Sex Ed.......or......

January 10, 2003

So I am watching Donahue and this is the hot button issue tonight....ok this thread is not about Donahue so don't reply with your opinions about him please, plainly stated, are you for Sex Education or Abstinence ONLY plans?

Personally I think abstinence only plans fail on many levels for one, they teach an inaccurate potrayal of male and female biology and how it works. Secondly, it does little to nothing to help teens that have ALREADY started having sex. Third, teenage males have never and will never change. Yes teen sex may go up or down a few percentage points, but teenage MALES will NEVER abstain. So this whole "abstinence only" plan would be mainly for females.........Thoughts?

January 10, 2003

Best to teach safe sex. I don't mind them pointing out the benefits of abstience till they are adults because that is a good message IMO (didn't follow it though).

I think it covers both grounds.

January 10, 2003

I think that they should teach safe sex first. Teenagers are going to have sex, that's a fact. If they new about different ways to protect themselves, and which are best to prevent pregancy or STDs, it could help lower teen pregnancy and STD rates. I believe abstinence should be taught as part of that, but not as the only way because, let's face it, just saying "don't have sex until you get married" isn't going to stop everyone. I also think that every teenager should have to go to a hospital and witness a live birth. I think that could actually be an effective deterant (more so to the females than males though).

I once had a guest speaker in my health class who tried to tell the students that they shouldn't KISS until they got married. He started talking about how disease could be passed through saliva, and blah blah blah. In the end, we ignored everything he said, whether it was good information or not, because he portrayed us all as deviants and whores for kissing. I think if you make a teenager feel that way if they have had sex while they are teaching abstinence would have the same effect. It's going to hurt their self esteem and they will most likely ignore any helpful information that may have been presented. Sex is not a shameful thing, and it shouldn't be taught as something to be shameful about.

January 10, 2003

..."But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you,... For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them."

Ephesians 4:3-7

Teach the Word of God. Stop being evil. Stop telling kids it's ok to sin (fornicate) then when you get pregnant get an abortion (murder). ---^

..."for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience."

Keep teaching evil is ok, and more wrath is coming our way.

Tell kids, don't! If you do, you will live with the consequences.

January 10, 2003

No one is saying that we should run around with banners that say "Kids, Go Have Sex" It's not even implied. The truth is that many teenagers will have sex. Is that a good thing, most likely not. Is it a "sin," I don't see it as one. Just because I don't see it as a sin, doesn't mean I advocate kids running around and sleeping with eachother, but just because we don't like it doesn't mean it won't happen. If we teach them how to have safe sex, how to make the right decisions about sex, and the potential consequences of having sex, and they still decide to do it, that's their choice. Free will is a bitch when it comes to controlling the masses. If they choose to have sex, then they will have to deal with the consequences of that decision.

Besides, if it really is that big of a sin, Heaven must be an empty place.

I won't even touch on the abortion reference in your statement since that has been argued for ages, andno one is likely to change their positions. Some will think it is wrong, others will thing it is alright. Again, that's just how it is.

January 10, 2003

Just general sex education is totally necessary for youth in general. Have you even listened to the love line radio show recently? You get some of the most retarded callers ever, girls who ask why they got pregnant when they only "let their boyfriend squirt once" Shit like that is why people get sick and have early kids. Pregnancy and disease are preventable, and no American kids should be unaware of protection. The sheer fact that someone would choose to keep kids' heads buried in the sand about this issue is sick. There is a huge difference between information and rules. Abstainance (sp) only is barely infomation, it is just rules, and kids won't listen to it. On the other hand, information about protection is actually useful.

Anyways, people were having sex before the religious ceremonys of marriage were even conceinved, does that mean our ancestors were all going to hell? I don't think sooo...

January 10, 2003

Teach both. I don't give a sh*t.

PS: Enjoy Donahue while he lasts...

