Where do we go now with Steiner and Benoit

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I don't know. The review I read on the observer site said that the crowd was into Steiner at first and then he just fell apart. It went on to say that people were booing Steiner...but not cheering for HHH.

[Guest candie45]

I didn't even hear the "triple h" chants. And I was watching with surround sound in a quiet room. I heard the booing after every time Steiner did a move (which was only a belly to belly). Myself and the people I was watching with were practically falling asleep- the highlight of the match for us was debating if Trips was wearing body glitter or if it was on the mat from the women's previous match. We thought the booing was because they were just as bored as we were.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Turn Scotty heel now. Not only is it the only compelling character he can possibly play, but obviously no one likes him at all as a babyface.

 

As for Benoit, hell if I know. Maybe he can go through an ultra depressive "I'm not good enough" stage until someone mentors him and gets him back on track. He could do lots of interviews talking about his failure to take the big win when it counts and such leading up to it. Then, you get someone to help him regain his confidence and finally make it. I remember a lot of people throwing around the idea of Arn Anderson managing him way back when, and although it was and still is a stretch for that to happen, I think a manager would be a possitive thing for Benoit.

 

I mean, it's either that or he goes back to midcarding, or worse, the dreaded "Taker Zone." And we all know where *that* leads to.

 

*EDIT* BPS: They were booing Steiner very loudly, but certainly not popping for HHH. Scotty was getting definite suck heat for being ultra-repetative and borring in the ring and blowing some spots horribly, mainly his tiger driver were he basically fell on his ass doing the move. By the end, thanks to Scotty's "dominating performance" and the terrible booking, the crowd was practically yelling "Fuck you" to the WWE and letting them know "this shit doesn't cut it anymore," in as plain of words as they could understand.

 

Don't want to sound like I'm over-reacting, but this is probably the biggest backlash from the fans since the Booker/Bagwell WCW Title match in '01.

[Guest Anglesault]

Most likely, Beniot goes over Matt Hardy at Mania.

Is the Brooklyn Brawler unavailable? Benoit got that response and you want to give him MATT HARDY?

 

I can see the WWF doing that. They did it to Angle. Let him get over, and then feud him with every conceivable midcarder in hopes of killing that heat.

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

I'd say move Benoit to RAW and have him take that title...since the SD! title is locked up for a while between Angle and Brock...

Agreed - big kudos to the Smackdown creative team, Benoit, Angle and Edge for all doing the seemingly impossible and getting Benoit over as a face.

 

Moving Chris to Raw and putting him over a heel HHH at Wrestlemania could well be the breakthrough needed to take Benoit to megastar status.

[Guest Mazelmavin]

What to do with Benoit and Steiner? I think its obvious what they will do.

 

Steiner turns heel, Benoit moves to Raw, and Steiner squashes Benoit repeatedly.

 

Problem solved.

[Guest Choken One]

What so wrong with Mattitude AS? He has good skills and has HELLA lot more Charisma then Beniot. I could see Hardy being built as a Bigger Heel.

 

However If Beniot stays with Smackdown, Why not just do us a favor and Have a 4 Way Tag Title Dance with Edge/Beniot Vs Eddy/Chavo Vs Haas/Benjamin Vs Cena/Redd Dogg.

 

I included Dogg and Cena because i HATE three way Tag matches unless TLC is involved. Besides I really like Cena's mic work so he can be fun for the buildup and then Beniot can gleefully slughter him instantly with a quick German workout.

[Guest Angle-plex]

What if, out of "respect", Steiner turned heel and decided to tag team with Triple H? The matches would suck, but since they're both roided up, WWE could build them up as an unstoppable duo. It could also breathe some life into the RAW tag team division.

[JasonX 0]

I mean, it's either that or he goes back to midcarding, or worse, the dreaded "Taker Zone." And we all know where *that* leads to.

That is what's most likely going to happen. UT will be paired off with Benoit who will be turned heel and given the gimmick of being a bitter never-was who is out to destroy the Undertaker who has won multiple World Titles and is "beloved" by all. And the feud will end with UT putting Benoit "in his place" by literally and storyline-wise, killing Benoit's career deader than the period in WCW where he was jobbed out after sleeping with Kevin Sullivan's wife behind his back...

