The Infalibility of The Bible FAQ

[Guest Brian]

It's just a natural phenomenon with human as a whole. Jus the human mentality to explain things they cannot, to calm their fears. Whether it's animism or buddhism or christianity, it all serves the same purpose.

[Guest SP-1]

It's just a natural phenomenon with human as a whole. Jus the human mentality to explain things they cannot, to calm their fears. Whether it's animism or buddhism or christianity, it all serves the same purpose.

It's certainly your right to believe that, man. I'm not in the business of actively changing hearts, just trying to present the information and live well and letting God handle the rest. AND THAT'S A SHOOT, BROTHA~!

 

And Goat . . . I'm like Lance Storm. I take everything seriously. Except for those many, many times when I don't.

[Guest Brian]

God handling everything is extremely naive or else there wouldn't be so much widespread suffering around the world. With everything that goes wrong, especially in the church of all places, how can someone make that kind of statement? It's the same deal with God having a say in the bible.

[Guest SP-1]

First, I must wonder which church you speak of. Are you talking about the recent problems with the Catholic church? Because the rest of the Christian world does not answer to the Catholic church, and Rome is certainly not our capitol. That's an invalid comparison. I'm Christian, not Catholic, though there are certainly Catholics that are very much Christians. Does the Christian church suffer corruption? Yes. But so does the UN and all political governments. The problem comes with an individual's choice to stop following God and give in to his or her sinful desires. In which case their actiosn become individual and are no longer tied to the church, which is simply the body of believers. Again: invalid. If you go by those standards, we should all advocate carpet-bombing every man, woman, and child in a country with a single evil dictator or corrupt leadership.

 

You're blaming God for the actions of evil men. Men who have the free will to choose NOT to do the things that bring suffering to others. After the fall, everything changed. We are seperated. This world? It's going to pass away. The suffering that happens here is a natural by-product of evil passed down through the centuries.

 

Those that come to Christ find their relief. Do you expect God to give palaces and kingdoms to every man? God doesn't even give palaces and kingdoms to His own people. So please, don't bring such a low argument that God is to blame for all the suffering in the world. A spiritual being is to blame, that being the Devil. God takes His people and restores them, provides for them. Not in riches, for riches mean nothing in the end. But he provides survival, he provides life. He provides for the starving when they come to him. Why do you think missionaries go to these countries with medical, psychological, and physical aid? Why do you think that people that have it made here in the US leave to go and minister to people in countries where doing so can get the jailed or killed? Because God ignores them? Hardly. Because God is in them, because God compels them and provides the tools, the money, and the food to not only sustain them but to pass on to others. To provide.

 

Now, is it our fault that there aren't more people willing to give up their comfy apartment or house to go and dwell in the streets and camp and run from the authorities to bring good will and food and aid to people, REGARDLESS of whether those people hear the spiritual message that comes with it? We don't turn people down if they don't accept Christ. That's a bonus, something we take great joy in while selflessly serving others.

 

So don't blame God or his people for the world's suffering. We go out, we try. We sacrifice to take aid and the gospel out there. People may recieve the gospel, that's up to them and God, but they will recieve aid if we have it to give. And the people that hear the gospel will prosper well beyond a bite to eat or a bandage for a wound. From the moment they accept Christ they have a greater strength available to them in life, and have overcome the fear of death that had stricken them before.

 

So go spout that noise somewhere else, man. I've seen too many people sacrifice, heard of too many deaths and jailings for my brothers and sisters that God sends forth to provide for the starving and suffering to listen to that. I'm sorry if that's not something you want to hear or accept, but it's something I know to be true and with a little research you can too. One of my best friends risks his life for half a year every year to go and aid people on behalf of God who sustains him. So blame yourself and those around you that will bitch on an internet message board about it instead of going out and doing something about it. Don't blame God.

[Guest Brian]

Let me put it this way. If you were someone in Malaysia, working in some sweat shop 14 hours a day, barely making enough to eat, having to steal at times to stay alive, would you feel the same way about God? Gods and religion are just a way of humans, over time, dealing with their fears and lack of knowledge. People who couldn't explain lightning used to believe there were Gods sending it. We can't explain what happens after death, so we assign some value to our lives and hope it carries over. It's just a natural human reaction to life, that's happened over history time and time again. And especially when you're on a reward system, it tends to work.

[Guest SP-1]

The question is, do I know God? Do I know Jesus Christ if I am this person in this sweatshop? Have I experienced Him supernaturally? Or are you talking about believing in some abstract idol that someone tries to shove down my people's throats? Or just some perception of what a God should be that is given the all-encompassing label of, "God." That determines the outcome of this worker's outlook on life.

 

Also, Jesus lived. He walked among us. He touched people's lives, worked miracles, was recorded in history and His spiritual implications for the world were recorded by the disciples He taught and appeared to after he rose in Glory.

