Goldberg And Vince Meet For The First Time

[Guest EternallyLazy]

Goldberg is an arrogant ass... I agree. In every interview I've read, the guy talks like he is God's gift to wrestling, when in reality, he was never that great. Goldberg was lucky. He was in the right place at the right time. He didn't get pushed because of his talents. He got pushed because WCW had a brilliant but simple idea that made Goldberg a star. He wasn't ready to be a star as far as ring experience, but he got his push and made his millions... all this without any respect for the business. If Goldberg truly loved wrestling, he wouldn't be playing the stuck up hardass game with Vince McMahon... he would agree to work a full time schedule. And because of this, if he gets signed, expect to hear about some extreme backstage tension, as I'm sure there already is

 

BUT...

 

What Goldberg did to Bret was unfortunate. But this is professional wrestling, and although the idea is to protect your opponents from injury... mistakes and accidents happen, even to the best of the best. All of you know this. Bret complained for a long time about how angry he was and about how he never hurt an opponent in the ring... and while that may be true, Goldberg was never in Bret Hart's league ring wise. At the time Bret was injured, he had been in the business almost 20 years and was the expert in the ring that night. Goldberg had been in the business for what, two years? I can excuse his mistake because of his lack of experience... so if you're going to blame anyone for Bret's career ending, I say blame the brass at WCW for giving the monster main event push to a guy that wasn't ready

 

And another thing... Bret had sustained numerous concussions throughout his career. Am I wrong to assume the number is near the 20 mark? Assuming that figure is correct... 20 concussions is pretty much a sign anyway that your career is near finished. Goldberg may have been the one to end Bret's career, but if he hadn't, believe me... it would've happened sooner or later with some other opponent, or possibly Bret himself.

[Guest the pinjockey]

"Did you see the buyrate for WrestleMania X8? I don't know the exact figure but it was pretty fuckin big, thanks 99% to Hogan vs Rock."

 

I thought they were actually disappointed with the buyrate IIRC. I think it ended up at a 1.6. While that is big the RR did a 1.1 and usually WM has a bigger buyrate than anything else so they may have thought Rock/Hogan would have added more.

[Guest Downhome]

There is one thing that I don't understand: how can WWE expect Goldberg to pop ratings when Hogan, arguably the most popular wrestler *ever*, and the Rock, one of the most popular stars in the past 5 years, couldn't? Call me bitter, but I don't think that Goldberg would do any good after a couple of shows.

Did you see the buyrate for WrestleMania X8? I don't know the exact figure but it was pretty fuckin big, thanks 99% to Hogan vs Rock. For the three weeks that it was on TV, the feud also did good numbers for WWE. It was dead after Mania because the fans turned Hogan babyface. The WWE couldn't do anything in their power to turn Hogan back to heel after that, especially thanks to Raw the next night in Montreal. The whole Hogan/Rock thing was just screwed due to unforseen circumstances......

 

Now if they had turned The Rock heel on Hogan the next night in Montreal.....................

Had they turned Rocky heel, joined the nWo, and destroyed Hogan setting up a semi-long term Hogan/Rocky feud, I guarentee that Hogan would have been a succes. I've said it before, and I'll never stop, for Hogan to be a succes he MUST be in an emotional storyline, something the fans can truly get behind and want to see him overcome (or get destroyed like in WCW). The heel Rocky, would more than be able to do just that.

[Guest Downhome]

*edit*

[Guest bob_barron]

Goldberg ended a guy's career. Until Brock does that- you have no case

D-lo "ended a guy's career." Don't try to sugar coat it and act like it's a different situation either, because it's not. At least Bret Hart can still fucking walk.

Ummm what's your point??

 

I don't like D-Lo Brown either and don't think he should be pushed either

[Guest Coffey]

Goldberg ended a guy's career. Until Brock does that- you have no case

D-lo "ended a guy's career." Don't try to sugar coat it and act like it's a different situation either, because it's not. At least Bret Hart can still fucking walk.

Ummm what's your point??

 

I don't like D-Lo Brown either and don't think he should be pushed either

My point is that everyone makes Goldberg out to be a bad guy because of the Bret Hart incident. No one ever says shit about D-Lo except "It was an accident, give him another chance." Well, I say the same thing about Goldberg. It was an accident, and he deserves a second chance.