[JasonX 0]

What if, out of "respect", Steiner turned heel and decided to tag team with Triple H? The matches would suck, but since they're both roided up, WWE could build them up as an unstoppable duo. It could also breathe some life into the RAW tag team division.

That might work especially if they do the right thing and move Benoit over to Raw. Feed BPP to Benoit at NWO and then have Benoit beat HHH at WM for the belt...

[Guest HartFan86]

The crowd was booing Steiner and chanting for Triple H before the bell even rang, so to blame his ringwork for the fans turning on him is kind of silly. The Boston fans knew who they wanted to win, and it was their hometown boy, Triple H. Like it or not.

Actually, we booed BOTH guys (I was there.) Steiner was getting heel heat before the match even started and once he kept doing the fucking belly to belly suplex, it just got worse. And HHH was booed cause the match sucked dick and he didn't help. Both guys were booed out of the building, as Keith stated in his review.

[Guest Brian]

Turn Rock heel, have Benoit interrupt about how he's not about this business and how much Benoit gave and rock just gets to waltz in and get everything handed to him, and go with Benoit/Rock.

 

Fuck Goldberg.

[Guest bob_barron]

They could always do Benoit v. Austin

[Guest Brian]

I want them to do Benoit/Austin. But they're already doing Austin/HHH.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Rock vs. Brock with a heel Rock would be better IMO. Since they have history and their last match was REALLY good. Have Heyman be rocks agent - make rock all hollywood. Then they could do a 4 way Feud with Benoit/Brock/Angle/Rock throughout the summer.

 

Steiner turning heel is probably the best thing to do. Have him beat up Booker T and put Booker over him at NWO or WM.

[Guest Brian]

Rock/Brock is down the line.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I can't stress how really freakin great Heyman has booked this feud. Not in the longest while has there been SO many possible feuds spawning from one storyline. I mean, Edge, Rock, Benoit, Big Show, Brock, Benoit and Angle are all possible ME feuds. Throw in Matt Hardy, Shannon Moore, Team Angle, Rey and Albert as secondary players and you've got months worth of shit.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I think that's looking for more depth than actually is there. Rock is a big possibility but what of those guys would draw against him? Brock's already been done recently, Angle would have to turn face which would hurt him, and the others aren't really any kind of babyface draws either. You've got Brock/Angle as an obvious choice, but what do the other guys do? You could run Benoit/Rock and play off of Benoit's current face heat, but that would leave Edge and Big Show with nothing to do besides get filled into the "Taker Zone" or feud with those secondary guys you mentioned.

 

I just don't see the genius in all of this by Heyman. Big Show has no credibility since dropping the title and now jobbing to Brock, so his only use is a revenge job to Taker. Everyone else has either been billed as "unimportant" or occasional JTTS when they're not working Velocity. I hate to sound like a pessimist, but I'm not feeling all the Heyman Luv like everyone else.

[Guest Choken One]

Yes of course Smackdown has been excellently written for the last four months sans one little blemish because of Paul Heyman’s ability to work with a limited roster. Here is the plan for Beniot and Steiner

 

The Rock WILL come back a face character (he has too) and we have to have him ease into Hollywood Rock. So likely at No Way Out (His return which is megahyped) he cuts a Brilliant Heel promo in Canada (he is already DISPISED in Canada, so why not do it there). Then he does his catchphase when Beniot's Music hits. Beniot cuts the promo of his life describing his affection for the fans (In CANADA, Sure to get Major Face heat). Rock calls him an nobody, Beniot calls Rock "Sell-Out". Rock laughs and walks away... Beniot gets the last word in "Go ahead and Walk away from me, just like you did to all your peoples".

 

Later that night Beniot whom was booked in a 8 Man Tag Match along with Brock, Edge and Mysterio against Team Angle and Show. Rock comes out and lays Beniot out with a Rock bottom through the Announce table. Rock leaves with a downpour of Heat.

