Austin Disses HHH In The New Raw Magazine

[Guest RickyChosyu]

"Austin's explosion/disappearance helped nobody..."

 

But didn't the WWE say in their official statement that "If you don't like it here, get the F Out"? Austin had expressed his dislike for the way the company was being run. By WWE rules, he was only doing what they expected any unhappy employee to do.

 

"...fucked up the company pretty hard for the next month...."

 

You can argue "Austin was booked as the centerpiece of the top fued on Raw" but I have trouble believing that Vince had a long-term plan for the nWo angle that required Austin to be around. Considering they were planning on jobbing him to Brock that week with zero build, I have trouble believing that their plans for Austin would have done much for business or helped solve their booking flaws that have plagued them for years.

 

"...left Eddy/Benoit high and dry (and thus took them an additional 6 months to be taken seriously,)..."

 

If the company wasn't willing to do something with Benoit and Guererro unless Austin requested them to, who's fault is that? Looking at how Creative handled them after Austin left, what would they have done after fueding with him? Clearly, the brief attempt to elevate those two was not a team effort, and if Creative had actually wanted to make something of Chris and Eddy, they would have had something better for them than feud with the Dudley Boyz.

 

"...and dumbest of all it allowed the company to paint Austin as a crybaby to the marks."

 

So anyone who leaves is a cry baby, but anyone who stays while unhappy with the company's direction is a "whiner" who needs to "get the F Out" right?

 

"Austin should have asked to be moved to SmackDown or something."

 

That would have been abbandoning his feud with the nWo and Guererro/Benoit all the same. It would also require him to refuse a job to Brock all the same. Who's to say they would let him do that? He was the biggest name on Raw, and booked as such.

 

"Instead he pissed on everyone, from the people who were paying him to the people who he was feuding with to the people who bought tickets and assumed he'd be there."

 

The people who were paying him were the same ones yelling "Good Riddence!" as he walked out the door. The people who went to that show had to be dissapointed that he wasn't there, but I would think they'd be dissapointed at seeing him job to a heatless and over-pushed Brock Lesnar, too.

 

"And now, with this column, more bitching and moaning and airing of backstage issues are appearing in the company line (TV shows and magazines.)"

 

The WWE didn't have any problem bitching and moaning on their TV shows and magazines after he left.

 

When did he ever bitch and moan on TV? Unless you count "Byte This" Austin never complained about the product on WWE TV. Unlike Rock and Foley, Austin never got a promo to air his feelings on the company's direction. As far as the magazine article goes, it's the WWE's choice to print it. They could have chopped it up or not printed it at all if they so wished.

 

"You guys are all happy about this just because Austin shares your Anti-HHH opinion and a fair number of you mark out for him..."

 

Actually, I was pretty borred with the Austin character before he left. Sure, I dislike HHH, but I'm not getting any kind of "buzz" after seeing Austin shoot on him.

 

Frankly, I think that it's a strong possibility that this is all just a work to set an Austin/HHH program, seeing as the article appeared in a WWE Magazine. They've come up with worse ideas (I do realize that's insane).

 

"...if you were more objective you'd see this smacks of WCW in it's death throes."

 

If you mean that in a "he's going into business for himself" way then I'd say you're wrong. It's not as if he's pulling a Hogan and going on his buddy's radio show to complain about the company. Goldberg did that as well. It's not like he's pulling a Bret Hart and writing his thoughts in a column WCW had no say over. Work or shoot, the WWE is allowing these coments to make press, so I have trouble assuming that he's "putting himself above the company" like the others.

 

However, if you mean that in a "They're trying to turn a shoot into a worked storyline" way, then I'd say you might be on to something there.

 

"We'll see what happens at No Way Out, but we're only this close [holds fingers apart] to Hogan and Russo bitching each other out on Bash at the Beach."

 

That's what I'm thinking, but again, I'm not sure we're on the same page. Are you saying that assuming that what Russo and Hogan said were unskripted shoot comments? Considering Russo had no problem airing skripted interviews that included "shoot" comments after that show, I have trouble believing that he and Hogan didn't plan the entire Bash debacle together beforehand. Russo currently books "shoot" promos every week, after all.

 

It wouldn't shock me to see a lengthy "shoot" promo between the two at No Way Out that reads exactly like this article we've just looked over. WWE Creative has obviously dropped to the point that "stealing from Russo" can't be too far off.

[Guest the pinjockey]

"Frankly, I think that it's a strong possibility that this is all just a work to set an Austin/HHH program, seeing as the article appeared in a WWE Magazine. They've come up with worse ideas (I do realize that's insane)."