[Guest Downhome]

"Did you see the buyrate for WrestleMania X8? I don't know the exact figure but it was pretty fuckin big, thanks 99% to Hogan vs Rock."

 

I thought they were actually disappointed with the buyrate IIRC. I think it ended up at a 1.6. While that is big the RR did a 1.1 and usually WM has a bigger buyrate than anything else so they may have thought Rock/Hogan would have added more.

You must also look at the product surrounding this years WM. It obviously wasn't going to get as big a buy rate simply because the product fan base had changed so much than in recent years. I would be PLEASED with such a number, considering the product the six months before, etc... and considering everything else.

[Guest bob_barron]

There is one thing that I don't understand: how can WWE expect Goldberg to pop ratings when Hogan, arguably the most popular wrestler *ever*, and the Rock, one of the most popular stars in the past 5 years, couldn't? Call me bitter, but I don't think that Goldberg would do any good after a couple of shows.

Did you see the buyrate for WrestleMania X8? I don't know the exact figure but it was pretty fuckin big, thanks 99% to Hogan vs Rock. For the three weeks that it was on TV, the feud also did good numbers for WWE. It was dead after Mania because the fans turned Hogan babyface. The WWE couldn't do anything in their power to turn Hogan back to heel after that, especially thanks to Raw the next night in Montreal. The whole Hogan/Rock thing was just screwed due to unforseen circumstances......

 

Now if they had turned The Rock heel on Hogan the next night in Montreal.....................

Had they turned Rocky heel, joined the nWo, and destroyed Hogan setting up a semi-long term Hogan/Rocky feud, I guarentee that Hogan would have been a succes. I've said it before, and I'll never stop, for Hogan to be a succes he MUST be in an emotional storyline, something the fans can truly get behind and want to see him overcome (or get destroyed like in WCW). The heel Rocky, would more than be able to do just that.

They couldn't turn Rock heel because of he wouldn't have been around.

 

The perfect way to handle Hulk was to just put him in the midcard and have him beat lower carders with the typical Hogan match.

 

No harm, no foul and everyone goes home happy

[Guest bob_barron]

Goldberg ended a guy's career. Until Brock does that- you have no case

D-lo "ended a guy's career." Don't try to sugar coat it and act like it's a different situation either, because it's not. At least Bret Hart can still fucking walk.

Ummm what's your point??

 

I don't like D-Lo Brown either and don't think he should be pushed either

My point is that everyone makes Goldberg out to be a bad guy because of the Bret Hart incident. No one ever says shit about D-Lo except "It was an accident, give him another chance." Well, I say the same thing about Goldberg. It was an accident, and he deserves a second chance.

D-Lo also isn't known for working stiff and took responsibility for the incident.

 

But D-Lo should've stopped downing the powerbomb after he dropped Val on his head at SummSlam

[Guest Downhome]

They couldn't turn Rock heel because of he wouldn't have been around.

I understand that, but it's what SHOULD have happened had the stars been perfectly aligned. After Rocky left, after Austin left, that left WWE in quite bind as to who to put Hogan in there with after that huge match and whatnot with Rocky at WM. They obviously had no plans laid out, and it hurt things. No one cared about his situation with HHH or Taker, because he had no reason to fight them in the first place.

[Guest Downhome]

The D'Lo thing was a horrible accident, and it wasn't even his fault. I do believe it came out that D'Lo simply slipped on a cup of some sort of something that a fan threw into the ring.

[Guest Banky]

They should bring back Goldberg and job him out to Austin. It would show their biggest star was far superior to WCWs. I, for the life of me, do NOT understand why they would build a Goldberg vs. Rocky match. It would make far more sense to make it Austin vs. Goldberg. Its the match everyone has been wanting to see. The WWE thinks the fans are salivating to see the Rock again, and they couldn't be any further from the truth. The fans WANT Austin, they've always prefered Austin, and they should have treated Austin as their main star in the nWo feud - not the Rock. They should not make the same mistake again. 2002 proved one thing - Austin = Ratings. Whether you like the guy or not, its irrelevent, Steve Austin is the biggest draw in wrestling history and it'll stay that way until he decides differently. They should stop pandering to Goldberg and the Rock, and bring back Austin. That is who the majority of fans want to see.