January 10, 2003

"Abstinence Only" advocates ALWAYS ignore when questioned about how to handle the teenagers that have decided to have sex. I have no problem with Abstinence priority type classes, but to honestly believe that EVERY SINGLE or better yet, the MAJORITY of teens are going to wait to have sex is just a mochary of human biology and behaivor. I read a study that said of the teens that stay virgins through highschool, 85% lose it their freshman year in college. SO yes, the program may make them wait for a year or so.....but eventually we know what happens.

I also can't stand when these advocates make up BLATANT LIES about sex ed courses. In highschool our teach NEVER ONCE said, "sex is ok Jenny, just use a condom, you'll be fine" That is the type of dribble these people are accusing the teachers of saying. If anything my teacher tried to convince us in EVERY WAY possible not to have sex, yet still she could see it in a lot our eyes that many kids were just not listening/caring/already having sex.....so that is where the "abstinence only" class FAILS.

January 10, 2003

..."But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you,... For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them."
Ephesians 4:3-7

Teach the Word of God. Stop being evil. Stop telling kids it's ok to sin (fornicate) then when you get pregnant get an abortion (murder). ---^

..."for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience."

Keep teaching evil is ok, and more wrath is coming our way.

Tell kids, don't! If you do, you will live with the consequences.

Well yes Dopey, reading those passages to ADULTS that are educated and have life experience, may have an affect, however reading it to a class of teenage boys, would probobaly have the OPPOSITE affect as they would automatically want to disagree with the "authority" and they would probobaly just laugh......

January 10, 2003

Why can't they just do sex ed and explain the pros of abstinence?

January 10, 2003

..."But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you,... For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them."
Ephesians 4:3-7

Teach the Word of God. Stop being evil. Stop telling kids it's ok to sin (fornicate) then when you get pregnant get an abortion (murder). ---^

..."for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience."

Keep teaching evil is ok, and more wrath is coming our way.

Tell kids, don't! If you do, you will live with the consequences.

Cool, read it one more time!!

January 11, 2003

Why can't they just do sex ed and explain the pros of abstinence?

That is what they do currently, however Abstinence Only advocates say that any information on sex other than, "wait until marriage" is not good enough.

January 11, 2003

..."But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you,... For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them."
Ephesians 4:3-7

Teach the Word of God. Stop being evil. Stop telling kids it's ok to sin (fornicate) then when you get pregnant get an abortion (murder). ---^

..."for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience."

Keep teaching evil is ok, and more wrath is coming our way.

Tell kids, don't! If you do, you will live with the consequences.

Cool, read it one more time!!

Ok I read it again....even a third time just in case you tell me to read it one more time...however that doesn't answer ANY of the questions posed in the thread. :rolleyes:

January 11, 2003

Well yes Dopey, reading those passages to ADULTS that are educated and have life experience, may have an affect, however reading it to a class of teenage boys, would probobaly have the OPPOSITE affect as they would automatically want to disagree with the "authority" and they would probobaly just laugh......

..."And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up." Deuteronomy 6:6-7

..."TRIAN UP A CHILD IN THE WAY HE SHOULD GO,

. AND WHEN HE IS OLD HE WILL NOT DEPART FROM IT." Proverbs 22:6

NorCal-Mike, why are we waiting until they are teenagers to tell them how to act.

Training and discipline for the real world, the adult world, begins the day the child is born.

A well disciplined, well trained child WILL listen to you. Maybe not 100% of the time, granted, but they will hear your warnings and advice.

PARENTS READ PROVERBS 22:6!!! And the rest of the Bible as well. It is the best manual for life.

January 11, 2003

Hey, forget the Bible, I'll be satisfied if parents just talk about it. Give them the truth about pros and cons. Don't let the schools run the show.

January 11, 2003

The Bible tries to scare you with an angry Supreme Being. That isn't the ultimate guide.

The ultimate guide is the book with pictures of STD's in it. Talking about the problems with it, not the morality. Teach safe sex, give your moral opinion. That's all you can do really.

January 11, 2003

Why can't they just do sex ed and explain the pros of abstinence?

That is what they do currently, however Abstinence Only advocates say that any information on sex other than, "wait until marriage" is not good enough.

I've gotten sex ed twice in my life.