 

This is why I didn't bother reading much into the excerpts, because this all just seemed too easy to reconcile without being setup for something. I have in the back of my mind an inkling that the whole thing was a work and the Debra stuff just pushed back the time table a little.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

When you factor in that Vince publicly told Austin he wasn't invited to the RAW X show, and HHH got up pissed off when Austin won superstar of the decade, it's just too odd of a coincidence.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

But didn't the WWE say in their official statement that "If you don't like it here, get the F Out"?

 

Even if you want to go by that, there's a difference between formally resigning and just taking off the next day.

 

You can argue "Austin was booked as the centerpiece of the top fued on Raw" but I have trouble believing that Vince had a long-term plan for the nWo angle that required Austin to be around.

 

Without Austin, Vince ran out of stuff for nWo to do, hit the Abort button, and started the GM storyline.

 

So anyone who leaves is a cry baby, but anyone who stays while unhappy with the company's direction is a "whiner" who needs to "get the F Out" right?

 

I think that speech is just as tacky as you do, seeing that Mr. "My Heart Is In This Business" was giving it.

 

That would have been abbandoning his feud with the nWo and Guererro/Benoit all the same.

 

That would have allowed them to give it a proper ending than "Uh, ooops..."

 

The people who went to that show had to be dissapointed that he wasn't there, but I would think they'd be dissapointed at seeing him job to a heatless and over-pushed Brock Lesnar, too.

 

Brock wasn't completely heatless (at least he wasn't the night of the speech, but he was fighting Oakland favorite Booker T) and was only a month away from getting heat. I would agree though that Austin/Brock would have killed all the suspense for Rock/Brock.

 

The WWE didn't have any problem bitching and moaning on their TV shows and magazines after he left.

 

I never said that doesn't contribute to the problem.

 

When did he ever bitch and moan on TV?

 

Presumably, Austin will air his grievances at No Way Out.

 

If you mean that in a "he's going into business for himself" way then I'd say you're wrong. It's not as if he's pulling a Hogan and going on his buddy's radio show to complain about the company. Goldberg did that as well. It's not like he's pulling a Bret Hart and writing his thoughts in a column WCW had no say over.

 

No, I mean it smacks of a WCW in a "We're talking about booking meetings, the storyline writers, and other locker room shit right out there on the stage" sort of thing.

 

When this company started to fall, I used to say "Don't worry, as long as we don't see the backstage politics make a direct impact in the product, it's not time to panic." When I say direct impact, I mean Hogan and Russo using a PPV to shit on each other or something like that.

 

With Austin's little Open Mic Night at No Way Out, we're tiptoeing dangerously close to the line.

 

I'm not sure we're on the same page. Are you saying that assuming that what Russo and Hogan said were unskripted shoot comments? Considering Russo had no problem airing skripted interviews that included "shoot" comments after that show, I have trouble believing that he and Hogan didn't plan the entire Bash debacle together beforehand.

 

Seeing that they actually sued each other afterwards, you're going to have to work pretty hard to convince me that Vince Russo and Hogan held up the courts and filed suit as part of an elaborate angle for a dead wrestling promotion.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

No mention of Stephanie? Curious, you would think if this were really a shoot shoot that her name might come up, either attached to his complaints about creative, Triple-H, or likely both. That she's not mentioned seems to confirm that this is just another Russo-fied angle set-up, where we're telling you the God's honest truth, except for all the parts that we're lying to you. Great so now we're going to get Austin vs. Triple-h and Vince. Good thing we've never seen that before, and now there's the added bonus of Triple-H barely able to move any more. Will he have drinking contests with Austin? And if they even mention the word "writer" in their promos, well, they might as well bring that fucking Russo back in and let a real professional handle an idiotic, business killing "well this is usually all scripted and fake, but not now, now it's for real. They're really going to fight, everything will be for real because they really, really hate each other and now they're going to settle it for real. Really. I know it just looks like they're putting on another fake wrestlling match, but it's for real. Listen to J.R. scream 'By God, it's a real steel chair to the head! That's not fake, folks!" over and over like he's Schiavone, doesn't that tell you just how real it is?" angle that does nothing but keep the same people we're tired of at the top of the card wrestling for increasingly idiotic reasons. Great. Looking forward to it. Thanks Vince.

 

[Guest HartFan86]

When did he ever bitch and moan on TV?

 

Presumably, Austin will air his grievances at No Way Out.

 

So you're assuming. Not a good thing...