 

ON Smackdown, The Rock kicks the show off, still thinking he is the people champion starts off identical to all his face promos but he unravels into Hollywood Rock. He makes toothless jokes and Midget jokes. Massive heat. Beniot comes out to a great pop and he basically rips into Rock as much as American Censors will allow. Beniot pops the question "Do You want prove yourself as a Wrestler? Then fight me at WM!" Rock declines the offer but Beniot jumps Rock and crossfaces him to a HUGE POP! Rock screams in agony as the officals pull Beniot off.

 

Stephanie signs the match at WM and issues a ZERO Tolerance policy. Beniot plays mind games as Rock plays the taunt game.

 

Wrestle Mania comes to town and they GO! With the world watching and Hollywood, Rock gives his great ring performence of all time giving Chris Beniot the ultimate rub as Beniot wins via Crossface after 22 minutes of Superb wrestling.

 

Chris Beniot goes on to have a quicky fued with a dethroned Kurt Angle and beats him at Judgment Day for the #1 title contendership at King of the Ring with Brock in a Respect Match. They have a great 15 minutes until Angle shows up and ruins it all. Angle-Brock-Beniot-Rock fight at Venagence, Brock manages to win but they make sure to illistrate that Beniot was screwed. Beniot and Brock sign to meet in a One Night Only showdown inside an Steel Cage at Slam...

 

Beniot goes over and Wins the WWE Title! He jobs it back to Kurt Angle at No Mercy.

 

as for Scott Steiner?

 

Tonight, They decide to blow off the fued with HHH next Monday in a NO Holds Barred Match, HHH wins but Steiner is smartly turned heel as he decimates HHH after the match is over and he cuts a "F-You, I am the genetic Freak big bad booty dada.". HHH rolls into his Austin fued to climax at WM.

 

Scott Steiner, now a Heel, quickly starts up a little riff raff with Kane and soundly puts him away at No Way Out. As a heel, he can pace the match better. Then Booker T enters the picture when intrupting a Steiner self-Masturbatary Promo and reminds him of their past (without directly saying "WCW") and Booker/Steiner is on like NECKBONE! A decent build up insues and Booker has a huge win at Mania. Steiner then demands a rematch and wins at Backlash and Booker-Steiner III goes down at J.D. Booker Wins. Steiner is plugged into a fued with World Champion Austin. They have a GREAT storyline and really push the envelop in interviews and promos. Austin loses at KOTR via No Contest after Steiner DISMANTLES Austin, they have a rematch at Venagence and Austin does a great carry job and emerges victorious. Steiner does a Quick Summer Slam program with The Dudley Boyz as he aligns himself with Batistia. They become champions and work well together for the next couple of weeks until a Falling out occurs between Steiner and WWE and Steiner is relased from his contract Mid September. Forcing them to rewrite the tag title scenes.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Ricky, your last name wouldn't happen to be Williams and first name John, would it?

 

Drawing isn't the main concern for the WWF - that ship has sailed a long time ago. What they need to do is build a quality product to plug the holes in their sinking ship.

 

They can EASILY do Rock vs. Brock again as they didn't milk a lot of it the last time they met. Look at it like Austin/Hart. The first part of their feud had Austin as the heel and Bret as the face. Would you just stop it at WM 13? No, of course not. The roles have reversed. Rock can come back and talk about how Brock got lucky, how he was concentrating on his next movie and not being in ring shape. Now it's not "The Next Big Thing vs. The Legend" it's "The Working Class Hero vs. The Hollywood Snob".

 

They could also do Rock vs. Edge. Edge would be a great foil for the snobby Rock character and vice versa. Edge is the young upstart, he loves the fans - he is a fan - and the Rock is the opposite.

 

Rock vs. Benoit would be the last of the three possible matches. It wouldn't be AS good simply because Benoit is the wrong sort of foil. He is hardworking, but he isn't a working man - if that makes sense.

 

Then there is Brock/Benoit/Angle. With those three personalities you could carry the feud over the whole summer and produce some memorable matches. Throw in Edge as the darkhorse and you got yourself storylines until 2004. Throw in the Rock and it could lead all the way up until WM. Albert, Team Angle, Mattitude, can all fill in the gaps.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Ricky, your last name wouldn't happen to be Williams and first name John, would it?

