Literary Kicks

[Guest snuffbox]

Heres a thread for, hopefully, discussion of good books. The classics or the counterculture, or anything else truly worth reading.

 

Who here has some opinions on the great works or authors? Gotta be a few readers in here!

 

Any thoughts on Tom Robbins, Jack Kerouac, or Ken Kesey?

[Guest red_file]

Tom Robbins - I was never much a fan of Skinny Legs and All, which seems to be most people's favorite, but Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates really struck me in the right way. Robbins is good when you want to read someone who has fun playing with words; he seems to be a guy who really enjoys the crazy ways language can be used. And while that's all good -- he's incredibly inventive and I wish I had half his wit -- I'm not really sure what he has to say. It's almost like he comes across as a more talented Fitzhugh. Very enjoyable to read, but not really amounting to much. Or maybe I'm just reading him wrong.

 

Jack Kerouac - I haven't read anything by him beyond On The Road and Dharma Bums, and those two novels didn't exactly make me want to go out and read anything else by him. I can see what others like in the books -- the detailed observations, the crazy life of the counterculture, the talk of spirtual enlightenment -- but, for me, the books were not very engaging and seemed a tad repetitive. In many ways he struck me as similar to Updike: a very talented author who was writing about things I had absolutely no interest in. Of course, I'm not really a fan of any of the Beats except for Corso (America's best forgotten poet), so that may factor in.

 

Ken Kesey - I've only read One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and I thought it was as good as everyone else thought it was. It was one of the few novels I can think of that portrayed insane people acting sane but also showing that they were out of their minds, and, at the end, there's no real heroes or villains; it's all sadly human. Simply amazing. I've heard good things about Sometimes a Great Nation, but haven't gotten around to reading it. Any thoughts?

 

How about Tristram Shandy, Haruki Murakami, A Confenderacy of Dunces, Harlan Ellison, Russel Edson, Umberto Eco, The Illuminatus Trilogy, or Joyce?

[Guest snuffbox]

Im going to hold off just a bit before any serious discussion of my readings, but I must say that Sometimes A Great Notion is the best book I have read. An amazing American epic, and Kesey is on par with Homer with this book. My opinion.

[Guest Mad Dog]

The Left Behind series is fairly good. Even if your not a Christian it is interesting to see what the post Rapture era might be like. Just don't get attached to any of the characters b/c they die often.

[Guest MaskedDanger]

My two cents:

 

A Fan's Notes by Fred Exley: the best novel I've ever read.

 

Nine Stories by J.D. Salinger: the best collection of short stories I've ever read. Changed my world.

 

Other authors worth reading: Raymond Carver, Nathanael West ("Miss Lonelyhearts" and "Day of the Locust"), Hemingway (I like his short stories better than his novels, but I'm reading A Moveable Feast now and it's really good), Fitzgerald (not just for The Great Gatsby either---his short stories are excellent), and Vladimir Nabokov (Lolita is so good and so fucking smart that it's scary).

 

That's all I can come up with for now.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

The Dice Man, by Luke Rhinehart. Concerning a man who decides to base every decision he has to make on a roll of the dice. I'd say it's in the spirit of Palahniuk, I view it almost as a companion piece to his work. I'm fascinated by the subject of suburban/middle/upper class boredom and decay, and The Dice Man deals with that subject.

[Guest LooseCannon]

Any thoughts on Tom Robbins, Jack Kerouac, or Ken Kesey?

Tom Robbins Jitterbug Perfume was an enjoyable and fun read but unfortunately it tries to have it's serious, and even, profound moments, but does not succeed. Robbins is an above average writer, but nothing particularly special. He fails whenever he tries to transcend the fun and the frivoulous.

 

Jack Kerouac. If you're incredibly curious, read On the Road or The Dharma Bums. But one's better off having never read anything by Kerouac. His style was captivating in its day, I'm sure, but like all things that are or were supermodern, it hasn't aged well. There's nothing else going for him beyond that.

 

Ken Kesey's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is a great book and a quick read. And the social commentary is as relevant today as it was then.

 

Also, like MaskedDanger said, Nathaneal West and Vladimir Nabokov are both great writers, and should be read by more people. Despair is even better than Lolita. And I'll also throw out Gunter Grass, particularly The Tin Drum. It's like a Brother's Karamazov for modern times, with the extra-bonus of actually being well-written.