 

You can argue "Austin was booked as the centerpiece of the top fued on Raw" but I have trouble believing that Vince had a long-term plan for the nWo angle that required Austin to be around.

 

Without Austin, Vince ran out of stuff for nWo to do, hit the Abort button, and started the GM storyline.

 

Austin had nothing to do with the nWo disaster...once Hogan was turned face at Mania, the heat was killed. Vince had plans for the nWo (Nash being the big monster), but once Raw is Quad II took place...that's why he hit the abort button and started the GM storyline....a month after Austin left.

[JasonX 0]

When you factor in that Vince publicly told Austin he wasn't invited to the RAW X show, and HHH got up pissed off when Austin won superstar of the decade, it's just too odd of a coincidence.

It was a worked shoot that would stand up on it's own if the Austin coming back fell-through.

 

After all, Vince's on-screen persona has had a long-standing grudge against Austin, so it makes sense that he wouldn't invite Austin to the Raw X ceromony. And HHH's character is that of a massive dickhead egomaniac who would walk out if he got passed over for Top Superstar of the Decade Award....

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Comedy doesn't build a hot PPV, but it can save a disasterous one. What I was really trying to say though, is that although they might as well drop the edgy stuff (because they just can't compete with Jackass and the like anymore), wrestling will always be bright lights, big crowds, and guest appearances on national TV. We're never going to go back to the old-school Flair NWA days again. Even if the WWE dies, someone else will take it's place eventually. But it's gotta be bankrolled by some downright huge pockets to get attention.

 

And what I am trying to say is that Comedy is not the answer because Comedy does nothing. It doesn't sell PPVs, it doesn't draw fans, it doesn't further storylines. The WWF has it in their collective brain that they have to be a sitcom, a drama, an action-adventure, a mystery, a soap opera, and all that crap. So what ends up happening is their sitcoms aren't funny, their drama isn't emotional, their action-adventure isn't exciting, their mysteries have the intrigue of a fishing boat, and their soap operas have enough plot holes to make Passions look like Citizen fucking Kane. Steve Austin pissing on Arn Anderson did nothing to help that feud - there was no need for it other than getting a cheap laugh.

 

It's The Marks, Stupid.

 

(Note: Not actually calling you stupid)

 

I don't get it. The marks are calling him a cry baby? Is that why they said "we want Austin"? Austin rebelled against the company because Austin is a rebel - that's how the fans see it.

 

Austin's explosion/disappearance helped nobody, fucked up the company pretty hard for the next month, left Eddy/Benoit high and dry (and thus took them an additional 6 months to be taken seriously,) and dumbest of all it allowed the company to paint Austin as a crybaby to the marks.

 

Oh come on. Chris Benoit was gone for a year, he gave his mind, body, and soul to the company and they give him NO montage, NO 'welcome back' ppv, NO build up and then they give him a FUCKING HEEL TURN. Benoit was DOA when he returned - Austin had nothing to do with it. As for leaving them 'high and dry' they were doing a Mcmahon/Austin angle all over again with Flair! They were about to job Austin to Lesnar in a throw-away match on RAW! The company had no solid direction, Austin saw this and didn't want to his name to go down with the sinking ship. When the biggest star in the companies history - a man who is getting paid millions of dollars - is leaving the something is wrong with the company. And you know what? Something was wrong with the company and something still IS wrong with the company. Time will tell if Austins return will help make things straight.

 

And don't tell me it's not a stretch to call him that.

 

I see nothing wrong with him leaving the way he did. But then again, I really don't like Vince McMahon so Austin could have done a lot worse and I'd still side with him.

 

There had to be more options. Austin should have asked to be moved to SmackDown or something.

 

Austin left after WM. They said they would make things better. They didn't and there weren't any signs that they would. It's as simple as that. It wasn't one storyline, it wasn't one job, it was the overall direction the company was headed./i]

 

Instead he pissed on everyone, from the people who were paying him to the people who he was feuding with to the people who bought tickets and assumed he'd be there.

 

I see it as the WWF pissing on him, and him pissing back. I put fault on the WWF.

 

And now, with this column, more bitching and moaning and airing of backstage issues are appearing in the company line (TV shows and magazines.) You guys are all happy about this just because Austin shares your Anti-HHH opinion and a fair number of you mark out for him, but if you were more objective you'd see this smacks of WCW in it's death throes. We'll see what happens at No Way Out, but we're only this close [holds fingers apart] to Hogan and Russo bitching each other out on Bash at the Beach.