 

Drawing isn't the main concern for the WWF - that ship has sailed a long time ago. What they need to do is build a quality product to plug the holes in their sinking ship.

 

They can EASILY do Rock vs. Brock again as they didn't milk a lot of it the last time they met. Look at it like Austin/Hart. The first part of their feud had Austin as the heel and Bret as the face. Would you just stop it at WM 13? No, of course not. The roles have reversed. Rock can come back and talk about how Brock got lucky, how he was concentrating on his next movie and not being in ring shape. Now it's not "The Next Big Thing vs. The Legend" it's "The Working Class Hero vs. The Hollywood Snob".

 

They could also do Rock vs. Edge. Edge would be a great foil for the snobby Rock character and vice versa. Edge is the young upstart, he loves the fans - he is a fan - and the Rock is the opposite.

 

Rock vs. Benoit would be the last of the three possible matches. It wouldn't be AS good simply because Benoit is the wrong sort of foil. He is hardworking, but he isn't a working man - if that makes sense.

 

Then there is Brock/Benoit/Angle. With those three personalities you could carry the feud over the whole summer and produce some memorable matches. Throw in Edge as the darkhorse and you got yourself storylines until 2004. Throw in the Rock and it could lead all the way up until WM. Albert, Team Angle, Mattitude, can all fill in the gaps.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Choken One, what exactly about Smackdown has been wonderfully booked? Taking a look at where they were four months ago, we had:

 

*Brock as top heel managed by Heyman

 

*Undertaker as top face.

 

*Angle/Benoit/Rey/Edge/Eddy/Chavo booked in tags and floundering in the midcard and occasionally doing jobs to Taker/Brock.

 

*Lots of dead weight in the undercard not doing anything.

 

Now, we have:

 

*Brock as top face.

 

*Taker returning as top face.

 

*Angle as champ managed by Heyman and Benoit putting him over, with Brock being booked over Angle at every turn and Heyman still all over the show

 

*Lesbian angle involving Al Wilson's dead corpse.

 

* Another phony wedding

 

*Lots of dead-weight in the undercard, now including a few slugs here and there.

 

I'm not getting the "it's getting better" feeling here.

 

"Ricky, your last name wouldn't happen to be Williams and first name John, would it?"

 

Eh, Williams is hardly the biggest Heyman-hater on tOA. It seems to me that Frank and A.J. come down on him a lot harder. But I can see how would think his writing influences my opinion.

 

"Drawing isn't the main concern for the WWF - that ship has sailed a long time ago. What they need to do is build a quality product to plug the holes in their sinking ship."

 

I never argued against that. I just think that Heyman hasn't done a good job moving in that direction and that given the current build up Edge vs. Brock or Edge vs. Angle would be a bad idea for a main event feud.

 

"They can EASILY do Rock vs. Brock again as they didn't milk a lot of it the last time they met. Look at it like Austin/Hart. The first part of their feud had Austin as the heel and Bret as the face. Would you just stop it at WM 13? No, of course not. The roles have reversed. Rock can come back and talk about how Brock got lucky, how he was concentrating on his next movie and not being in ring shape. Now it's not "The Next Big Thing vs. The Legend" it's 'The Working Class Hero vs. The Hollywood Snob'."

 

*nod* that would be a good idea. However, I think the current booking situation makes Brock/Angle seem like a more realistic idea. Once Brock has gone over Angle, a feud with Rock could work, but if they have Brock suddenly forget about Angle it only makes Kurt look worse.

 

"They could also do Rock vs. Edge. Edge would be a great foil for the snobby Rock character and vice versa. Edge is the young upstart, he loves the fans - he is a fan - and the Rock is the opposite."

 

I dunno. As much as the fans have told Rock they're not behind him anymore, I have to wonder how long that would last with Rock vs. Edge promos happening all over Smackdown! Edge is a horrible interview, in my opinion, mainly because he overacts and tries too hard to be sarchastic and comes off as simply an obnoxious hyena who needs to be slapped around a bit.

 

Edge: "I have respect for you, Rock, always have, but lately, I gotta tell ya.....the only thing you've been "cooking" is a WHOLE LOTTA SUCK!!!!"