[Guest Downhome]

They should bring back Goldberg and job him out to Austin. It would show their biggest star was far superior to WCWs. I, for the life of me, do NOT understand why they would build a Goldberg vs. Rocky match. It would make far more sense to make it Austin vs. Goldberg. Its the match everyone has been wanting to see. The WWE thinks the fans are salivating to see the Rock again, and they couldn't be any further from the truth. The fans WANT Austin, they've always prefered Austin, and they should have treated Austin as their main star in the nWo feud - not the Rock. They should not make the same mistake again. 2002 proved one thing - Austin = Ratings. Whether you like the guy or not, its irrelevent, Steve Austin is the biggest draw in wrestling history and it'll stay that way until he decides differently. They should stop pandering to Goldberg and the Rock, and bring back Austin. That is who the majority of fans want to see.

Whoever Goldber faces first off, if he is signed, he will beat perfectly fairly. Whoever it is will repay the favor by cheating more than likely at the next PPV. If I had to choose, I would of course bring in Austin than Goldberg right now, as the fans would rather him be back. I like the thinking to save Goldberg for Summerslam, like someone has proposed over and over. There is no need to totally stack a single PPV.

[Guest geniusMoment]

I think there is one thing all of you guys are forgetting, if you are talking about serious injuries and who is responsible for them look no further than the crippler. Did any of you ever watch ECW he broke Sabu's neck by dropping him right on his head, guess what WWE still employs him. I guess he doesn't know how to time his suplexs either. Also earlier I explained it wasn't Goldberg that ended Brets career but the series of matches afterward which everyone ignored and they still blame Goldberg.

[Guest Brian]

I understand where you're coming from, but it's still two different situation. Benoit had werestled for some five years prior without delivering an injury and some almost nine years past. Goldberg, on the other hand had a reputation for dropping people on their head (the timing problem), for stiffing people up (another timing issue, but also not having the ability to snap his stirkes well), and for being careless in the ring. He had a rep for disliking the business and not respecting it, the polar opposite of Benoit. He was given everything and was green as hell.

[Guest The Czech Republic]

Not sure about that, but Meng did want Goldberg to die so that he may live.

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Guest Coffey]

Goldberg, on the other hand had a reputation for dropping people on their head (the timing problem), for stiffing people up (another timing issue, but also not having the ability to snap his strikes well), and for being careless in the ring. He had a rep for disliking the business and not respecting it, the polar opposite of Benoit. He was given everything and was green as hell.

That entire post was heresy.

[Guest Downhome]

I understand where you're coming from, but it's still two different situation. Benoit had werestled for some five years prior without delivering an injury and some almost nine years past. Goldberg, on the other hand had a reputation for dropping people on their head (the timing problem), for stiffing people up (another timing issue, but also not having the ability to snap his stirkes well), and for being careless in the ring. He had a rep for disliking the business and not respecting it, the polar opposite of Benoit. He was given everything and was green as hell.

Personally, I'm still waiting for someone to talk about who Goldberg has hurt any more seriously than what happens every week. I think the answer would be, hmmmm, 0.

 

You all have simply built up this false story about Goldberg, he did not nearly kill everyone he fought, that is pure lies to just try to hold up your stance on Goldberg.

[Guest Anglesault]

Personally, I'm still waiting for someone to talk about who Goldberg has hurt any more seriously than what happens every week. I think the answer would be, hmmmm, 0.

Well, there is that poor Limo. You don't see someone attack vehicles often. Wait. The car won that fight, didn't it? Didn't Goldberg get his ass kicked by another inatimate object as well?

 

Seriously though, I do recall meng and a lot of little things to various due to Goldberg not caring about his opponenets health.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I still have yet to see anything convincing that will indicate that WWE needs Goldberg, especially since Wrestlemania has already been sold out. The strongest argument is "it could work if it's booked correctly" which is the straw man of wrestling discussions and no longer valid in my eyes after it was used in a debate I was in a few months ago about friggin' JUSTIN CREDIBLE as a WWE main eventer.