[Guest AnnieEclectic]

I'm probably one of the least qualified here to talk about classic literature, American or otherwise, but two books always jumped right out to me when I looked at the topic.

 

They're the obvious two probably but the two best books I've read yet have to be

 

Catcher In The Rye

I love tales about the fine line between sane and insanity. I Am The Cheese always seemed like the "My Little Salinger" version of this book but it's a cute quick read too.

 

A Clockwork Orange

The horrendous edit of the last chapter is awful when you consider just how much greater the movie could have been with it included. Why did Kubrick use the American book version? Anyway, the expounded evils of the youth and redemption of Alex later on were a great read, even though it takes you a couple of chapters to get fully used to the Slavic slang used throughout.

 

Yeah, except for these two, "Old Man And The Sea" and "The Pearl" I don't have much else to add to this convo...

 

-Annie

[Guest red_file]

A Clockwork Orange

The horrendous edit of the last chapter is awful when you consider just how much greater the movie could have been with it included. Why did Kubrick use the American book version?

I disagree. The last chapter of the book always struck me as rather flat and at odds with the rest of the book. The books was essentially a parable about Christian free will and forgiveness. At the end Alex turns away from violence because he's growing up; as an adult he sees the folly of his previous life. While I suppose that works for what Burgess was trying to show, it left me unsatisfied.

 

Kubrick ending with Alex as a sympathetic figure was always far more interesting to me. The audience is intended to be outraged at the things done to Alex, while all the time he's the villain and is merely getting what he deserves. At the end there's a satisfaction that the system was unable to break Alex, but the satisfaction is tinged with knowledge he's planning new ultraviolence. Having Alex actually find redemption doesn't strike as interesting. But I'm in the minority on this opinion.

 

As I understand it, A Clockwork Orange was originally published in the United States without the twenty-first chapter, and Kubrick was only aware of the US version. I believe he'd said that had he known there was another chapter, he would've used it, but I'm not sure on that. I'm glad he didn't.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

I prefer the Chapter 21-less Clockwork much more than Burgess' outlook. Granted, it is his book, but I think that with 21, what's essentially a wild story about desire and systems that punish it becomes way too pat. I also like the movie more than the book, but I think I'm a rare exception there.

 

Gabriel Garcia Marquez's One Hundred Years Of Solitude is the best book you've never read. I recommend it to anyone.

[Guest LooseCannon]

Gabriel Garcia Marquez's One Hundred Years Of Solitude is the best book you've never read. I recommend it to anyone.

Wow, I was just thinking about getting around to reading that the other day. Hopefully I will soon.

[Guest notJames]

Here's a thread I started a while ago about great fiction. Hopefully it will help spark some more discussion.

 

Anyway, I've always regarded Tom Robbins as one of my favourite authors, and Still Life with Woodpecker is probably my favourite out of all of them. I tried reading Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas, but the whole second-person thing kinda threw me off. Perhaps when I have more time, I'll give it another go.

 

Speaking of which, according to Amazon.com, Robbins' latest book, Villa Incognito is slated to be released on December 31, 1969. Better fire up that time machine...

 

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is on my ever-growing to-do list, so I'll get back to you.

 

I haven't read Kerouac in a long long time, but I do remember liking Desolation Angels a lot during my early '90s poetry/spoken word phase. On the Road is also on my list.

 

Other authors I like are mentioned in the thread I suggested.

[Guest snuffbox]

The mention of I Am The Cheese...I think that Robert Cormier is definitly among the better fiction authors of all time. His target audience of 'young adults' does nothing to change that in my opinion. Th Chocolate War among a few others is quite the read.

 

The new Robbins book, Villa Incognito, will be out in May of this year. Having read all of his books, Im anticipating that day!!

[Guest AnnieEclectic]

Just another odd note, Burgess actually was very very embarassed as to A Clockwork Orange's success, and never meant for it to be as great as it was. He preferred almost all of his other work to it, but it's what he was most famous for.

 

Odd stuff, eh?