The first was a set of videos at the Catholic school I used to go to. They were all about the morality of sex, not the results of which. We watched a cartoon though that was about a girl who had sex and got pregnant, but never really taught about a practice of safe sex. Rather, it said "SEX always = BABIES". Boo-urns.

The second was at the boy's lunch table. That was really a fun experience.

January 11, 2003

When I went through all the sex-ed stuff in high school/junior high, my teachers did a great job of scaring the hell out of us by outlining all the possible horror stories that could come about if we didn't practice abstinence . Even with all the scare tactics and what not; if one was practicing abstinence in high school, he or she was in the minority. So even with the great sex-ed courses, teens were still ignoring the advice.

Idea: How about making an "American skills" class mandatory in addition to the sex-ed? This skills class will teach early h.s students what skills and knowledge is neccessary to succeed in an ultra competitive country like the U.S where poor choices result in actual conseuqences. That way when they're told "you'll ruin your life if you have baby" they'll be able to know exactly why being a young parent will ruin their life.

January 11, 2003

Well yes Dopey, reading those passages to ADULTS that are educated and have life experience, may have an affect, however reading it to a class of teenage boys, would probobaly have the OPPOSITE affect as they would automatically want to disagree with the "authority" and they would probobaly just laugh......

..."And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up." Deuteronomy 6:6-7

..."TRIAN UP A CHILD IN THE WAY HE SHOULD GO,

. AND WHEN HE IS OLD HE WILL NOT DEPART FROM IT." Proverbs 22:6

NorCal-Mike, why are we waiting until they are teenagers to tell them how to act.

Training and discipline for the real world, the adult world, begins the day the child is born.

A well disciplined, well trained child WILL listen to you. Maybe not 100% of the time, granted, but they will hear your warnings and advice.

PARENTS READ PROVERBS 22:6!!! And the rest of the Bible as well. It is the best manual for life.

Well no parent has to wait so-to-say, however you can't tell me there isn't a difference between a 9 year old being told not to have sex, and a horny teenage 16 year old male. And this thread really isn't about the parents responsibility anyway. I suppose you are speaking on parents and/or the church teach the children morals and ethics etc....but with that in mind, are you going to tell me what children who went to church or not having sex as teenagers.......doubt it.

January 11, 2003

Why can't they just do sex ed and explain the pros of abstinence?

That is what they do currently, however Abstinence Only advocates say that any information on sex other than, "wait until marriage" is not good enough.

First off, this isn't a question

January 11, 2003

No one is saying that we should run around with banners that say "Kids, Go Have Sex" It's not even implied. The truth is that many teenagers will have sex. Is that a good thing, most likely not. Is it a "sin," I don't see it as one. Just because I don't see it as a sin, doesn't mean I advocate kids running around and sleeping with eachother, but just because we don't like it doesn't mean it won't happen. If we teach them how to have safe sex, how to make the right decisions about sex, and the potential consequences of having sex, and they still decide to do it, that's their choice. Free will is a bitch when it comes to controlling the masses. If they choose to have sex, then they will have to deal with the consequences of that decision.

Besides, if it really is that big of a sin, Heaven must be an empty place.

I won't even touch on the abortion reference in your statement since that has been argued for ages, andno one is likely to change their positions. Some will think it is wrong, others will thing it is alright. Again, that's just how it is.

You again.....anyhow, to answer your rant....YES. What you do effects others around you. Common sense comes into play here. If I were to teach my kids to have morals, then they would have morals, right? If I let them know that "sin" is a very bad thing in Gods eyes, Then would they know that? Haven't you yet seen the commerials lately, their perfect. "Parents, the antidrug". It's all over Television. It's proven, if you spend Time with you kids then they will learn from you, right? Same as a teacher. If you pay attention in class, your most likely to pass. Dopey threw out something most people don't do because they themselves weren't taught right. In the END, (Yes you hear this alot, but you will one day have one) God's words will slap you in the face. If you have kids with your broken morals, then they will to most likely have broken morals. I.E. "Is it a sin, I dont see it as one". Wake up!! P.S. you cant control the masses, but you can control yourself and your kids!!!!!