 

The company is in trouble - Austin sees the problem, Heyman sees the problem, hell even Hulk freakin Hogan sees the problem. The only reason that problem is not solved is because of VINCE MCMAHON. I don't care what they have to do, but if it gets Vince to open his eyes then I am all for it.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

But didn't the WWE say in their official statement that "If you don't like it here, get the F Out"?

 

"Even if you want to go by that, there's a difference between formally resigning and just taking off the next day."

 

And by "formally resigning" you mean a round of jobs to various "stars of the future" like Lesnar and well, judging by the time period, Nash?

 

You can argue "Austin was booked as the centerpiece of the top fued on Raw" but I have trouble believing that Vince had a long-term plan for the nWo angle that required Austin to be around.

 

"Without Austin, Vince ran out of stuff for nWo to do, hit the Abort button, and started the GM storyline."

 

So Austin is expected to carry the company in the top feud, yet he's booked to job to Lesnar out of the blue?

 

"Does this make logic?" -- Konan (I know it's an overused quote, but if the shoe fits...)

 

That would have been abbandoning his feud with the nWo and Guererro/Benoit all the same.

 

"That would have allowed them to give it a proper ending than "Uh, ooops..."'

 

What I was trying to convey with my response to your complain on Benoit/Guererro was "after Austin, then what?" Judging based on how Benoit and Guererro were booked after Austin left, do you really think the WWE had plans to push them beyond a few token jobs to him? They were booked as unimportant from the get go, from playing second fiddle to the nWo to lossing to Flair.

 

The people who went to that show had to be dissapointed that he wasn't there, but I would think they'd be dissapointed at seeing him job to a heatless and over-pushed Brock Lesnar, too.

 

"Brock wasn't completely heatless (at least he wasn't the night of the speech, but he was fighting Oakland favorite Booker T) and was only a month away from getting heat. I would agree though that Austin/Brock would have killed all the suspense for Rock/Brock."

 

Brock's initial monster heel run was pretty disasterous. From the second Heyman had to save him from the Hardyz, you just knew the aura he had developed (mostly from killing jobbers) was gone. He rarely had any heat until the Summerslam match with Rock.

 

The WWE didn't have any problem bitching and moaning on their TV shows and magazines after he left.

 

"I never said that doesn't contribute to the problem."

 

And I never said you did. I just think people need to realize that it's mainly through the WWE that this issue has been dragged out the way it has. They've caved in with him because they still can't put down the bong long enough to book a decent show, and now they're letting him vent his frustrations to either (i) placate him or worse (ii) set up an angle.

 

If you mean that in a "he's going into business for himself" way then I'd say you're wrong. It's not as if he's pulling a Hogan and going on his buddy's radio show to complain about the company. Goldberg did that as well. It's not like he's pulling a Bret Hart and writing his thoughts in a column WCW had no say over.

 

"No, I mean it smacks of a WCW in a "We're talking about booking meetings, the storyline writers, and other locker room shit right out there on the stage" sort of thing. When this company started to fall, I used to say "Don't worry, as long as we don't see the backstage politics make a direct impact in the product, it's not time to panic. When I say direct impact, I mean Hogan and Russo using a PPV to shit on each other or something like that."

 

Alright, then I'm in agreement, for the most part. Of course politics are always a factor, but when they attempt to turn their woes into storylines it's never a good thing.

 

For example, Vince basically admiting that his prodcut sucks and ordering Bischoff to "make it better" or be fired. Instead of creating a storyline about Eric trying to "make it better" why not actually make it better with good booking?

 

"With Austin's little Open Mic Night at No Way Out, we're tiptoeing dangerously close to the line."

 

I'm assuming it'll be a mix of Austin re-hashing the complaints we've already seen and HHH airing his revisionist history about how great he is and how he's a "company man" while Austin is a "quiter."

 

Work the net, Trip. That'll get ya over.

 

"Seeing that they actually sued each other afterwards, you're going to have to work pretty hard to convince me that Vince Russo and Hogan held up the courts and filed suit as part of an elaborate angle for a dead wrestling promotion."

 

How did those law suites end up, anyway? I'm actually curious as I never found out. Considering this is Vinnie Ru we're talking about, I would never put "work" out of question.

 

Especially if I found out that they settled the law suites "out of court."

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I'm shocked the WWE would print this because worked, shoot or somewhere in between it highlights so many problems that are going on in the company it isn't even funny.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

I can't believe there is 3 Pages to this Thread since the Magazine hasn't even came out yet.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I'd like to see how many subscriptions there are to the WWE magazines in comparison to The WON and TNL newsletters.