 (he was a starter in 1976).

 

- Eckersley led his league in saves twice; Gossage led his league in saves three times. (Eckersley - 1988 and 1992, Gossage - 1975, 1978 and 1980)

 

- Eckersley's ERA as a reliever was 3.47. Gossage's was 2.88.

 

- Eckersley recorded 151 saves after his prime, thanks to being the closer even when he wasn't as good. Gossage had only 32. This alone speaks to the devaluing of the save statistic in the 1990s.

 

- Gossage recorded 25 saves and 90 innings 6 times in his career. Eckersley never even pitched 90 innings once as a reliever.

[Guest DrTom]

You can't possibly compare Eckersley to Gossage based on save totals.

It's hard to compare any stat across eras like that. Save totals really took off once bullpens became so micro-managed in the mid-1980s. While many deserving relievers have racked up impressive save numbers, Bobby Thigpen still has his name in the record books. And what did he do besides have that one season with an artificially high save total?

 

You don't need to regurgitate statistics to try and convince me Gossage was good. I know he was, and I think he belongs in Cooperstown. He has to deal with the bias against relievers, though, which is why I listed him as a "maybe." But Eckersley belongs there too, since, in his prime as a reliever, he was better than Gossage in his prime, IMO. Heck, at least Gossage could throw the ball past somebody. The fact remains that Eckersley was a good starter for years, then became a dashed good short reliever. Almost 200 wins and almost 400 saves? Yeah, he gets a ticket to Cooperstown.

[Guest CanadianChris]

But Eckersley belongs there too, since, in his prime as a reliever, he was better than Gossage in his prime, IMO.

We agree to disagree on this point, then. I saw them both, and I still think Gossage is better.

 

The fact remains that Eckersley was a good starter for years, then became a dashed good short reliever.  Almost 200 wins and almost 400 saves?  Yeah, he gets a ticket to Cooperstown.

 

I think he does, as well. My point, though, was this: why is Eckersley a no-brainer first ballot Hall-of-Famer, while Gossage struggles to get half the vote? I think Gossage was a at least as good a reliever as Eckersley, for longer than Eckersley. And he doesn't have 12 seasons of being an adequate-to-good starter (and honestly, how many Hall of Famers should you be able to describe as "adequate-to-good?") weighing him down.

 

And yes, Eckersley has almost 200 wins, but he has nearly 200 losses as well. That 200 wins/400 saves stat never impressed me much, considering the way in which he rolled them up.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

2004-Paul Molitor, Dennis Eckersley

2005-Wade Boggs

2006-Bruce Sutter, Ryne Sandberg, Andre Dawson

2007-Cal Ripken, Tony Gwyn, Mark McGwire

 

I'm suprised Ryne Sandberg and Andre Dawson aren't getting more votes.

[Guest Sassquatch]

2004 - Paul Molitor, Dennis Eckersley

2005 - Wade Boggs

2006 - Ryne Sandberg, Andre Dawson

2007 - Cal Ripken, Tony Gwyn, Mark McGwire