January 11, 2003

Well no parent has to wait so-to-say, however you can't tell me there isn't a difference between a 9 year old being told not to have sex, and a horny teenage 16 year old male. And this thread really isn't about the parents responsibility anyway. I suppose you are speaking on parents and/or the church teach the children morals and ethics etc....but with that in mind, are you going to tell me what children who went to church or not having sex as teenagers.......doubt it.

First off, If you have MORALS, then they will pass down to your children, duh. I was 16 once and I didn't consider myself "horny...me...sex...now". (Don't know if you did). Paying Attention helps you in life and if you go to church as a child that is a great thing, you learn how God has planned you to be. I'm not saying that if your with the church then your perfect, I'm saying if you have had morals passed down to you, you would learn. Simple. Commen Sense. Get Some.

January 11, 2003

Well no parent has to wait so-to-say, however you can't tell me there isn't a difference between a 9 year old being told not to have sex, and a horny teenage 16 year old male. And this thread really isn't about the parents responsibility anyway. I suppose you are speaking on parents and/or the church teach the children morals and ethics etc....but with that in mind, are you going to tell me what children who went to church or not having sex as teenagers.......doubt it.

First off, If you have MORALS, then they will pass down to your children, duh. I was 16 once and I didn't consider myself "horny...me...sex...now". (Don't know if you did). Paying Attention helps you in life and if you go to church as a child that is a great thing, you learn how God has planned you to be. I'm not saying that if your with the church then your perfect, I'm saying if you have had morals passed down to you, you would learn. Simple. Commen Sense. Get Some.

Ermmm, don't talk to me about common sense bubbleboy, because common sense shows that you are STILL ignoring any and every question I have posed. I am not speaking of teenagers that have chosen to take "the right" path and stay a virgin until marriage, those people are NOT part of the equation. I am talking about the teens who refuse to accept the idea of abstinence, GET IT? What do you offer in education for them? Or do you still want to live in a pretend/make believe world where you can just tell your kids to be moral and it will have a 100% efficiency rate?? Wake up, and join the discussion by answering the questions, please.

January 11, 2003

No one is saying that we should run around with banners that say "Kids, Go Have Sex" It's not even implied. The truth is that many teenagers will have sex. Is that a good thing, most likely not. Is it a "sin," I don't see it as one. Just because I don't see it as a sin, doesn't mean I advocate kids running around and sleeping with eachother, but just because we don't like it doesn't mean it won't happen. If we teach them how to have safe sex, how to make the right decisions about sex, and the potential consequences of having sex, and they still decide to do it, that's their choice. Free will is a bitch when it comes to controlling the masses. If they choose to have sex, then they will have to deal with the consequences of that decision.

Besides, if it really is that big of a sin, Heaven must be an empty place.

I won't even touch on the abortion reference in your statement since that has been argued for ages, andno one is likely to change their positions. Some will think it is wrong, others will thing it is alright. Again, that's just how it is.

You again.....anyhow, to answer your rant....YES. What you do effects others around you. Common sense comes into play here. If I were to teach my kids to have morals, then they would have morals, right? If I let them know that "sin" is a very bad thing in Gods eyes, Then would they know that? Haven't you yet seen the commerials lately, their perfect. "Parents, the antidrug". It's all over Television. It's proven, if you spend Time with you kids then they will learn from you, right? Same as a teacher. If you pay attention in class, your most likely to pass. Dopey threw out something most people don't do because they themselves weren't taught right. In the END, (Yes you hear this alot, but you will one day have one) God's words will slap you in the face. If you have kids with your broken morals, then they will to most likely have broken morals. I.E. "Is it a sin, I dont see it as one". Wake up!! P.S. you cant control the masses, but you can control yourself and your kids!!!!!