 

There's a big difference between me believing that a sock or a statue is a God if I'm this sweatshop worker, and knowing the life changing power of Jesus Christ. A big difference. One is having a perception of a god. One is knowing the living God and that He is good and will sustain me, and experiencing just that.

[Guest DrTom]

Brian's right, IMO: Man created God. It's not the other way around. Civilizations have been creating gods for thousands of years, generall to explain the unexplained. Where did fire come from? A god muyst have brought it! How did the world come to be? A god must have created it! It's been happening for ages and ages. Christianity just happened to spread and catch on.

[Guest Brian]

It caught on because it was based on a reward system that happened to offer something better than anything else available. Eternal life baby and for very little.

[Guest SP-1]

I'm not going to sit here and negate what I've presented before with a simple reiteration. You want to believe it's a reward system or that man created God as an out, then go right on ahead. That's a fine defense against Dopey, who will simply throw scripture out to you, or against Rob who will argue it to death just because.

 

But my above posts speak for themselves. I'm not in this for a reward or for greatness. I'm in this because I know God. I haven't had hints or picked scripture apart to suit my needs. I've come face to face with Jesus supernaturally. I can tell you that His smile will shake you to your very core on the day that you come face to face with Him. I can tell you that the day it happened to me, I couldn't open my eyes right away and my brow shook and my tears were hot and I was breathless.

 

But you just fall back to, 'You created him.'

 

I don't tell you these things with scripture, for I know that you won't try to comprehend it. I tell you my own living experiences with God because of how alien Scripture seems to most. I'm not going to read you what other disciples recorded, that is God's guide for those that pursue Him. I'm telling you what this disciple has seen. And countless others over time as God draws His people close. You can try to discredit that all you want, but the only people you're trying to really convince are yourselves. Your words are no match for hot tears and clenched eyes and the face of My Lord before me from that night, or the dreams or visions I've experienced since. So carry on. A petty argument over a reward system theory is a waste of my time and the board's bandwidth. My witness is in my posts above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, I hope you don't take this as hard feelings because I harbor none. I can leave the thread and it stays in here.

[Guest Brian]

That quarter I overloaded with psychology, sociology, and theology I would have loved to have known you.

[Guest SP-1]

The man that discipled me for a time is a Naval Chaplain, trained in psychology as well as an ordained minister. Psychology and Christianity can complement one another rather well. There was a time when it interested me to study psychology myself and become a counselor but my talents lie in other areas where I can still help others. There is a woman . . . I can't remember her name, I will post it later. She's a psychologist that applies Christian principles and calls on the power of Christ to assist people in her practices. She's not a nut or a kook. Her psychology is sound, but recognizes the power of a God that heals.

 

Believe me. I'm a pretty well rounded guy.

[Guest DrTom]

SP, I don't think anyone's trying to be petty here. I've lived on both sides of the fence, and (not trying to minimize or discredit your words) I've heard stories like yours before. I can't say I believed them when I had faith, and I certainly don't put any stock in them now. Again, I'm not trying to be petty: if that's what you believe, or what you know, and it keeps you going, great.

 

But look at it from the other side: every civilization has created their own gods. Why should the Hebrew god be the one who actually exists? What makes him more real than Zeus, or Raiden, or Quetzelcoatl, or Shiva? People have been inventing gods for thousands and thousands of years, and ascribing all kinds of wondrous and mundane feats to them. Only the Romans didn't come up with their own gods, since they basically stole all the Greek gods and renamed them (with good reason, if Eddie Izzard is to be believed, since "Jeff, the Gof of Biscuits" doesn't sound too important), and ended up going Christian anyway.

 

That's the point we're trying to make: as long as man has gathered into civilizations, he has created gods to go along with those civilizations and their beliefs. I'm not doubting that there really was a person going around preaching radical ideas about God and a New Covenant, and that he would have been put to death as a heretic circa 30 AD. I just don't believe he had any divinity attached to him.

[Guest SP-1]

And you certainly have the right to make the free choice to believe that. My experience and relationship with Him tells me otherwise, so I suppose it's just a further affirmation that it certainly isn't going to be settled here. As I've said before . . . I bring the information to bear, I witness. God's the one that has to do the work in people.

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

Well, here's my theory: We are (supposedly) created in God's image. Might we not be created in God's temperament?

 

Think of the last time you played Sim City. Did you load it up, and try to build a sprawling capitalistic society, or did you just set a few fires and down a few planes, just to watch everyone scramble around?

 

Maybe, just maybe, we’re the computer program that God boots up whenever he feels like blowing stuff up.

[Guest SP-1]

So could we then revolt like in The Matrix?

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

Yea, but when that happens, I suggest you stop playing Sim City, because they're coming after you.

[Guest SP-1]

With my luck my sims would be smarter than me. Turning off the computer wouldn't stop them.