 

Yes, WM X-8 did around a 1.6 buyrate, which WAS a dissapointment no matter what optimistic spin you can put on it. They were expecting a 2.0 at LEAST.

 

BTW, it's hearsay, not heresy. Heresy is what Joan of Arc was accused of.

[Guest TheAnvil]

First, for all of you that say that Goldberg won't lay down for anyone, and he's arrogant. Have any of you read his book? Have any of you researched his interviews and articles? I have. And, on more than one occasion, he has stated that winning and losing means nothing to him. The only time it bothered him was when Kevin Nash (fresh of becoming a member of the Booking Committee) ended his streak (a week after becoming a member of said committee). Why you ask? Why? Because he doesn't "love" the business. He has said several times, that this is just a job. He does what he gets paid for. If they say lay down, he lays down. It just happened that every night they said "squash".

 

As for Goldberg being sloppy...so is the Rock. Watch a Rock match closely. His sharpshooter is pathetic. Most of his moves are far from being a technical masterpiece. But, in the end, he puts on good matches. Goldberg can put on good matches. He's green. Give him a chance to learn, and he'll be able to work matches better. But, you've gotta let him work.

 

As for the wCw fans not returning, in reality, they never left. I am a big wCw fan. I preferred wCw to WWF when the nWo was in full force. Sure, there were down times...but there were up times as well. Not so say that I didn't watch WWF...I taped it. I watched Nitro live, then watched the tape of RAW later. I don't like to think in terms of wCw fan/WWE fan...I think in terms of "wrestling" fan.

[Guest Brian]

There was Raven, Meng, and Bret Hart which I know of for sure. I don't have the articles to back up my point so I'm going to phone in on the Observer show tomorrow since I have a lot of questions to ask about Mania imparticularly (call it an invested interest). I can't think of who but someone within the first ten matches of his win streak was dropped viciously low and another was welted from a few errant kicks. Once again, if I can get the facts together I'll put them up but I know what I've read and heard people talk about.

[Guest Brian]

I could use a date on this one, but Goldberg nailed La Parka (Good God, not La Parka) with a sloppy spear blowing out his knee and went on to brag about it next TV taping. This was early ninety-eight.

[Guest Downhome]

I just personally contacted Dave Meltzer about this entire "Godberg Rep" Situation, and he told me that the ONLY other injuries that Goldberg EVER inflicted upon anyone else besides Bret was that he fractured Scott Steiner's orbital bone and he gave Vince Russo a concussion.

 

He said that that injury to Scott Steiner is not really an uncommon one, and can not be blamed on anything other than bad luck, and the Russo one was simply because he went into the ring without an inkling of what he is doing, and that it was his fault. He told me that Goldberg was safe, did not have a reputation of "almost killing everyone" he wrestled, and so on.

 

I'm sorry people, but you all seem to be wanting to believe things that just is NOT true about the guy. Anything else you'd like to throw out there besides his "attitude"?

[Guest notJames]

This is all a moot point, since the two sides will never agree. Vince's "home-grown" policy will ensure that Goldberg has no chance of going over in any capacity, and Goldberg's "milk these assholes for everything they're worth" policy will ensure that his asking price will be too high for even Vince to shell out.

 

With Goldberg, there is no upside. To reiterate, he has no skills, no respect for the business, and no real name value with the few remaining fans that the WW_ has left. Besides, SafeCo's practically sold out already. Why spend X-million dollars to bring the green dickhead in?

 

People are talking about "if Goldberg is booked right" or "if Goldberg is given the opportunity" blah blah blah. Neither of those two things are a given. The writing squad sucks 15 flavours of shit, and that career-, morale- and interest-killing jerkoff will demand to only appear a handful of times at the most. Or more likely, fan interest will wane into the negative numbers once it becomes obvious to the unwashed masses that he both sucks and blows.

 

Bah. I hope they do sign him. And I hope all the disgruntled WW_ employees who see this for the collective slap in their faces that it is will shoot on his sorry greedy ass the first chance they get.

 

But my real hope is that we never have the need to discuss that asshole again. Ever.