 

-Annie

[Guest snuffbox]

Cherub, Wisconsin

 

This is a short story I wrote, anyone care to read it go ahead, any critique or feedback is appreciated. Didnt want to start a new thread, this seemed like itd be appropriate enough.

[Guest Vyce]

I have a love / hate relationship with threads like this, because while I enjoy literature, it's ALWAYS the same handful of names which pop up.

 

"You have to read all of Kesey's books!"

"You know, I think Kerouac is one of the best of the century..."

"I've been re-reading all of Vonnegut's work..."

 

Boooooooring.

 

The work itself may be fantastic, but it just always seems like the same old, same old. I always like it when some newer (as in, more obscure, less well-known) books are discussed.

 

So, in keeping with that theme, I recommend to you Theodore Sturgeon's unique [relatively] modern vampire tale, "Some of Your Blood". A good, quick read that is considered by the HWA itself to be a true classic. The main character, "George", is such an interesting, tragic villain, that I can forgive Sturgeon for the harmless, though somewhat-silly in-joke as to George's real name (read the novel, you'll understand what I mean).

 

How about.......Harlan Ellison?

 

Arguably the greatest author of imaginative / speculative fiction, alive or dead. I'm a big fan.

 

I highly recommend his most recent collection, "Slippage". Especially the very beginning story, "The Man Who Rowed Columbus Ashore". It's a beautiful story that has been described as Ellison's "religious" tract supporting atheism (which sort of leaves me non-plussed, me not being atheist). It's a great story though, which will make you run the gamet of emotions.

 

The Left Behind series is fairly good. Even if your not a Christian it is interesting to see what the post Rapture era might be like. Just don't get attached to any of the characters b/c they die often.

 

I disagree.

 

I'm a Protestant, and I did my time in Sunday School, so I know a bit more about the book of Revelations than probably a not-particularly religious or atheist person does. So I have to agree when you say it's an interesting look at what the post-Rapture Earth would be like.

 

But after reading some of the books, I just had to put them down in disgust. The writing is HORRIBLE. Just AWFUL. It's amateurish at best. The plot is convoluted, the characters are either underdeveloped or just annoying, and worst of all, the style is insulting - the writing itself seems as if it's aimed at young adults (or perhaps that's just the level of skill exhibited by the authors).

 

You want to know how bad the books are? The only character I even remotely found intriguing was the Antichrist himself, Nicolae. And he's a piece of fucking Eurotrash.

[Guest MaskedDanger]

If you want to get into fantasy / horror literature a bit (and you want an oft-unmentioned name) let me enthusiastically recommend one Robert R. McCammon. Mystery Walk is an incredible horror novel with characters you really care about. The other stuff he's written has been good (especially Boy's Life, which is more of a bildungsroman, coming-of-age type story) but Mystery Walk was the first novel of his I read, and I'll always have a soft spot for it.

 

Oh, and for mystery, sci-fi and just weird shit in general, I have only two words for you: Fredric Brown. He was on a WHOLE different level than his contemporaries (the best way I can describe him is kind of like a really twisted Asimov) but, sadly, he gets overlooked by a lot of sci-fi fans today. His short, short stories (most less than a page long) are pure fucking genius.

 

And I mentioned it before, but for realistic fiction, it does not get any better than Frederick Exley. Easily one of the best contemporary writers we had (he died in '92, I think?) and one of the best fiction writers of all time. Frighteningly talented, but almost completely overlooked by anyone not plugged into a college faculty or the "literary world." Damn shame.

[Guest red_file]

I have a love / hate relationship with threads like this, because while I enjoy literature, it's ALWAYS the same handful of names which pop up.

 

Arguably the kneejerk reaction when someone posits the questions of what "literary" works you enjoy is to try to impress them with your knowledge of the classics. And then there's the fact, as you mentioned, that there usually is a good reason for the classics being well known.

 

The problem with introducing obscure writers/works is that it rarely engenders discussion. If you make a good pitch, someone will probably say something along the lines of, "Yeah, I'll have to get around to reading that," and that's the end of the discussion on that author/work. In that type of situation threads like these don't became anything more than recommendation threads. There's nothing wrong with that, I guess, but actual literary discussion could be a nice change of pace.

 

Unfortunately I haven't read the Sturgeon book you mentioned.