 

Crowd: *faint pop*

 

"Rock vs. Benoit would be the last of the three possible matches. It wouldn't be AS good simply because Benoit is the wrong sort of foil. He is hardworking, but he isn't a working man - if that makes sense."

 

The reason I suggested Benoit/Rock is because of the reaction Benoit recieved last night. Right now, they need to strike while the iron is hot, and if they ever want to do something with Benoit in the main event, now is the time. Benoit's got missing teeth and unkept hair, so that alone should justify a "common man" push for him against Cocky Rocky.

 

"Then there is Brock/Benoit/Angle. With those three personalities you could carry the feud over the whole summer and produce some memorable matches."

 

But Angle and Benoit is already played out quite a bit. I mean, Benoit has already pinned him and showed he can made him tap several times so there's not much use in a "revenge" submision win, is there? Angle was the underdog going into the Rumble, he got his clean win, and now I think it might be time to move on for those two.

 

Angle/Brock can last till mania, but logic shows that Brock goes over and while the feud might be able to continue a little after that, I don't think Heyman has ever showed the ability to book a long term feud that can last beyond one or two matches.

 

But then maybe that's Williams speaking for me again.

 

That leaves Brock/Benoit, which could be good for a spot pay per view, but with the WWE's track reccord, Benoit will have been sent crashing down the card by then. Maybe if he gets a good program for mania and comes off strong, he can fued with Brock, but I'm not sure that's going to happen.

 

More likely, he gets fed to the Taker Machine and we get Taker/Brock part III.

 

"Throw in Edge as the darkhorse and you got yourself storylines until 2004."

 

I think Edge needs a heel turn like Vince needs a kick in the balls. If they do turn him heel (maybe have him side up as a Rock fan boy?) I think he could work in feuds with Benoit (mania match?) and Lesnar, but again, that's assuming he gets turned heel and Benoit is still getting booked strong.

 

"Throw in the Rock and it could lead all the way up until WM. Albert, Team Angle, Mattitude, can all fill in the gaps."

 

Another variable is whether they should put Rock on Raw or Smackdown! With Taker returning to SD, WWE Creative may feel that Raw needs the star power more after HHH has failed to carry things.

 

As for Albert, flush him down to Velocity, he sucks. Team Angle should be given the Tag Titles sooner or later, but I don't see them touching the main event. Mattitude is undercard for life, I'm afraid.

[Guest HHHater]

Fuck Steiner. Flair was the only one getting a reaction in that match. Seriously, Flair stole the show...if that's even possible in a -* match.

[Guest Banky]

Fuck Steiner. Flair was the only one getting a reaction in that match. Seriously, Flair stole the show...if that's even possible in a -* match.

Explain to me:

 

a. How Flair saved the match?

 

b. Why this match was worse than a dud?

 

c. How this match was THAT bad? I'd give this match maybe * or a DUD but minus? C'mon, thats just being bias towards Steiner.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

You can give it whatever rating you want, but I'll just say that it was the quickest turning of a crowd on a babyface that I've seen since, well, probably Bagwell Vs. Booker on Raw.

 

I've seen plenty of shitty matches, but none that got so suck heat from the fans who were basically telling Steiner to "get the fuck out of here, because you suck!" in as plain a way as they could. Here's a guy who was brought in to save the company and be it's next Savior and here the fans are out-right rejecting it.

 

And it was a horrible match. Steiner used what? twenty overhead belly-to-bellys? The early portion of the match was all shitty clubberin that looked like something from a Kamala match and the gimick of HHH trying to run away from Steiner was as lame a cop-out as they could have produced for a match like this.

 

Saying Flair stole the show is crackhead talk, though, I'll give you that. Flair's convulsing manerisms at ring side only made the mess all the more obvious. It was ugly and no stooging Flair did could save it.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

I think Edge needs a heel turn like Vince needs a kick in the balls. If they do turn him heel (maybe have him side up as a Rock fan boy?) I think he could work in feuds with Benoit (mania match?) and Lesnar, but again, that's assuming he gets turned heel and Benoit is still getting booked strong.