So, suppose your sill argument carries over for at least some christian folk.....what about everyone else that doesn't care about what the bible says? See that is another problem with the Abstience advocates 90% as a guise to rooz you into thinking they care when their main goal is just to further press christian values on people that want no part of them. When they say "sex was meant for the sanctity of marriage" I don't suppose they just maid it up, so where does that suggestion come from??

January 11, 2003

I am not speaking of teenagers that have chosen to take "the right" path and stay a virgin until marriage, those people are NOT part of the equation. I am talking about the teens who refuse to accept the idea of abstinence, GET IT? What do you offer in education for them?

I think this is the key point of his argument, SW?ILBB, because with a liberal sex ed class, kids ARE taught that abstainance is the only 100% surefire preventative. It's on top of eeeeeeeeevery list. Yet, for the moral argument, the teachers are less likely to teach kids how to properly use protection, and more likely to scare them off it, or teach them that it doesn't work.

You can't just help the people who don't need help. A lot (A LOT) of kids have sex in highschool. They are the ones who need help. Kids who are not having sex do not need reaffirmation from sex-ed class, the kids who are going through the steps of reproduction every other day need to learn how to prevent pregnancy, or else they WILL have to go to the local planned parenthood clinic, and they WILL have to make a horrible decision, because they CAN'T raise a child. I hate the abstinance only method because it abandons those who do not chose abstainance. Whereas the general sex ed class doesn't abandon anyone!

January 11, 2003

I think sex education needs to be taught. Teens need to be prepared for the things they're going to face, especially the bad consequences. Abstinence should be taught also, with the added point that it's the only completely foolproof way to avoid diseases and pregnancy.

I don't mind school teaching about things like condoms and the pill: it's kind of sad that such things are necessary to teach them, but it's better that they know all about them and know how to be safe. I do have a problem with schools giving out condoms, though. That goes beyond education into implicit encouragement, IMO.

January 11, 2003

I don't think that is implicit encouragement at all. It's not quite so simple as "get condom, use condom"

Basically any 10th grader who is going to have sex ... is going to have sex. It's like, they either will, or they won't. I know that sounds repetitive, but basically they will either have informed sex or uninformed sex, because they already made their choice.

Now, this choice has nothing to do with a teacher providing condoms in class, it has to do with the person they are going to have sex with, their friends perhaps, and maybe a few other factors, but regardless they wouldn't be "encouraged" by a condom. What they MIGHT do is use this condom if they had it, because they might be hesitant to go into a convience store and buy their own. So I think the lesser of two evils is having protected sex instead of getting pregnant in the 10th grade, no?

I'm just trying to say that while many kids have had sex even though they didn't have protection, I don't think ANY kids have sex because they DO have protection. It sadly doesn't figure into the equation.

January 11, 2003

I'm just trying to say that while many kids have had sex even though they didn't have protection, I don't think ANY kids have sex because they DO have protection. It sadly doesn't figure into the equation.

Great point....Adding to your sentiments, basically no kind I have ever known felt he HAD to have sex just because he had a condom on him. The decision to have sex or not has NOTHING to do with that, it has to do with what the individual wants.

Another thing that baffles me is how EVERY generation of adults seems to pretend that high levels of teenage sex is some new phenomenon(sp?) You mean to tell me that teens today after more sexually active than in the 60's ?? Give me a f'n break....

January 11, 2003

I was lucky enough to go to a school where they taught the "abstinence is best but if you're going to do it, here's how to be safe" method.

This reminds me of the movie High School High. They had a sex awareness week. A girl would walk up to the table and the nurse would take a condom and staple it to a pamphlet and say, "Here you go, ya little slut."

January 11, 2003

Did anyone else get shown the "scared celibate" STD video in highschool? Basically it was a video slideshow of close up shots of genitals infected with STDs and some shots of after procedures were done. The before/after shots of a pussy with genital wars burned off will haunt me until I die. Didn't stop me from having sex, but it did make me aware of what could go wrong if I wasn't careful.

I think a lot of problems exist because we're so sexually repressed as a culture. The debates about sex ed stem from that. If sex was more open, perhaps it would be easier to keep kids from getting pregnant or having other types of problems.

Sex Ed.......or......

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