 

 

I highly recommend his most recent collection, "Slippage". Especially the very beginning story, "The Man Who Rowed Columbus Ashore". It's a beautiful story that has been described as Ellison's "religious" tract supporting atheism (which sort of leaves me non- plussed, me not being atheist). It's a great story though, which will make you run the gamet of emotions.

 

I'd've thought that "Scartaris, June 28th" would be Ellison's support of aetheism -- very similar to "The Man Who Rowed Columbus Ashore," but it makes the targets of religion rather clearer with making the priest on the plane look like a fool and actually having the main character be what happens to gods when they're no longer believed in (Ellison has used that idea before). "The Man Who Rowed Columbus Ashore" is the better story, but I don't really see how it's a support of atheism. Perhaps I'm merely missing something.

 

I always thought the best story in Slippage was either "Mefisto in Onxy" or "The Lingering Scent of Woodsmoke." "Woodsmoke" is a witty little story about how evil begets evil -- actually it's a rather slight story that's more amusing than anything, but there's a dark joy in it that makes it more enjoyable than a lot of Ellison's work. "Mefisto in Onxy" is simply an amazing novella about free will and mistakes, and it's made me add "a moment of human weakness" to the list of phrases I use with some frequency. The only thing about "Onxy" that strikes me as less than appealing is the message that is sent in the way that it ends; it seems to be espousing one message while actually showing another, very much less appealing one.

 

Angry Candy is an Ellison collection that's certainly worth picking up. It's probably better, story for story, than Slippage, with "Paladin of the Lost Hour," "Prince Myshkin, and Hold the Relish," "Soft Monkey," and "The Region Between" being examples of Ellison at his best.

 

Are the Edgeworks series still being published? Four volumes of great Ellison.

 

If you want to get into fantasy / horror literature a bit (and you want an oft-unmentioned name) let me enthusiastically recommend one Robert R. McCammon. Mystery Walk is an incredible horror novel with characters you really care about. The other stuff he's written has been good (especially Boy's Life, which is more of a bildungsroman, coming-of-age type story) but Mystery Walk was the first novel of his I read, and I'll always have a soft spot for it.

 

I've only read the aforementioned Boy's Life and found it to be rather good, though the book it's always compared to, Dan Simmons Summer of Night, was a more enjoyable read for me. Incidentally, I just finished reading Simmons' Carrion Comfort and I can say with confidence that it's the best telepathic vampire story I've ever read.

[Guest MrRant]

I suggest everyone pick up Donnie Brasco.

[Guest spiny norman]

I just finished The Stand (Stephen King). I can't reccommend it higher. Except everyone says it's his best book, and I prefer The Green Mile, but still, brilliant book.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

A Stone for Danny Fisher by Harold Robbins...I've pimped the book here a dozen times or so, but no one listens

 

I like the Long Walk best by Stephen King, also like Rage, you can find both of those in The Bachman Books

[Guest IPCRivalSchools]

I saw mention of Joyce's name earlier, and yes his books are great - especially Portrait of an Artist and Ulysses. If you liek that Stream of Concisousness style of writing - I recommend you ckeck out Flann O' Brian. The Third Policeman is one of the funniest and most surrealtl books I've read recently.

 

On an Irish writers tangent, I also recomment anything by Roddy Doyle - 'Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha' is funny and touching and well worth a read.

 

Also 'Troutfishing in America' by Richard Brautigan and 'Generation X' by Douglas Coupland are classic works as well - In particualr Coupland seems to serve as an obvisou setup for the world as it appears in Chuck Palahniuk's work.

 

Ian

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card is my personal favourite.

 

The rest of the books in the series seem to get worse each time. Speaker for the Dead is alright, but Xenocide and Children of the Mind are somewhat forgetful, though I'm in the process of re-reading them to better understand what DOES happen. Lord, it gets confusing.

 

The Shadow series are alright, but they seem to follow the same pattern. Ender's Shadow is good, but Shadow of the Hegemon was bleh. I haven't read Shadow Puppets yet though.