Dude, Edge as Rock's fan-boy lackey would be totally awesome! I can so picture the two of them doing absolutely hilarious backstage stuff, they'd be a perfect tag-team for TV mains and Edge would make a great set-up man for The Rock, taking on all the guys that Rocky was just too busy, too big a star to be bothered with. They'd have to prove themselves against Edge before getting The Great One. That could be a great chance for Edge to finally get over, really, really get over with the fans as an annoying, insufferable heel. Could also give him that last little bit he needs to move up to the main event when he eventually turns on Rock. But, naw, forget it, it's just too potentially entertaining to happen in post-2001 WWE.

[Guest TheAnvil]

Actually, if you think about it, the match wasn't all that bad. We've suffered through much worse in our wrestling lifetime. C'mon, One Man Gang making it to the semi-finals in the WM tournament???

 

At least the match had psychology. Steiner clubbed the back, and rammed HHH into the ringpost and apron repeatedly, working his back. His belly-to-belly suplex also works the back. This all sets up his finish.

 

Now, I'll agree...he did far too many suplexes, and he needed some variety. So, he's working the back, and he goes to put on the Recliner, and nothing. He has never used the Recliner in the WWE, so half the crowd doesn't even know what is happening.

 

And, yes he lost his balance on the Tiger Bomb, but hey, it happens. It looked like Steiner put a little "extra" into it, and with HHH helping out, it put too much weight going backwards, and he toppled.

 

What the match lacked was HHH offense. It was too one-sided. (I never thought I'd see the day when I'd ask for more HHH *insert object here*)

 

Okay...what I would do from here on in. Build the Steiner/Batista feud, and have Steiner get the upperhand for the next month or so. Have Batista go over in a big way at WM.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

"At least the match had psychology. Steiner clubbed the back, and rammed HHH into the ringpost and apron repeatedly, working his back. His belly-to-belly suplex also works the back. This all sets up his finish."

 

The age old Sid Deffense. Execution plays a big part into the effectiveness of psychology. Every match has psychology, but how effective that psychology is depends on the impression they try to make and how they go about getting there. Steiner and HHH just didn't get there at all. I'm not even sure they got headed in the right direction.

 

How many belly to belly's did he use? How many of those actually looked like they could win the match? How many times does someone have to try and fail with a move before they try something else? Why didn't Steiner use something else to get the win, for the love of God? Why didn't he just go for the recliner? That's his big submision, right? If he can get that submision at any time and win the match, then why not win the match? Not only was Steiner ultra-repetative, but nothing he did looked to have a point, because the stuff he was doing was (i) never going to win the match and (ii) not familiar enough to get the crowd to pop for him. Not to mention his brawling sucked ass.

 

"So, he's working the back, and he goes to put on the Recliner, and nothing. He has never used the Recliner in the WWE, so half the crowd doesn't even know what is happening."

 

He could have gone for it earlier, HHH could have flipped out and ran away, and we would've at least known that it was a dangerous hold. They didn't even give us that.

 

"And, yes he lost his balance on the Tiger Bomb, but hey, it happens. It looked like Steiner put a little "extra" into it, and with HHH helping out, it put too much weight going backwards, and he toppled."

 

Some wrestlers can afford a slip-up or two in their matches and can recover quickly and keep the match moving. Steiner isn't one of those wrestlers, and after the way he had been performing, it just gave the fans more of a reason to boo him. Everyone knew he was stinking up the place, and they let him know.

 

"What the match lacked was HHH offense. It was too one-sided."

 

It was supposed to be HHH being overwelmed. Too bad Steiner stunk too much to carry a storyline as simple as that and HHH failed to use his "Flair-like skills" to make it anymore compelling. The little offense Crips did manage get little to no reaction, as opposed to outright negative reaction like Scotty.

 

"Okay...what I would do from here on in. Build the Steiner/Batista feud, and have Steiner get the upperhand for the next month or so. Have Batista go over in a big way at WM."

 

And who does that help? Steiner just got major suck heat, and Batista has more indifference from the crowd than just about anyone, so if you're looking for a repeat of last night's match, Batista is about the best one to do that with.