[Guest Vyce]

I'd've thought that "Scartaris, June 28th" would be Ellison's support of aetheism -- very similar to "The Man Who Rowed Columbus Ashore," but it makes the targets of religion rather clearer with making the priest on the plane look like a fool and actually having the main character be what happens to gods when they're no longer believed in (Ellison has used that idea before). "The Man Who Rowed Columbus Ashore" is the better story, but I don't really see how it's a support of atheism. Perhaps I'm merely missing something.

 

I'll take some quotes from the wonderful review written by K.C. Locke on the Slippage collection, taken straight from Ellison's website (well, a website that's closely associated with the ol' Luddite).

 

Here, Locke's reasoning as to why "The Man..." is Ellison's tract for atheism.

 

But seriously, folks, what first looks like the Mad Hatter's day-planner is, in point of fact, Mr. Ellison’s religious tract in support of atheism. Chosen for inclusion in Best American Short Stories, this is a gestalt piece, entire unto itself, despite what might appear to be stories-within-a-story. It all happens at once, liberally laced with the soothing, therapeutic liqueur of literary wish-fulfillment, bolstering the world-view that the universe, life itself, is a cosmic crap-shoot, neither good nor bad; it merely, utterly, is. And each should, nay can and must, be responsible only for him- or herself.

 

And now, some commentary on "Scartaris":

 

Harlan Ellison has tried to make it abundantly clear, over the course of his career, that he does not write sequels, refuses, is loathe to repeat himself. Yet, that seems to be precisely what he has done here. Please note my use of "seems" in that assessment. It’s too temptingly simple to declare that this story and "The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore," are different presentations of the same tale; I will not deny some similarities. In fact, I’ll share a little secret that Mr. Ellison shared with me: "Scartaris...," itself a maturation of what he took a run at in "Where I Shall Dwell in the Next World," is the story that touched-off a twenty-year-old fragment that blossomed into "The Man Who Rowed,..." Isn’t that interesting? Well, I thought so. The "Jules Verne" reference point was helpful, too— but is the protagonist, here, Levendis? No.......

 

I think this one is about the qualities that make us worth saving.

 

You can go giggle and hoot with your chums if you want. I’ll understand. Meanwhile, those of you who are too well brung-up to actually say "Schmontses!", let’s take a closer look:

 

"The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore" — earlier in the game, I cited Mr. Ellison’s declaration that this story was his religious tract in support of atheism, the idea that the Universe is random, is chaos, is neither good nor bad, but simply is, period. Apart from the gestalt literary wish-fulfillment, it’s a crap-shoot, and each must be accountable for himself.

 

And "Scartaris, June 28th" — many things happen, here; some more of that "literary wish-fulfillment," if you will. Laughter, danger, tears, mercy, introspection (does the Universe, blind and numb to its effects on its prisoners, contemplate itself?). Without exception, and unlike "The Man Who Rowed,...", the interactions are more benevolent in nature, even when they challenge and destroy creaky, narrow, old ideas and philosophies.

 

So yes, you're right - "Scartaris" deals very much with the same theme for atheism, it's just a more "mature" look into that theme. I feel that "Scartaris" is probably a softer, or as Locke says, a more benevolent look at the concept.

 

I enjoy all of the stories in Slippage, especially "Mefisto in Onyx" as well. I remember reading that by itself when it was published in novella form, with snazzy cover art by Frank Miller.

 

Angry Candy is another amazing work. "Paladin of the Lost Hour" remains one of my favorite Ellison stories.

 

Are the Edgeworks series still being published? Four volumes of great Ellison.

 

I don't believe they are. White Wolf was publishing the books, but I think that the production run has ended. You could check out their website, though: White Wolf Home Page. Check the books section and see if they're still offering the collections.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I've been feeling some John Irving stuff lately. I finished The Fourth Hand a while ago, and am currently in the middle of A Widow for One Year. Good shit so far, and Fourth Hand was excellent.

[Guest The Notorious CRD]

I'm a big fan of R.A. Salvatore's Forgotten Realms books. The adventures of Drizzt Do'Urden and friends never cease to keep me enthralled.

 

I also read anything that pertains to Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles even though the later installments don't hold up as well as the original books.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Pretty off topic, but nevertheless...

 

Does anyone know if there are any REALLY good book review sites around the net? I'm trying to read more, since I'm going to be doing English at uni in September, but I'm finding it hard to turn up good, new, books to read.